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EliasWindrider

The Nubian design collective's whole vehicle crafting handbook

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2 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

Upon giving the Dedicated Hangar Bay table another look, I'd like to suggest the following changes:

Sil 1 --

Sil 2 --

Sil 3 +5

Instead of -- it should be +0
Also I think the size on Sil 4 should be reduced to +10. A Sil 4 ship is something along the lines of the Flacon.
Even the ghost is considered a Sil 5 ship, and it had a special construction to allow for just one tiny Sil 3 ship to be handled, as well as a few speeders on it.

Once we look at Sil 5+ though, the sizes of ships tend to vary wildly however. But for Sil 4 and smaller, it should be hard to fit anything else on them.
 

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@salamar_dree

I figured that most small speeders (air, land, bikes) wouldn't have any direct life support or food, but freighters and up have to have a minimum amount. Also, consumables represent how much fuel the vehicle has. So there has to be some minimum for consumables to represent this?

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@Gordian Naught

Only the Starship profiles include Consumables, not Vehicle profiles.

As such, I doubt that it refers to fuel, but instead the ability to keep the crew alive.

Just because Life Support is essential on a Starship, doesn't mean it is "free". Just like you have to use Hard Points to install an Engine (also essential), you have to use Hard Points for Life Support.

I believe that EliasWindrider took the need to spend HPs on Life Support into account when determining the starting HPs for the frames.

I hope that makes sense.

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Posted (edited)

@salamar_dree

The AT-EST exploration and survey walker out of the Edge core has a consumables value of one month. Everything that is space worthy and crewed has one if I remember correctly.

There should still be a base vale for it even if you don't take the life support attachment or mod the frame. Something in the line of maybe a base consumables = Sil in days of food for full crew and passengers and fuel.

That would fix the one month of consumables on all sil 5 ships, and the lack of one on most speeders and walkers is that they are never far from a city or settlement where they can refuel.

Edited by Gordian Naught
expanded explanation

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Thank you for pointing out the AT-EST!

I'm sure EliasWindrider will take your comments into consideration and decide how best to implement them.

Perhaps as Mods for the rest of the Hull types (like the Scout and Transport).

Cheers!

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Gordian Naught said:

This is something I might have been missing but, what is base consumables by sil or by frame?

The life support attachment maxes out at 400 days, per installation, for sil 10 vessels, are we to assume that all vessels have no base or that they have 1 free integrated Life Support attachment?

 

20 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

@Gordian Naught

Only the Scout and Transport Hulls have mods that increase consumables without purchasing Life Support.

As not all craft that can be made with these rules need Life Support (speeders, walkers, etc.), it's not automatic.

Cheers!

Also... vessels would have too many hp if they didn't have to spend them on things like life support.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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20 hours ago, Mon_Cal_Professor said:

Instead of -- it should be +0
Also I think the size on Sil 4 should be reduced to +10. A Sil 4 ship is something along the lines of the Flacon.
Even the ghost is considered a Sil 5 ship, and it had a special construction to allow for just one tiny Sil 3 ship to be handled, as well as a few speeders on it.

Once we look at Sil 5+ though, the sizes of ships tend to vary wildly however. But for Sil 4 and smaller, it should be hard to fit anything else on them.
 

Note the restrictions on the size of the vehicleS they can carry, at most 1 per dedicated docking bay can be sil-1.  The rest have to be sil-2 or smaller.  So... a sil 1 vehicle could carry at most 1 sil 0 vehicle... that's a folded into an enc 5 crate normally sil 1 speeder bike, a sil 1 cargo speeder bike/sled could be a seat in front of a small flat bed that could hold an enc 5 crate isn't unbelievable... but that's cargo rather than a hanger bay... so if we restricted dedicated hanger bays on sil 2+ vehicles (cause a speeder van could conceivably hold a sil 1 speeder bike in the back), but dedicated cargo bays allowed on sil 1 so that the aforementioned sil 1 cargo sled had a transport hull and 2 dedicated cargo bays for it's flat bed (whic means we're talking about 6 hp being needed to pull this off, 2 for asingle ion coil and 2 dedicated cargo bays at 2 hp each) then it could carry 1 enc 5 crate that unfolded into a sil 1 speeder.  So it really isn't all that abusable.

Dropships, are typically sil3-sil5 and are purpose built to carry "smaller" (not strictly true, e.g. I've seen drop ships for walkers that were a different shape but not smaller than the walkers that they were purpose built to carry) vehicles. 

