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Things you don't want to see in this game.

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The point made by Bdolfos is spot on. It is happening to Armada that they are starting to exhaust canon GCW era vessels. Without expanding deeper into the EU or adding different eras into the game the only way to release new items is repacking existing models with some differences or variations. Worked for the ISD but not likely to work for many other ship types in the game.

In Legion they could release every single stormtrooper variant but the design space likely isn't big enough to make them more than aesthetic and thematic choices. Still cool, but many players will run out of steam on buying that kind of product. FFG will have to decide how grandiose a game they are building because if it strictly follows GCW era Star Wars there won't be much more than a couple years worth of new content.

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13 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

4 would be good. In my opinion, the Clone War era is probably the only one I can see that would market well. The Republic had plenty of toys. They don't have to replicate the stormtrooper armor and can go with Phase 1 armor. The CIS has multiple vehicles and "troops" that would be fun to paint and roll out. Now they can't do the FO/Resistance currently, just because there's not enough out there to distinguish between troops with out repainting the Rebellion. 

Scum would kill the game purely because there isn't enough. There aren't enough iconic "heroes" for the scum. Also, it was very rare for them to team up. If you want a scum faction, better include Maul as a commander. Can't put in the Mandos because they were their own group. It's just a very wishy washy group that wouldn't do much or put up much of a fight. I purely play Imperials in all games, and I would hate to smash a "scum" player. It wouldn't feel good to me and I wouldn't have fun, and I know they wouldn't. To me, the scum faction is a pandering for money from FFG. 

Are not interested from a casual or competitive gaming standpoint?

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3 minutes ago, msg101 said:

Are not interested from a casual or competitive gaming standpoint?

I have fun playing both ways, but when I demolish my opponent, I'm not having fun, even at the competitive level. It's a faction just to have a faction. If it get's crushed every time, then no one will want to play it. 

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2 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

I have fun playing both ways, but when I demolish my opponent, I'm not having fun, even at the competitive level. It's a faction just to have a faction. If it get's crushed every time, then no one will want to play it.

Why do you think they wouldn't try to balance them?

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6 minutes ago, AintNoPoser said:

I have fun playing both ways, but when I demolish my opponent, I'm not having fun, even at the competitive level. It's a faction just to have a faction. If it get's crushed every time, then no one will want to play it. 

FFG will need to balance the meta. I see the concern about power creep and scum factions being more of competitive player issue.

I think the mechanics are scalable and the game has plenty of room for growth but at some point the game may need an overhaul (think PP or GW).

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5 hours ago, AintNoPoser said:

That would be way to many waves. 

The way yo release a new faction would be to have a Faction box that would have a Commander, a few corps, and a Support.  Maybe add a Special Forces or Heavy.  Make that one wave with the individual boxes as well and the new Faction would be almost caught up.  A Hutt Faction box could look like this:

Box release:

Jaba - Commander - 1

Hutt Cartel thug - Corps - 3

Gamorean Guard - Support - 1

Rancor- Heavy - 1

Simultaneous individual release:

Hutt Cartel thug

Gamorean Guard

Rancor

Boba Fett

This would create a Faction that is not only iconic from the movies, but could create a 800 point army with only needing to create 5 units.  It also brings in the well liked Bounty Hunters and such and leaves room to expand the faction with later releases.  If they stick this in instead of the Neutral releases after say a year they could maintain the release schedule for the Rebels and Imperials while working in the new Faction.

 

 

 

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I believe the Hutts would use their tails as a Melee weapon, so that's what I figured Jabba would get.  I had imagined that he would be on one of the bigger bases as well so speed 1 wouldn't be too cumbersome, but yeah he would be kind of tanky but not too much of a threat to people unless he got up close.  I also figured that being short range/melee but hard to kill would be the theme for a Hutt faction, so it would kinda fit in with that theme.

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I dont want it to be just Empire and Rebels, sure I love the Empire but I want to see CIS, Republic, First Order and Resitance (And maybe that could open a way for a "Scum" faction that some people want who knows *shrug*)

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17 hours ago, msg101 said:

If they are serious about the miniature space then I hope they will avoid the route of the games you mentioned. Core mechanics seem solid and scalable.

I think a lot of the meta in the game will be involved in selecting and using your command hand. Frankly, the rest of the game is not too different from other mini games once you take out special dice.

 

I'm not convinced to be honest.   FFG has done Runewars, Armada & X-Wing so far as collectible miniatures games and in all those cases they have added units that break the premise of the game and core rules of the game with certain units that basically say "these rules don't not apply to me" & "I don't care about the premise".  Not to mention the many LCG's and now the CCG in which they have done the same thing.  Its worth pointing out that this is a very common design practice as well in miniatures games in general.  Its really a rare case in which this sort of "super unit" doesn't eventually hit the table.

