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EliasWindrider

The Nubian design collective's whole vehicle crafting handbook

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The Assertor-class Command Dreadnought is a problem.

Handling -4 (2 worse than normal), Armor 13 (2 higher than max).

Needs 2 Advantage and a Triumph on the Frame.

Needs 14 Advantage and a Triumph on the Hull roll.

Crew is doable, with Integrated Impr., and 2 mods for double crew and + Sil HP (128000 crew vs. target 125000).

Weapons: 49 HP, Customization: 2 HP, Engine: 3 HP, Hyperdrive: 1 HP, Sensors: 1 HP, Hangars: 14 HP, Life Support: 4 HP, Cargo: 7 HP, Reinforced Frame: 14 HP.

+19 HP is gained from Frame and mods to Hull.

20000 Passengers is impossible to attain with VSL 80 per 2 HP (needs 250 Bays at 500 HP total).

After all the requirements, I can squeeze out 24 HP for Passenger berths. That is only 12 bays (960 Passengers).

@EliasWindrider

BTW: I feel that this ship should be left as an unattainable outlier. Trying to change your ruleset for this one ship seems like too much work for too little gain.

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1 hour ago, salamar_dree said:

The Assertor-class Command Dreadnought is a problem.

Handling -4 (2 worse than normal), Armor 13 (2 higher than max).

Needs 2 Advantage and a Triumph on the Frame.

Needs 14 Advantage and a Triumph on the Hull roll.

Crew is doable, with Integrated Impr., and 2 mods for double crew and + Sil HP (128000 crew vs. target 125000).

Weapons: 49 HP, Customization: 2 HP, Engine: 3 HP, Hyperdrive: 1 HP, Sensors: 1 HP, Hangars: 14 HP, Life Support: 4 HP, Cargo: 7 HP, Reinforced Frame: 14 HP.

+19 HP is gained from Frame and mods to Hull.

20000 Passengers is impossible to attain with VSL 80 per 2 HP (needs 250 Bays at 500 HP total).

After all the requirements, I can squeeze out 24 HP for Passenger berths. That is only 12 bays (960 Passengers).

@EliasWindrider

BTW: I feel that this ship should be left as an unattainable outlier. Trying to change your ruleset for this one ship seems like too much work for too little gain.

I was already planning to redo the passenger berths to something like 2^(sil-1), was planning on having transport hull, and space station frame increase that... need to do a better job with passengers for space stations anyway.

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The problem with the Silhouette system is that so many sizes of ships fall under each Silhouette.

The Assertor is easily twice the volume of the Home One, yet they're both Sil 9.

The M12-L Kimogila Heavy Starfighter is barely Sil 4, while the YT-1300 is solidly in the middle of Sil 4.

I wish there was a way to use those differences without overcomplicating the crafting system.

Now that I think about it, I guess the "Add Sil Hardpoints and Double Crew" Mods of some Hull types sort of fills this role. I did have to take that twice to get the crew for the Assertor close to the numbers.

Maybe call that Mod: "Increased Volume" or something.

Anyway, I'm just thinking "out loud" so to speak. Nothing in this post requires any changes to be made.

Cheers!

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Actually, I thought about it some more. Starting with Sil 6 and higher, add a Hull Size chosen when crafting the Hull. The default is as listed, but there could also be:

Light (-5 VSL, halve crew & pass, +1 Handling)

Heavy (+5 VSL, double crew & pass, -1 Handling)

This would affect the Hull cost, as it changes the VSL.

Worsen the base Handling ratings of these Sil ships by -1 as well.

The Home One would be Sil 9, Light.

The Assertor would would be Sil 9, Heavy.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, or even a good way to implement it, just throwing it out there.

 

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3 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

Actually, I thought about it some more. Starting with Sil 6 and higher, add a Hull Size chosen when crafting the Hull. The default is as listed, but there could also be:

Light (-5 VSL, halve crew & pass, +1 Handling)

Heavy (+5 VSL, double crew & pass, -1 Handling)

This would affect the Hull cost, as it changes the VSL.

Worsen the base Handling ratings of these Sil ships by -1 as well.

The Home One would be Sil 9, Light.