But if you look at sil 3... it can carry 5 sil 1 vehicles (elegant design or folded speeders/speeder bikes) per dedicated docking bay or 1 regular speeder and 3 sil 1 speeders.  Even if a sil 3 dropship (as in purpose built to carry smaller vehicles) had 3 dedicated bays we're talking about 15 sill 1 speeder bikes (about the size of people) or 3 "cars" plus 9 sil speeder bikes.   That isn't all that unreasonable for a purpose built sil 3 dropship.  

Btw the ghost is on the boundary of sil 4 and sil 5 in terms of size and I'm of the opinion it should have been sil 4.  Any sil 5 vessel with I think 2 free hp can have a retrofitted hanger bay added to carry sil 3 vehicle.

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16 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Note the restrictions on the size of the vehicleS they can carry, at most 1 per dedicated docking bay can be sil-1.  The rest have to be sil-2 or smaller.  So... a sil 1 vehicle could carry at most 1 sil 0 vehicle... that's a folded into an enc 5 crate normally sil 1 speeder bike, a sil 1 cargo speeder bike/sled could be a seat in front of a small flat bed that could hold an enc 5 crate isn't unbelievable... but that's cargo rather than a hanger bay... so if we restricted dedicated hanger bays on sil 2+ vehicles (cause a speeder van could conceivably hold a sil 1 speeder bike in the back), but dedicated cargo bays allowed on sil 1 so that the aforementioned sil 1 cargo sled had a transport hull and 2 dedicated cargo bays for it's flat bed (whic means we're talking about 6 hp being needed to pull this off, 2 for asingle ion coil and 2 dedicated cargo bays at 2 hp each) then it could carry 1 enc 5 crate that unfolded into a sil 1 speeder.  So it really isn't all that abusable.

Dropships, are typically sil3-sil5 and are purpose built to carry "smaller" (not strictly true, e.g. I've seen drop ships for walkers that were a different shape but not smaller than the walkers that they were purpose built to carry) vehicles. 

But if you look at sil 3... it can carry 5 sil 1 vehicles (elegant design or folded speeders/speeder bikes) per dedicated docking bay or 1 regular speeder and 3 sil 1 speeders.  Even if a sil 3 dropship (as in purpose built to carry smaller vehicles) had 3 dedicated bays we're talking about 15 sill 1 speeder bikes (about the size of people) or 3 "cars" plus 9 sil speeder bikes.   That isn't all that unreasonable for a purpose built sil 3 dropship.  

Btw the ghost is on the boundary of sil 4 and sil 5 in terms of size and I'm of the opinion it should have been sil 4.  Any sil 5 vessel with I think 2 free hp can have a retrofitted hanger bay added to carry sil 3 vehicle.

That math only holds true if the Total Hanger Bay for a Sil 3 ship is +5, which is what is being suggested, not a +10 which is what is currently listed in the pdf. (Unless my copy is outdated?) Still, I do agree with all the math you posted, but that still fits in with using the lower numbers.

Also I also think the Ghost should have been a Sil 4 ship. No idea why it's considered Sil 5. The Dedicated Hangar bay you have could also have worked on the Ghost as it could have had 1 Sil -1 frame (aka the Phantom) and still have room for a few speeder bikes + all it's cargo. Still though, a +10 on a Sil 4 per Hangar bay would still allow the ghost to have both the Phantom (3) and 3 sil 2 speeder bikes, as well as 1 sil 1 folded speeder bike. I think this is more than reasonable for a single mod.

Although, talking about the Ghost did remind me of something: In Rebels we see multiple instances of magnetic tethers / docking clamps being used to allow ships to 'carry' ships that would normally not be able to fit inside it. A few examples include the CR-90 and Ghost both fitting A-wings to the docking clamps, as well as the Gazanti Classes which would docking clamp on 4 TIE fighters, and even the Arquentis later holding onto a few TIE variants in it's front dorsal area. Perhaps there could be some other modification which allows your ship to have external clamps to other ships to carry them around, at the risk that those ships are still 'target-able' in all circumstances. That would also fit the normal Dropships carrying larger walkers (such as the AT-AT or AT-TE carrying Airships)

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19 hours ago, Gordian Naught said:

@salamar_dree

The AT-EST exploration and survey walker out of the Edge core has a consumables value of one month. Everything that is space worthy and crewed has one if I remember correctly.

There should still be a base vale for it even if you don't take the life support attachment or mod the frame. Something in the line of maybe a base consumables = Sil in days of food for full crew and passengers and fuel.

