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HanScottFirst

Snowtroopers - Targeting Scopes Auto-Include?

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So, base squad of Snowtroopers is 40 points, compared to 44 for the Stormtroopers. Both have e-11s and red defense die. 

It seems like Steady will be good for laying down suppression, but I do not see snowtroopers doing a ton of damage without Precise 1. So, do you throw targeting scopes on them for 6 points? 46 points versus 44 points for a base squad then?

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2 hours ago, AintNoPoser said:

Confirmed 40 points?

Oh! Good point. It looks like 40 in the preview, and TableTop Admiral squad builder has them at 40. But looking at it again, it could be 46 or 48!

Considering how slow they are, and not having Precise (though Steady seems good), I am guessing 40?

Not sure.

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3 hours ago, HanScottFirst said:

Oh! Good point. It looks like 40 in the preview, and TableTop Admiral squad builder has them at 40. But looking at it again, it could be 46 or 48!

Considering how slow they are, and not having Precise (though Steady seems good), I am guessing 40?

Not sure.

I am pretty sure that they are 40 points since Stormtroopers are 44 points. This matches up with Rebels being 40 points and Fleet Troopers being 44 points. 

Snowtroopers are quite interesting. I think a lot of people will be quick to saying that they are "slower" than stormtroopers, but I don't think that's necessarily true. In fact, they are faster in some cases. Remember that two movement 1 is further than 1 movement 2 therefore if Snowtroopers double move + shoot they cover more ground than storm troopers moving + shooting. Additionally, Snow troopers have access to Dodge + Move + Shoot and Aim + Move + Shoot which Stormtroopers lack. Stormtroopers are "faster" when they are moving + moving or if they dodge + move.

I think the biggest drawback to Snowtroopers is that they lack good special weapons. Their Ion weapon is just awful compared to the Rebel's variant and I can predict that their flamethrower will be a weaker version of what the AT-RT gets. 

 

 

 

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my problem with them is how do you justify them in any list thats not snow based, i mean my guys are based on an Arid environement and i know a lot of people are going for an Endor look, how do you then throw in Snowtroopers .

 

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33 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

my problem with them is how do you justify them in any list thats not snow based, i mean my guys are based on an Arid environement and i know a lot of people are going for an Endor look, how do you then throw in Snowtroopers .

 

military factions make mix ups all the time, there is a story about during ww1 i think that there was a village under siege and because it had the name castle in it's name they where sent solid shot for their cannons to break down the 'castle" that didn't even exist

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50 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

my problem with them is how do you justify them in any list thats not snow based, i mean my guys are based on an Arid environement and i know a lot of people are going for an Endor look, how do you then throw in Snowtroopers .

 

I justify it by destroying my opponent and them being unable to stop me from opening a can on them. Now if they are 40 points. My Vader/Veers/Walker list just got deadlier. 

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9 hours ago, Darth evil said:

my problem with them is how do you justify them in any list thats not snow based, i mean my guys are based on an Arid environement and i know a lot of people are going for an Endor look, how do you then throw in Snowtroopers .

 

I think for many people this is a board game first, a realistic simulation of a Star Wars ground battle second. I justify it by wanting to build the strongest army list and not minding too much if its thematic or not. 

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I'd say targeting scopes are not a first pick for Snowies. For me, they're a unit that doesn't much care about being suppressed, Steady as they are, and if they're not, they probably have places to go to with their tiny feet. So they'll be moving a lot, making them prime targets for... grenades, actually, the Concussion kind. Being able to ignore cover really hurts Rebels and anyone else with a fickle white die. Flamethrower will possibly do the same, but if looking for a cheap way to upgrade them, it's 15 points of extra body and some 'nades.

As for fluff reason to include them... y'know, "snow"trooper is just a name. Paint them in a desert camo, and they become a unit designed to operate in sandstorms or whatever :P

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I don't put the scopes on my rebels who have black dice that roll at least 3 blanks everytime (rerolls too)

My biggest problem with the snow troopers is that the stormies have way better movement and as far as we've seen special weapons.  You can paint snowtroopers as desert or swamp or whatever.  The only reason we have different troopers was so George Lucas could sell action figures in the early eighties.

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 4:56 AM, Darth evil said:

my problem with them is how do you justify them in any list thats not snow based, i mean my guys are based on an Arid environement and i know a lot of people are going for an Endor look, how do you then throw in Snowtroopers .

 

Im going to do mine in camo and call them Mudtroopers as all my figures are on a Endor base scheme

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I've got an arid mesa kind of theme with my bases that Snowtroopers will look fine on; if kind of silly in name.  They're definitely more "assault troopers" mechanically though.  They do seem like the game's best grenade unit.  They're slower than regular stormtroopers in a foot race, but faster while attacking.  I'd actually think they're a lot better than the regular troopers, but they don't appear to have anything as bonkers as the DLT.

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On 6.4.2018 at 10:42 PM, AintNoPoser said:

It would make sense for it to be that low. But, is moving and shooting better than getting an extra reroll?