The Assertor would would be Sil 9, Heavy.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, or even a good way to implement it, just throwing it out there.

 

That sounds like a good idea to me, however that could possibly be implemented over all sil, not just 6 and up. It would require a fair bit of rework on the numbers of the smaller ships but it would make the ships more accurate I would think. Perhaps it could be a triumph option in the table? Seems to me that that would actually mean 3 different sizes of hull per sil though so is it adding too much complication to the build process?

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On 7/17/2018 at 9:40 AM, jayc007 said:

That sounds like a good idea to me, however that could possibly be implemented over all sil, not just 6 and up. It would require a fair bit of rework on the numbers of the smaller ships but it would make the ships more accurate I would think. Perhaps it could be a triumph option in the table? Seems to me that that would actually mean 3 different sizes of hull per sil though so is it adding too much complication to the build process?

Smaller ships have the raceship hull as a more appropriate stripped down option... you need it to make sil 3 intercaptors (speed 6)

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@EliasWindrider

I finally remembered to open Oggdude's Character Generator and see about adding a weapon with a turret to a ship. The program only required the 1 Hardpoint for the added weapon, regardless of whether it was turret-mounted or not.

I think that the Arakyd Missile Pack from Dangerous Covenants (pg. 60) is the only weapon system that specifically calls out that it costs an additional Hardpoint to be turret mounted (and even that seems strange, because if you don't give it a turret mount, it starts with a single FA, but it has a Mod to change the FA to "All").

I am still awaiting an official answer, so it could change, but I think that the default is "No additional cost" regardless of Firing Arcs/Turret/No Turret.

Cheers!

Edited by salamar_dree

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8 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

I toyed with the Miy'til Starfighter from Keeping the Peace. (Sil 2 fighter.)

You can actually build it with your current rules set (not likely, but possible)!

:)

cool, thanks... I haven't had time to work on it lately, family, job, and pbp keeping me crazy busy.  My son is now 1 year, 4 days, 5 hours and 19 minutes old, in other words he just had his first birthday for extra chaos.

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Trying to duplicate HT-2200 (which Fully Operational cannot get anywhere near, due to lack of encumbrance increasers), hope I haven't made any howling errors, first time through these rules.

730xp Mechanic (not totally crafting focused, but pretty darn good)

Dice Pool - 4 Yellow, 3 Green, 3 White, 4 Blue, 1 Adv, 1 Success -> 1 Adv, Reduce diff by 1, 1 re-roll per session

Freighter Frame
Sil 4, HT 10+VSL (25), Crew 2, Pass 4, Enc 20, HP 2+VSL (17), Cargo Bay 1hp, can get Integrated Improvements twice, 50k Cr

Base Roll (http://orokos.com/roll/649019) - 6 success, 3 adv, 2 LS, 2 DS - That's poor!
Adjusted Result, not using DS - 5 success, 7 adv

Larger Scope - Sil 5, Crew 4, Pass 8 (meets HT-2200 base), HT now 35, HP now 27
Extra Hard Point - HP now 28
Efficient Construction - Cost now 25k Cr

HT-2200 legendary for corners cut on engines, so:

Single Ion Coil
Speed 1, Def 0/0/0/0, SS 2xSil (10), Mod Options: 2 x +1 Speed, 2 x +Sil (5) SS,  2 x Aft Def +1

Base Roll (http://orokos.com/roll/649021) - 3 success, 8 adv, 1 tri, 3 DS
Adjusted Result, not using DS - 2 success, 10 adv, 1 tri

Enhanced Power to Deflectors (w/Tri) - +1 def to each zone (close to HT-2200 base)
Enhanced Output - Speed now 2 (meets HT-2200)
Fine-Tuned Circuits x 4 - Now 14 SS (meets HT-2200)

HP now 26

Freighter Hull
Armor 1, Handling -2, Mod Options: 2 +1 Armor, 2 x Inc Def in one Arc, 12.5k Cr

Base Roll (http://orokos.com/roll/649022) - 9 success, 3 adv, 2 LS, 3 DS - It's so bad I'll reroll
Base Roll (http://orokos.com/roll/649023) - 5 success, 8 adv, 4 LS, 1 DS
Adjusted Result, not using DS - 4 success, 14 adv