That would fix the one month of consumables on all sil 5 ships, and the lack of one on most speeders and walkers is that they are never far from a city or settlement where they can refuel.

Given that vehicles need to spend hp to get an engine, it should also be expected that they need to spend hp to get life support.  SOME scout ships (scout hull with the modification) are an exception because they are purpose built to spend an exceptionally long time doing deep space exploration.  Some Transports (transport hulls with the mod) also are purpose built to move people a long distance.  These mods are meant to be used as boosts to certain purpose built ships not as baseline life support (although they could be used to save a few hp by not purchasing life support).  Also there is huge variability in the amount of consumables ships have, along with just about every thing else, one of the purposes of having a reasonably large "fixed" budget of hp to spend to purchase anything is to let ships be good at anything without letting any ship be good at everything.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Mon_Cal_Professor said:

That math only holds true if the Total Hanger Bay for a Sil 3 ship is +5, which is what is being suggested, not a +10 which is what is currently listed in the pdf. (Unless my copy is outdated?) Still, I do agree with all the math you posted, but that still fits in with using the lower numbers.

Also I also think the Ghost should have been a Sil 4 ship. No idea why it's considered Sil 5. The Dedicated Hangar bay you have could also have worked on the Ghost as it could have had 1 Sil -1 frame (aka the Phantom) and still have room for a few speeder bikes + all it's cargo. Still though, a +10 on a Sil 4 per Hangar bay would still allow the ghost to have both the Phantom (3) and 3 sil 2 speeder bikes, as well as 1 sil 1 folded speeder bike. I think this is more than reasonable for a single mod.

Although, talking about the Ghost did remind me of something: In Rebels we see multiple instances of magnetic tethers / docking clamps being used to allow ships to 'carry' ships that would normally not be able to fit inside it. A few examples include the CR-90 and Ghost both fitting A-wings to the docking clamps, as well as the Gazanti Classes which would docking clamp on 4 TIE fighters, and even the Arquentis later holding onto a few TIE variants in it's front dorsal area. Perhaps there could be some other modification which allows your ship to have external clamps to other ships to carry them around, at the risk that those ships are still 'target-able' in all circumstances. That would also fit the normal Dropships carrying larger walkers (such as the AT-AT or AT-TE carrying Airships)

Yeah I mentally typo'd the sil 1's because I had just come off the sil 2 speeder van.  Regardless, the limit on sil 3 drop ships is at most 1 sil 2 vehicle per dedicated bay, and the only sil 1 vehicles are the ones that started as sil 2 and have been elegant designed or have the folding design attachment.  So for 3 dedicated bays it would be 3 speeders and 24 half (or less) the normal size speeder bikes.  Which still isn't excessive.  The only reason for a sil 3 dropship to have 3 dedicated hanger bays is to be able to carry 3 sil 2 vehicles.  And there are two sil 1 vehicles in the game (a paraglider and a water vehicle) except by crafting or folding.  There is a folding (down to sil1) speeder bike in ghosts of dathomir and there is a folding speeder bike, the undicurr jump speeder in endless vigil, that doesn't have stats for the folding mode but since it's sil 2 we can presume that it's sil 1 when it's folded.

RAW says that all sil 4 ships have i think 2 magnetic docking clamps capable of pulling fighters through hyperspace.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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3 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Yeah I mentally typo'd the sil 1's because I had just come off the sil 2 speeder van.  Regardless, the limit on sil 3 drop ships is at most 1 sil 2 vehicle per dedicated bay, and the only sil 1 vehicles are the ones that started as sil 2 and have been elegant designed or have the folding design attachment.  So for 3 dedicated bays it would be 3 speeders and 24 half (or less) the normal size speeder bikes.  Which still isn't excessive.

RAW says that all sil 4 ships have i think 2 magnetic docking clamps capable of pulling fighters through hyperspace.

I still think that's rather large for a Sil 3 ship, since those are the range of most Star Fighters, and Larger speeders. The biggest speed barges (like Jabba's big Sandbarge, and the Jawa crawler) come in to Sil 4

The only Sil 3 ship I can find that has dedicated 'hangar' is the Guardian 5E Personal Defense speeder (Dangerous Covenants) which is capable of carrying a single speeder bike (Sil 2). I am curious what Sil 3 ship you had in mind for such a carrier role, since most seem like they'd fall into the Sil 4 category.

