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EliasWindrider

The Nubian design collective's whole vehicle crafting handbook

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 I think a mothership needs to be a limit to at most 4 modular pods of silhouette sil-1 or smaller or 1 modular pod of silhouette sil.  

Hp costing is the hard part.  And I need to limit the hp that modular pods have, they need a minimum of 2×podSil+3 (to get max bays/berths [assuming a transport hull and transport or bulk freighter hull], a single ion coil and )... but it's almost if pods can have hp based on whichever is smaller, their own silhouette or 4.

The rule would be something like, if designed in at the time of construction a mothership docking clamp costs 0hp but causes the vehicle's frame to provide hp as if it were the smaller of 4 and its actual silhouette instead of the normal hp based on its silhouette. The mothership docking clamp can also be retrofitted onto vehicles of silhouette 4 or smaller for an hp cost of one.  Mothership docking clamps can only be installed on silhouette 5 or smaller vehicles.

This has the advantage for fighters to get hyperspace capabilities for as little as 0 hp if they are designed to use hyperdrive sleds (assuming that they put a navicomputer or astromech droid in the sled)... but I'll need to revise astromech droid sockets to cost 1 hp in the presence of a hyperdrive or mother ship docking clamp but not a navicomputer.

The cost of a modular pod docking clamp is the silhouette of the modular pod, thus a silhouette 3 modular docking clamp would cost the same as a not discounted dedicated hanger bay but... for the extra cost you get to use the pod's systems which could include a gunnery droid brain i.e. a free attack with one of the pod's weapons.

So why would anyone ever want a modular pod larger than sil 4?  The enc provided by de dedicated cargo bays is exponential in silhouette for one thing, and other attachments (e.g. sil 5 allows light turbolasers, sil 6 allows medium turbolasers, sil 6 also allows weapon banks, or sil 5 on a ship of the line hull)

Not sure we need to make ship of the line hulls and mothership docking clamps mutually exclusive anymore.   Mothership should still be a frame not a hull.  A silhouette destroyer that spent 5 hp for a silhouette 5 modular pod say elegant design frigate... 27-5 = 22 minus 3 (single ion coil and 1 life support) is net 19 hp effectively gained.  We need to look more carefully at frigate hp to see cut that down but at the same time unless it has the ship of the line hulls it can't mount weapon banks and if it does use weapon banks it's limited to (quad) light turbolasers so 5x24/2= 60 light turbolasers for 5 hp is a "worst" case, compared to 40 (quad) heavy turbolasers (destroyer spending 5 hp on weapon banks) ... which actually seems really well balanced.  And they can swap that for 10250 enc plus 14 weapons, or carrying 250 sil of sil 3 or smaller (except 10 sil 4 shuttles, so 70 fighters and 10 shuttles or more likely 72 fighters and 8 shuttles, vs 5*65=325 total sil of vehicles of silhouette 6 or smaller, five of which could be sil 7, I am aware that this sidesteps the 2xsil limits on bays and berths, but with the limit of 4 modular pod docking clamps that's not horrendously abusable) plus 14 weapons.

 Yeah that works.  It admits sil 4 transports for at-at's and at-te's (sil 4).

Do we even need a mothership frame/hull anymore or does no more than 4 modular pods and the hp and size restrictions balanced things out?  The only problems are a space master built on a transport frame would have 30 instead of the official 25 htt but it's a really sucky ship so not a big deal.  And a ship with 4 modular pods could get 4 free attacks per round, sil 5 with 4 sil 4 modular pods with gunship hulls and 2 oversized weapon mounts each (to alternate on slow firing)could get 4 extra attacks with twin medium turbolasers per round for a cost of 16 hp. But they're only extra attacks if they didn't have enough crew to man the weapons in the first place, and it's costing a -4 penalty to handling to get that.  So not terrible.  I think that we have a ruleset.  I'll type it up.

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I think the abuse could come with Carriers being able to carry ships with pods in their hangar.

For instance, a Sil 6 Carrier can have 12 Hangars and can carry 12 Sil 5 Elegant Design Carriers, each that could have 10 Sil 4 Transports inside that have 4 Sil 3 ships with pods, etc.

So it's more a problem with the Hangars.

Also,  just a thought: What if the pods are limited to Sil 4 max?

Does that affect any existing ships?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, salamar_dree said:

I think the abuse could come with Carriers being able to carry ships with pods in their hangar.

For instance, a Sil 6 Carrier can have 12 Hangars and can carry 12 Sil 5 Elegant Design Carriers, each that could have 10 Sil 4 Transports inside that have 4 Sil 3 ships with pods, etc.

So it's more a problem with the Hangars.

Also,  just a thought: What if the pods are limited to Sil 4 max?

Does that affect any existing ships?

Sil 5 is needed, e.g. for the 10K tons or 50 passengers per module with 3 modules, ships.  And carrying ships in hangers with ships in their hangers is not an abuse limited to pods.  To an extent, i.e. drop ships ferry vehicles down from the big ships in orbit to the surface, it's actually intended behavior, and it's also less problematic with a sil 5 pod than a sil 5 non pod carrier starship.

This is less of a problem, because of a time factor launching twice from 2 hangers, but pods also don't need to be in hangers, and if the pod is docked on a modular pod docking clamp instead of in a hanger, it's contents only have to launch once.

Btw with the current rules there is nothing to stop a ship from having 4 sil-1 pods.  Not sure if you were clear on that.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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If you don't feel that it's a problem, then it's probably not.