When you think that you get a free aim token this way? Yes, i think they are better. Snowtrooper can aim, move and shoot. Stormtrooper need to stand still to get the aim token. In worst case they can move twice and shoot, this is stil better or more movement than the stormtroopers can. And they can do this even on difficult terrain. When Stormtrooper are reduced to speed 1, they already have this slow speed.
On the other hand the precise 1 only work when they have an aim token. But this does not happen when Stormtroopers have to move.

Even with speed 1 i might take snowtroopers over stormtroopers (if the cost of 40 is right).
And don't forget the insane abuse that you can do with it. Move out of full cover, fire, move back into full cover. Snowtroopers forcing the opponent into standby action.

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5 hours ago, Tokra said:

Even with speed 1 i might take snowtroopers over stormtroopers (if the cost of 40 is right).
And don't forget the insane abuse that you can do with it. Move out of full cover, fire, move back into full cover. Snowtroopers forcing the opponent into standby action.

Which balances out so nicely with the fleet troopers...I really hope the design stays this solid in waves to come. 

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2 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Which balances out so nicely with the fleet troopers...I really hope the design stays this solid in waves to come. 

No word about the Fleet Troopers. They are total overpowered :P. Two white dice for the same cost as Stormtroopers. Double damage for the same cost. Really not fair. And to top it, they have offense and defense convert. Thanks god they have only range 1-2. But they are, after all, really killers. 

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On 10.4.2018 at 8:06 PM, Tokra said:

No word about the Fleet Troopers. They are total overpowered :P. Two white dice for the same cost as Stormtroopers. Double damage for the same cost. Really not fair. And to top it, they have offense and defense convert. Thanks god they have only range 1-2. But they are, after all, really killers. 

...and the white defense dice, which is really bad when you have a unit who needs to get in short range. In the most cases you will get a free shot on them before they are in range, so I think they are strong but well balanced too.

The snow troopers are very strong melee unit in my opinion. Red defense, stable moving and firing (move 1 two times and fire is better than move 2 and fire), a flame thrower and for 55 points 5 trooper with conclusion grenades.

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Just, guys, stop dreaming, Snowtroopers will never be less than Stormtroopers, so they'll never be 40points for 4.

They are all the same, except they can move + shoot (so 3 actions) which make them better than stormtrooper in any situation (except, perhaps, weapon). And they are far better than Rebel troopers.

It's inimaginable. They are stronger raw in any situation than storm (except, yes, move + move). Each time a unit (for now) as a free action build in, they cost more than their "counterpart" (Fleet trooper and the free aim token on standby, Han solo and the 2 shots over Leia, Speederbikes and the compulsory move...).  They are less mobile in situation of move move, but can move move + fire (which is better in a lot of way), and can even aim + move + shoot. This plus the red defence dice. 

Clearly, they will not be 40pts. More like 48 for me. Or they will be a huge misconception problem.

EDIT : The 48pts is based on how much cost the ion rifle : 34pts. If Snowtrooper are 10pts each, this mean Ion rifle is 24, which is even worst than the rebels one. If they are 12 tho, this means the ion rifle is 22 (same as rebel's) and will be 1.375 hits stat (with surge) against the 1.5 hits stat of the rebel's, which is roughly similar. I mean, FFG are rules makers over minis makers. They know how to balance a game, not like a certain GW.

Edited by RaevenKS

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Hmm. All good points. In the blurry picture it could be 40 . . . or 48. 

Now that I've played a little more than when I first wrote the post, being able to move and shoot while surpressed is going to be really good. Or aim move shoot. We are used to Vader's R2 saber throw with speed 1, but the snowtroopers will have R3 with the E-11.  Speed 1 will be fine.

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16 hours ago, RaevenKS said:

Just, guys, stop dreaming, Snowtroopers will never be less than Stormtroopers, so they'll never be 40points for 4.

They are all the same, except they can move + shoot (so 3 actions) which make them better than stormtrooper in any situation (except, perhaps, weapon). And they are far better than Rebel troopers.

It's inimaginable. They are stronger raw in any situation than storm (except, yes, move + move). Each time a unit (for now) as a free action build in, they cost more than their "counterpart" (Fleet trooper and the free aim token on standby, Han solo and the 2 shots over Leia, Speederbikes and the compulsory move...).  They are less mobile in situation of move move, but can move move + fire (which is better in a lot of way), and can even aim + move + shoot. This plus the red defence dice. 

Clearly, they will not be 40pts. More like 48 for me. Or they will be a huge misconception problem.

EDIT : The 48pts is based on how much cost the ion rifle : 34pts. If Snowtrooper are 10pts each, this mean Ion rifle is 24, which is even worst than the rebels one. If they are 12 tho, this means the ion rifle is 22 (same as rebel's) and will be 1.375 hits stat (with surge) against the 1.5 hits stat of the rebel's, which is roughly similar. I mean, FFG are rules makers over minis makers. They know how to balance a game, not like a certain GW.

Well, they are 40 points. I'm not dreaming. Just look at the card... If they are 48 points, I promise you that no one will take them. 