Also, do you know where that is listed? I've not seen that before, and it would be nice to know the page so I can make use of it.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Mon_Cal_Professor said:

I still think that's rather large for a Sil 3 ship, since those are the range of most Star Fighters, and Larger speeders. The biggest speed barges (like Jabba's big Sandbarge, and the Jawa crawler) come in to Sil 4

The only Sil 3 ship I can find that has dedicated 'hangar' is the Guardian 5E Personal Defense speeder (Dangerous Covenants) which is capable of carrying a single speeder bike (Sil 2). I am curious what Sil 3 ship you had in mind for such a carrier role, since most seem like they'd fall into the Sil 4 category.

Also, do you know where that is listed? I've not seen that before, and it would be nice to know the page so I can make use of it.

The reason this is a non issue is because there are almost no sil 1 vehicles in the game.  There's a water craft, and a paraglider.  There is also a speeder bike in ghosts of dathomir that folds down to sil 1, and the undicurr jump speeder in endless vigil that presumably folds down to sil 1.  Also people wearing jet packs and flight suits count as sil 1 vehicles but a hanger bay on a sil3 dropship holding 30 people is not an issue in my book.  So unless you're purposefully crafting extremely small vehicles for this thing to carry, 3 dedicated hanger bays means 3 silhouette 2 speeders or speeder bikes.  To my knowledge there is no such vehicle in the game yet, the closest analogs would be the hwk-290 (carries 75 enc), kst-100 (carries 70 enc) and the mandalorian super shuttle from friends like these whose name is something like Ak'jor but I never spell it right unless I look it up.  The point is for this to be a vehicle that a sil 5 ship that never lands carries in its hanger.  Why I care about this... I'm trying to do a better more general purpose job than ffg did.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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1 hour ago, Mon_Cal_Professor said:



Also, do you know where that is listed? I've not seen that before, and it would be nice to know the page so I can make use of it.

Not sure which you mean but now I'm thinking the clamps, I believe there's a side bar in the eote core that says this it's been a while since I looked.

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1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

Pg 258 (most rather than all)

Thanks.

Also on your prior point on Sil 3 and the Hangar Bays. I see what you mean, and I agree. I suppose I was just thinking about how it would work with the Folded speeder bike designs that could be made.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Mon_Cal_Professor said:

Thanks.

Also on your prior point on Sil 3 and the Hangar Bays. I see what you mean, and I agree. I suppose I was just thinking about how it would work with the Folded speeder bike designs that could be made.

If we took the speeder bikes from rotj and folded them in half wi the middle in the air and front and back down it would be about the size as a person standing up. Cramming 30 of those into a sil 3 drop ship is not an issue for me.  Of course this thing would then also need to carry crew for them, granted a transport frame with elegant design passenger quarters x2, integrated improvements x2 could have 16 passengers, and then the transport hull mod could double passengers again for 32 passengers (or you could have done officer's quarters to reduce passengers from 16 to 15 before the last doubling)

Ok so this just turned into an exercise to build a silhouette 3 military dropship that deploys 30 speeder bike troops on folding speeder bikes...

you would have spent 3 hp on an ion turbine engine and another 3 hp on 3 dedicated hanger bays you'd probably need 2 hp for 2 weapons (one on a turret for the second crew member), down to 4 hp, and one for sensors, down to 3 hp, 1 for +30 enc bringing enc to 50 (so they can carry gear).   Engine would be modified to increas speed to two, increase sst to 13, increase shield to 2/-/-/1.  Crafting twice to increase shields to 2/-/-/2 and speed to 4 (so 7 advantage on the engines), hull modified for the doubling of passengers, armor to 2, and 20 days of consumables.  Crafted to increase armor to 4 and handling to +1 (so after the next round of updates that's 10 advantage on the crafting check).  There's  2 hp left, plus possibly one extra from assembly.  So we'll spend 2 to add a hyperdrive and astromech droid socket (to get them out of a jam if the sil 5 ship they came in on went boom or had to with draw) and the final hp for a character scale heavy weapon to clear the area by the front ramp.

This would be a double decker boxy ship with a front landing ramp on the left side for a rapid deploy area for 12 troops next to a ladder to the second deck, there's a small cargo bay right 2/3rds of the front half.  The engines are in the back of the upper deck, with a turret mounted between and a little above them. Below them the back of the ship folds down... the hanger bay holds a 6 wide by  5 deep speeders. The cockpit has 1 pilot seat and an astromech droid socket and the rest of the ship hold 3 aisles of seats 5 men on each side of the 3 aisles of seats, they wear a back pack on their chest until they deploy and hold a rifle.  The fresher would likely be next to the front ramp (away from the passengers during flight).   Twin medium laser cannons facing forward  controlled by the pilot.