As for being able to mount 4 × Sil-1 Pods, I did realize that.

I was just wondering if it was needed. Sort of a scaling thing.

I get that you have to be able to mount 1 pod of the same Sil (walker transport). I'm good with that.

I'm curious: are there ships that need to be able to mount 4× Sil-1?

If not, I'd consider lowering it to 2× (or maybe 3×) Sil-1.

Not a big deal either way, or even if you keep it at 4×.

😁

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11 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

If you don't feel that it's a problem, then it's probably not.

As for being able to mount 4 × Sil-1 Pods, I did realize that.

I was just wondering if it was needed. Sort of a scaling thing.

I get that you have to be able to mount 1 pod of the same Sil (walker transport). I'm good with that.

I'm curious: are there ships that need to be able to mount 4× Sil-1?

If not, I'd consider lowering it to 2× (or maybe 3×) Sil-1.

Not a big deal either way, or even if you keep it at 4×.

😁

The space master needs 4 at sil-2.  But the situation I was thinking of was sil 5 mothership with 4 sil 4 pods.  But maybe, 2 sil 4 and 2 sil3.  Concept is a freighter that can reconfigure into a warship, sil 4's needed for hangers, sil3 pods with gunship hulls and oversized weapon mounts could light turbolasers.  But with 4 sil 4's using transport hulls and gunship hulls and oversized weapon mounts you could mount two twin medium turbolasers on each and still have 3 squadrons of star fighters 3 sil4 shuttles, some cargo.

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@EliasWindrider

Okay. On further study, I think the Pods rules are fine. A Sil 5 Carrier/Transport would have to spend 16 HP to carry 4 Sil 4 Pods.

The same ship could have 10 Hangars for 10 HP and carry 10 Sil 4 Ships internally. 

I think that it's a fine trade-off for usability and versatility.

However: Between Pods and Space Stations, maybe reconsider adding a "Fusion Reactor" Engine with no Speed.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2019 at 6:28 AM, BannerGuard said:

@EliasWindrider

Do you have any rules for tracked tanks? I'm curious because I would like to build a t4-b and other tracked tanks.

Off the top of my head, I'd refluff a Walker, it should be pretty comparable in terms of rules/performance.  I'll look at it later to make sure it works but, I'm leaning towards adding a blurb for "if you want to make a tracked tank make a Walker and refluff it.  That said I haven't put a lot of effort into walkers so the rules for walkers might not be tremendous yet.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

Okay. On further study, I think the Pods rules are fine. A Sil 5 Carrier/Transport would have to spend 16 HP to carry 4 Sil 4 Pods.

The same ship could have 10 Hangars for 10 HP and carry 10 Sil 4 Ships internally. 

I think that it's a fine trade-off for usability and versatility.

However: Between Pods and Space Stations, maybe reconsider adding a "Fusion Reactor" Engine with no Speed.

The reasoning in my head, was without a pod having a means of locomotion you're going to need a very big forklift which in starwars would be something like a crane mounted fork lift at an awful lot of landing pads, and you're not going to have that if your switching out pods in an open field.  But then again we could add an optional mod to modular pod docking clamps that grants a tractor  beam projector.  Which might be a good idea for docking shuttlepods in general.  But really it's simpler to put an ion coil on each pod and drive offloaded "shipping container" pods to destination. 

Edited by EliasWindrider

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18 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

The reasoning in my head, was without a pod having a means of locomotion you're going to need a very big forklift which in starwars would be something like a crane mounted fork lift at an awful lot of landing pads, and you're not going to have that if your switching out pods in an open field.  But then again we could add an optional mod to modular pod docking clamps that grants a tractor  beam projector.  Which might be a good idea for docking shuttlepods in general.  But really it's simpler to put an ion coil on each pod and drive offloaded "shipping container" pods to destination. 

Considering how ubiquitous tractor beams are, I don't see it as a big deal. Modern day shipping containers are "Pods". They have no locomotion.

However, if you don't feel it's worth adding, I'm cool with it.

😁

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Considering how ubiquitous tractor beams are, I don't see it as a big deal. Modern day shipping containers are "Pods". They have no locomotion.

However, if you don't feel it's worth adding, I'm cool with it.

😁

Ubiquitous on civilized worlds, and then you still have to transport pod from starport to final destination.  Easier to slowly fly a sil 4 or sil 5 pod to final destination through coruscant traffic than a sil5 or sil6+ mothership. 

Edited by EliasWindrider

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So would people prefer I focus on Frigates, heavy cruisers, destroyers, star fighters, walkers, speeders or something else next?

BTW can someone try building the sentinel shuttle and zeta class heavy cargo shuttle?  I'm wondering if the recent changes to dedicated passenger berths affected the ability to replicate these.

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I'd like to see focus on more of the Sil 3 ships and smaller. Not only do I personally like them, I feel they are more likely to be made by Engineers in non-engineer campaigns. As they generally can be made in the downtime between other more general story lines.

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1 hour ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

The Sentinel Shuttle lists Encumbrance 200 (without passengers) and then 20 Passengers. 

This (to me) makes it seem like it's an either/or situation where 1 passenger uses up 10 Encumbrance.

How would you like me to stat that?

Doesn't the sentinel landing craft has 500 enc?  Can you see how close you can get to the enc while meeting the passengers, same for the zeta

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