The biggest drawback that everyone is overlooking is that their special weapons suck. They have 2 weapons that have 12" range and their slow movement will restrict getting these weapons into range.

As a result, you are stuck with a mediocre 5 White dice for 50 points.

EDIT: I can see them being a cheap infantry unit, but nothing more...

 

Edited by jbiondo

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2 hours ago, jbiondo said:

Well, they are 40 points. I'm not dreaming. Just look at the card... If they are 48 points, I promise you that no one will take them. 

The biggest drawback that everyone is overlooking is that their special weapons suck. They have 2 weapons that have 12" range and their slow movement will restrict getting these weapons into range.

As a result, you are stuck with a mediocre 5 White dice for 50 points.

EDIT: I can see them being a cheap infantry unit, but nothing more...

 

Even if they are 48, a lot of people will play them. They are far more versatile than what stormtrooper are. Stormtrooper seems more to be the long range unit, where snow are here to "charge" in the meat of the rebels, using their E-11 point blank.

And if the "biggest drawback" is their special weapons, tell me... tell me, first, how much distance cover 2 speed 1 move (+ base) + range 2 fire (compared to 1 speed 2 move + base + range 3 fire), and next, if their special weapons is that bad, and I used it to logicaly calculate the point, why do their will cost "that" much ? Comparing the rebel ion rifle to the imp ion rifle means :

Imp ion rifle got less hit stat wise. Shoot nearer. And you want it to cost 2 more points ? (because yes, if snow trooper are 10 each, then the imp ion rifle on them is 24, which is 2 more point than the 22 rebels one). This is not logical at all. 

Moreover, with the skill to aim and move and shoot, 5 white dices is not that bad (around 2.6 hit -and 3 with targeting scope-, the same amount as rebel trooper which can't aim + move + shoot and which are less tanky).

If they are 40, they will just cover all the list far too much (like 4 snow 2 storm), and people will play them even if they are 48 (because they are strategically better). Imagine the situation where a play do play with "stand by" (because yeah, I never see a single player in any of the battle report i saw/read use the stand by action), they can dodge + move to trigger standby + shot, all in the same turn. This is insanely stronger than what storm can do.

Edited by RaevenKS

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10 hours ago, RaevenKS said:

Even if they are 48, a lot of people will play them. They are far more versatile than what stormtrooper are. Stormtrooper seems more to be the long range unit, where snow are here to "charge" in the meat of the rebels, using their E-11 point blank.

And if the "biggest drawback" is their special weapons, tell me... tell me, first, how much distance cover 2 speed 1 move (+ base) + range 2 fire (compared to 1 speed 2 move + base + range 3 fire), and next, if their special weapons is that bad, and I used it to logicaly calculate the point, why do their will cost "that" much ? Comparing the rebel ion rifle to the imp ion rifle means :

Imp ion rifle got less hit stat wise. Shoot nearer. And you want it to cost 2 more points ? (because yes, if snow trooper are 10 each, then the imp ion rifle on them is 24, which is 2 more point than the 22 rebels one). This is not logical at all. 

Moreover, with the skill to aim and move and shoot, 5 white dices is not that bad (around 2.6 hit -and 3 with targeting scope-, the same amount as rebel trooper which can't aim + move + shoot and which are less tanky).

If they are 40, they will just cover all the list far too much (like 4 snow 2 storm), and people will play them even if they are 48 (because they are strategically better). Imagine the situation where a play do play with "stand by" (because yeah, I never see a single player in any of the battle report i saw/read use the stand by action), they can dodge + move to trigger standby + shot, all in the same turn. This is insanely stronger than what storm can do.

Their are several problems with Snowtroopers special weapons.

1) 12" Range with only movement 1. This isn't a huge deal, but it's definitely important to note. Getting into range will be difficult, but not impossible. 

2) Both weapons are awkward choices. The Ion weapon has been spoiled and it is the most unimpressive special weapon so far. 2 White Dice + 1 Black Die, 12" range, Impact 1, Ion 1, and it exhausts for 34 points... Compare it to what the Rebels have 2 Red Dice, 18" range, Impact 1, Ion 1, and it exhausts for 32 points... The other special weapon option hasn't been revealed yet, but we do know that it is a Flamethrower variant. Using the AT-RT Flamethrower for comparison, I assume it will be 1 Black Die per model in the defending squad, but will only have 6" range. I can't imagine that a handheld flamethrower will have further range than one on a mounted vehicle. We will have to wait and see the stats on the flamethrower before I'm confident on my assessment, but right now I'm doubtful.

From what I've seen proxying Snowtroopers, I'm never in range after my first movement with this unit. Either my opponent has cleverly positioned his squads out of range (forcing me to double move), or the target was already in range and shot my snowtroopers, thus giving them a suppression token. I first range all Snowtroopers and missed my DLT's. I then went down to 4-2 and felt the DPS was lacking. Now, I run 2-4 and the list is better, but I'm skeptical. 

Once you play with them you will  miss the consistent damage/suppression from the DLT. You will also miss movement 2 from stormtroopers (very helpful for capturing objectives and advancing).

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