 

And that's a pretty maxed out sil 3 military drop ship.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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In my game I’d allow a folding or collapsible vehicle to be stored as cargo, but not flown/driven out of a hangar bay unless it can fit when deployed. The point of a hangar bay is that it can hold deployed vehicles (and work on them) and launch them directly).

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Posted (edited)

@EliasWindrider

I decided to try and craft a "Pocket Carrier" to see how the system holds up.

Transport Frame (Sil 4)
Crafting: Integrated Improvements ×2 (passengers) (4 Advantage)
Base HP 17

3/17 HP Ion Turbine Engine (Mods: +1 Spd, +0/+1 Def, +5 SST ×2)
Crafting: Enhanced Output ×2 (4 Advantage) 

Transport Hull (Mods: +1 Armor ×2, +1/+1 Def, +1 Handling)
Crafting: Layered Plating, Maneuvering Fins (4 Advantage) 

4/17 HP Hyperdrive (Mods: Primary Class 1, Backup Class 14)
5/17 HP Navicomputer
6/17 HP Life Support (Mods: ×3)
7/17 HP Sensors (Mods: ×3)
9/17 HP Two Quad Laser Cannon Turrets
10/17 HP Dedicated Cargo Bay ×1
11/17 HP Dedicated Passenger Berth ×1
17/17 HP Dedicated Hangar Bay ×3

End Result: 
Pocket Carrier
Sil 4, Speed 4, Handling +0, Armor 4, Def 2/2, HTT 20, SST 25

Crew 2, Passengers 31, Encumbrance 100
Hyperdrive: Primary Class 1, Backup Class 14
Navicomputer: Yes
Sensor Range: Extreme
Consumables: 2 months
Fighter Complement: 3 (Sil 3) Starfighters
18 (Sil 2) Starfighters (such as the Miy'til Starfighter from Keeping the Peace)

Now, for an extra 2 Advantage on the Frame Crafting and the Assembly Crafting, you can add Extra Hard Point ×2
For an extra 2 Advantage and a Triumph on the Hull Crafting you can add an Extra Hard Point and Integrated Systems (Dedicated Hangar Bay) ×1.

This would allow 1 extra Dedicated Passenger Berth (2 total) and 2 extra Dedicated Hangar Bays (5 total).

Increasing the Passenger complement to 46
And the Fighter Complement to 5 (Sil 3) and 30 (Sil 2).

Edited by salamar_dree

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16 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

If we took the speeder bikes from rotj and folded them in half wi the middle in the air and front and back down it would be about the size as a person standing up. Cramming 30 of those into a sil 3 drop ship is not an issue for me.  Of course this thing would then also need to carry crew for them, granted a transport frame with elegant design passenger quarters x2, integrated improvements x2 could have 16 passengers, and then the transport hull mod could double passengers again for 32 passengers (or you could have done officer's quarters to reduce passengers from 16 to 15 before the last doubling)

Ok so this just turned into an exercise to build a silhouette 3 military dropship that deploys 30 speeder bike troops on folding speeder bikes...

you would have spent 3 hp on an ion turbine engine and another 3 hp on 3 dedicated hanger bays you'd probably need 2 hp for 2 weapons (one on a turret for the second crew member), down to 4 hp, and one for sensors, down to 3 hp, 1 for +30 enc bringing enc to 50 (so they can carry gear).   Engine would be modified to increas speed to two, increase sst to 13, increase shield to 2/-/-/1.  Crafting twice to increase shields to 2/-/-/2 and speed to 4 (so 7 advantage on the engines), hull modified for the doubling of passengers, armor to 2, and 20 days of consumables.  Crafted to increase armor to 4 and handling to +1 (so after the next round of updates that's 10 advantage on the crafting check).  There's  2 hp left, plus possibly one extra from assembly.  So we'll spend 2 to add a hyperdrive and astromech droid socket (to get them out of a jam if the sil 5 ship they came in on went boom or had to with draw) and the final hp for a character scale heavy weapon to clear the area by the front ramp.