Layered Plating x 4 - Armor now 5 (At HT-2200 base)
Extra Hard Point - HP now 27
Cargo Pods x 3 - Enc now 785 (close to HT-2200 base)
Lessons Learned - +1 Boost next roll

Assembly
Team of 100, 125k Cr

Base Roll (http://orokos.com/roll/649024) - 5 success, 5 adv, 4 LS, 1 DS
Adjusted Result, not using DS - 4 success, 11 adv

Under Budget x 2 - Cost now 62.5k Cr
Ahead of Schedule x 2 - 600 hours to build
Improved Safety Features - Nothing else needed

Add Modules needed to make up missing stuff

Hyperdrive Module, modded once - 1 HP, 6.5k Cr, Class 3 Hyperdrive, Class 14 Backup (close to HT-2200 base)
Life Support Systems x 4 - 4 HP, 50k, 100 days consumables (close to HT-2200 base)
Navicomputer - 0 HP, 8k Cr
Sensors - 1 HP, 5k Cr Short Range
Dorsal Turrent Mounted Medium Laser Cannon - 2 HP, 8k Cr
Ventral Turrent Mounted Medium Laser Cannon - 2 HP, 8k Cr

HP now 17

So, we largely have an HT-2200, doing only one mod on one item.
Aft Def is 1 higher, Encumbrance 15 lower, Backup hyperdrive one better, 10 days more consumables.
Hard Points remaining is 17 rather than 5!
Cost is 186,000 rather than 140,000 (Cost of Life Support systems seems rather high?)

Of course, this is only one Mod, so numbers go considerably further up with modding, and I could use those 12 extra hard points for a crazy 12 extra cargo bays for an additional 12,300 encumbrance!! Maybe the cargo bays are a little large?

Edited by Darzil

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Can get very close to it with a Sil 4 version of HT-2200 with the same dice rolls.

I got to 705 enc rather than 800, same otherwise, but only 1 HP remaining (but no more mods made), and cost of 130,500.

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3 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

I'm still waiting for an official ruling on the Hardpoint cost (or lack thereof) for turrets.

(It's very frustrating that FFG seems to not prioritize Customer Service.)

Easy questions get answered quicker, they probably have a committee to decide rule questions they hadn't thought about before.  In the meantime their customers suffer and die while they discuss this in a committee, padme would call for a vote of non confidence. ?

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I think the handbook is a superb bit of craftsmanship. Keep it up.

I have a small suggestion for the collective. In fully operational and the handbook presented here there is, to me at least, a rather large omission in the engine section of the rules. "Power Cores" now every thing needs one but the oversight lies in the walker and wheeled landspeeder categories, they don't use engine's like Ion drives or Fusial Thrust engines.

The rules do have a special case in the Repulsor cluster that can't be used on starships. I propose 2 new entries in the Engines section, the "Fusion Core" & "Power Cells"

  • Fusion Core

Most common power generator throughout the galaxy, can be found in anything from a cooking unit to a AT-AT. This component can only installed into walker and wheeled landspeeder frames.

Material Price/Rarity:   1,500/2

Check:   Average Mechanics check

Time:   1.5 days (36 hours)

Base Modifiers: Installing this core component changes a crafts speed to 2, defense to 0/0/0/0, and system strain threshold to 4 x silhouette.

Modification Options: 1 increase speed by one (to a maximum of 4) Mod. 3 increase system strain threshold by silhouette Mods.

Hard Points Required: 2

  • Power Cells

Power cells are used in application that have size or weight limitations, only down side to cells is that they need to be replaced or recharged. This component can only installed into walker and wheeled landspeeder frames of silhouette 3 or less.

Material Price/Rarity:   250/1

Check:   Easy Mechanics check

Time:   12 hours

Base Modifiers: Installing this core component changes a crafts speed to 3, defense to 0/0/0/0, and system strain threshold to 3 x silhouette. On any Piloting (Planetary) check the GM may spend 4 threat or 2 dispair to have the vehicle looses all power and becomes motionless.

Modification Options: 2 increase speed by one (to a maximum of 5) Mods. 3 increase system strain threshold by silhouette Mods.