This would be a double decker boxy ship with a front landing ramp on the left side for a rapid deploy area for 12 troops next to a ladder to the second deck, there's a small cargo bay right 2/3rds of the front half.  The engines are in the back of the upper deck, with a turret mounted between and a little above them. Below them the back of the ship folds down... the hanger bay holds a 6 wide by  5 deep speeders. The cockpit has 1 pilot seat and an astromech droid socket and the rest of the ship hold 3 aisles of seats 5 men on each side of the 3 aisles of seats, they wear a back pack on their chest until they deploy and hold a rifle.  The fresher would likely be next to the front ramp (away from the passengers during flight).   Twin medium laser cannons facing forward  controlled by the pilot.

 

And that's a pretty maxed out sil 3 military drop ship.

 

13 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

Nice!

That's pretty cool.

Oops I did the hanger bays for one instead of 3 hp each... hazard of thinking that I can do this from memory... so ditch 1 of the weapons a cargo bay and... still not enough... I could fake it by adding an extra hp during frame or hull construction or ditch the hyperdrive and and astromech droid socket, or go down to basic sensors (close range), or this things not doable with halfway reasonable crafting checks.  I really have been debating about increasing the transport's hp by 1.  

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4 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

I decided to try and craft a "Pocket Carrier" to see how the system holds up.

Transport Frame (Sil 4)
Crafting: Integrated Improvements ×2 (passengers) (4 Advantage)
Base HP 17

3/17 HP Ion Turbine Engine (Mods: +1 Spd, +0/+1 Def, +5 SST ×2)
Crafting: Enhanced Output ×2 (4 Advantage) 

Transport Hull (Mods: +1 Armor ×2, +1/+1 Def, +1 Handling)
Crafting: Layered Plating, Maneuvering Fins (4 Advantage) 

4/17 HP Hyperdrive (Mods: Primary Class 1, Backup Class 14)
5/17 HP Navicomputer
6/17 HP Life Support (Mods: ×3)
7/17 HP Sensors (Mods: ×3)
9/17 HP Two Quad Laser Cannon Turrets
10/17 HP Dedicated Cargo Bay ×1
11/17 HP Dedicated Passenger Berth ×1
17/17 HP Dedicated Hangar Bay ×3

End Result: 
Pocket Carrier
Sil 4, Speed 4, Handling +0, Armor 4, Def 2/2, HTT 20, SST 25

Crew 2, Passengers 31, Encumbrance 100
Hyperdrive: Primary Class 1, Backup Class 14
Navicomputer: Yes
Sensor Range: Extreme
Consumables: 2 months
Fighter Complement: 3 (Sil 3) Starfighters
18 (Sil 2) Starfighters (such as the Miy'til Starfighter from Keeping the Peace)

Now, for an extra 2 Advantage on the Frame Crafting and the Assembly Crafting, you can add Extra Hard Point ×2
For an extra 2 Advantage and a Triumph on the Hull Crafting you can add an Extra Hard Point and Integrated Systems (Dedicated Hangar Bay) ×1.

This would allow 1 extra Dedicated Passenger Berth (2 total) and 2 extra Dedicated Hangar Bays (5 total).

Increasing the Passenger complement to 46
And the Fighter Complement to 5 (Sil 3) and 30 (Sil 2).

I was forgetting that integrated systems added +2 hp, that does seem excessive.  Where 4 dedicated hanger bays doesn't seem too bad as the most excessive.  What about a rule that the number of dedicated hanger bays is normally limited by silhouette but that restriction doesn't apply for carriers cruisers, destroyers, and space stations?

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For Integrated Systems, depending on your design intent, you could always change it to say "Install one vehicle attachment that requires 2 or fewer Hardpoints. No check is required to obtain this attachment and it costs zero Credits. Installing this vehicle attachment costs 0 Hardpoints"

This way you can still add the Integrated Attachment, without it just being a flat increase to Hard Points. Since the design intent of it in the book seems more that it is supposed to let you get a 'free attachment' rather than just adding more Hardpoints.

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1 minute ago, Mon_Cal_Professor said:

For Integrated Systems, depending on your design intent, you could always change it to say "Install one vehicle attachment that requires 2 or fewer Hardpoints. No check is required to obtain this attachment and it costs zero Credits. Installing this vehicle attachment costs 0 Hardpoints"

This way you can still add the Integrated Attachment, without it just being a flat increase to Hard Points. Since the design intent of it in the book seems more that it is supposed to let you get a 'free attachment' rather than just adding more Hardpoints.

That was the intent, but i think (memory unclear on this) it was also from a time where hp were more scarce, and it doesn't prevent someone from putting 5 dedicated hanger bays on a sil 4 ship.

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