Hard Points Required: 1

Just my two credits. Any edits or suggestions appreciated.

Edited by Gordian Naught

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On 8/18/2018 at 8:17 PM, Gordian Naught said:

I think the handbook is a superb bit of craftsmanship. Keep it up.

I have a small suggestion for the collective. In fully operational and the handbook presented here there is, to me at least, a rather large omission in the engine section of the rules. "Power Cores" now every thing needs one but the oversight lies in the walker and wheeled landspeeder categories, they don't use engine's like Ion drives or Fusial Thrust engines.

The rules do have a special case in the Repulsor cluster that can't be used on starships. I propose 2 new entries in the Engines section, the "Fusion Core" & "Power Cells"

  • Fusion Core

Most common power generator throughout the galaxy, can be found in anything from a cooking unit to a AT-AT. This component can only installed into walker and wheeled landspeeder frames.

Material Price/Rarity:   1,500/2

Check:   Average Mechanics check

Time:   1.5 days (36 hours)

Base Modifiers: Installing this core component changes a crafts speed to 2, defense to 0/0/0/0, and system strain threshold to 4 x silhouette.

Modification Options: 1 increase speed by one (to a maximum of 4) Mod. 3 increase system strain threshold by silhouette Mods.

Hard Points Required: 2

  • Power Cells

Power cells are used in application that have size or weight limitations, only down side to cells is that they need to be replaced or recharged. This component can only installed into walker and wheeled landspeeder frames of silhouette 3 or less.

Material Price/Rarity:   250/1

Check:   Easy Mechanics check

Time:   12 hours

Base Modifiers: Installing this core component changes a crafts speed to 3, defense to 0/0/0/0, and system strain threshold to 3 x silhouette. On any Piloting (Planetary) check the GM may spend 4 threat or 2 dispair to have the vehicle looses all power and becomes motionless.

Modification Options: 2 increase speed by one (to a maximum of 5) Mods. 3 increase system strain threshold by silhouette Mods.

Hard Points Required: 1

Just my two credits. Any edits or suggestions appreciated.

Thanks for the compliments.  Th Single ion coil is pretty appropriate to these vehicles game mechanically if not in terms of fluff.   Fluff is fluff, you can safely ignore it if it doesn't fit and the game mechanics do.  I don't think duplicating mechanics for the sake of fluff is worth "wasting" space on the page.  That isn't meant as criticism just explaining my thought process.

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5 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Thanks for the compliments.  Th Single ion coil is pretty appropriate to these vehicles game mechanically if not in terms of fluff.   Fluff is fluff, you can safely ignore it if it doesn't fit and the game mechanics do.  I don't think duplicating mechanics for the sake of fluff is worth "wasting" space on the page.  That isn't meant as criticism just explaining my thought process.

Ok, thanks for the explanation. (Although I think they are a little more than "Fluff".)?

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@EliasWindrider out of curiosity, any new updates or alterations of late? It's been a while and I think it is close to completion. Any further changes are likely more polish than necessity. So with your busy schedule and chilli'n with the in-laws (which I totally understand, just had mine for 2 months) I realize you haven't had much time for this lately so just asking... ?

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11 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

@EliasWindrider out of curiosity, any new updates or alterations of late? It's been a while and I think it is close to completion. Any further changes are likely more polish than necessity. So with your busy schedule and chilli'n with the in-laws (which I totally understand, just had mine for 2 months) I realize you haven't had much time for this lately so just asking... ?

In laws left, munchkin is keeping me extra busy, end of Financial year crunch time/performance reviews, and because of that the repetitive stress injury in my wrists is acting up, and I'm in a play by post game, with regards to that arguing with Tramp is keeping me busy.  There are things I want to fix particularly with the massive (sil8 or 9) ships and space stations.

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On 9/12/2018 at 11:16 PM, EliasWindrider said:

In laws left, munchkin is keeping me extra busy, end of Financial year crunch time/performance reviews, and because of that the repetitive stress injury in my wrists is acting up, and I'm in a play by post game, with regards to that arguing with Tramp is keeping me busy.  There are things I want to fix particularly with the massive (sil8 or 9) ships and space stations.

So even busier than I was aware of. I hope you had a great visit with the inlaws at least... 

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