What is weird to me is exactly what drives design decisions like that.  I mean take for example the use of Flotilla activation spam in Armada.  Its been such a destructive component to the game and it took the community of all of 30 seconds to make it the overwhelming meta for the game completely decimating its core premise as a capital ship space combat game circumventing the need for capital ships or even the use of range with concepts like Relay.  X-Wing too is completely unrecognizable as dog fighting game, archs for example are practically unused in modern metas,  its been turned into a game of list building for dice manipulation, tactical position is also almost entirely irrelevant in the game at this point with modern lists.  These decisions seem completely reckless and destructive, yet they were added to the games anyway.

Given FFG's reputation I would say its very likely that they will do this with Legion as well.  They have already started doing it with Runewars as well.  I think the concern is pretty justified.

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2 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I'm not convinced to be honest.   FFG has done Runewars, Armada & X-Wing so far as collectible miniatures games and in all those cases they have added units that break the premise of the game and core rules of the game with certain units that basically say "these rules don't not apply to me" & "I don't care about the premise".  Not to mention the many LCG's and now the CCG in which they have done the same thing.  Its worth pointing out that this is a very common design practice as well in miniatures games in general.  Its really a rare case in which this sort of "super unit" doesn't eventually hit the table.

What is weird to me is exactly what drives design decisions like that.  I mean take for example the use of Flotilla activation spam in Armada.  Its been such a destructive component to the game and it took the community of all of 30 seconds to make it the overwhelming meta for the game completely decimating its core premise as a capital ship space combat game circumventing the need for capital ships or even the use of range with concepts like Relay.  X-Wing too is completely unrecognizable as dog fighting game, archs for example are practically unused in modern metas,  its been turned into a game of list building for dice manipulation, tactical position is also almost entirely irrelevant in the game at this point with modern lists.  These decisions seem completely reckless and destructive, yet they were added to the games anyway.

Given FFG's reputation I would say its very likely that they will do this with Legion as well.  They have already started doing it with Runewars as well.  I think the concern is pretty justified.

So... don’t play?

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4 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I'm not convinced to be honest.   FFG has done Runewars, Armada & X-Wing so far as collectible miniatures games and in all those cases they have added units that break the premise of the game and core rules of the game with certain units that basically say "these rules don't not apply to me" & "I don't care about the premise".  Not to mention the many LCG's and now the CCG in which they have done the same thing.  Its worth pointing out that this is a very common design practice as well in miniatures games in general.  Its really a rare case in which this sort of "super unit" doesn't eventually hit the table.

What is weird to me is exactly what drives design decisions like that.  I mean take for example the use of Flotilla activation spam in Armada.  Its been such a destructive component to the game and it took the community of all of 30 seconds to make it the overwhelming meta for the game completely decimating its core premise as a capital ship space combat game circumventing the need for capital ships or even the use of range with concepts like Relay.  X-Wing too is completely unrecognizable as dog fighting game, archs for example are practically unused in modern metas,  its been turned into a game of list building for dice manipulation, tactical position is also almost entirely irrelevant in the game at this point with modern lists.  These decisions seem completely reckless and destructive, yet they were added to the games anyway.

Given FFG's reputation I would say its very likely that they will do this with Legion as well.  They have already started doing it with Runewars as well.  I think the concern is pretty justified.

Don’t disagree with you assessment, just hope it’s not true.

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I actually look forward to Scum & Villiany

what I dont want to see as others have mentioned

  1. Non combat commanders.  I think Jabba would hire his commanders or use a lesser Hutt.
  2. i would like the current troopers to be the standard and not the entry level.  I don't mind alternate themes.  Space Marines come in all different colors and styles, so can storm troopers and rebels.  I dont want to see Stormtroopers a rarity in a year from now.
  3. X wings and Tie Fighters as playable units. They make great terrain pieces!
  4. I dont like Ewoks or Gungans, but I dont want to deny someone.  Just would prefer not to see them for a long time, if ever!

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I do not want to see any expanded universe, prequel, or new faction until there are 2-3 options for every type of unit for each army. We are getting there, but with the release of neutral stuff we do not need any other add-ons getting in the way of the original trilogy stuff. And honestly, there should be units for all the major battles in the OT, Hoth, Endor, and Tattoine. Maybe more too.

Edited by boogle22

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13 minutes ago, boogle22 said:

I do not want to see any expanded universe, prequel, or new faction until there are 2-3 options for every type of unit for each army. We are getting there, but with the release of neutral stuff we do not need any other add-ons getting in the way of the original trilogy stuff. And honestly, there should be units for all the major battles in the OT, Hoth, Endor, and Tattoine. Maybe more too.

I agree that there shouldn't be a new Faction released too soon.  The thing is that the Hutts are a large part of the OT.  I mean Jabba is the reason Han is so eager to make the large sum of credits that Luke and Obi-Wan is offering, and his motivation to help Leia.  In the Empire Strikes Back Hans storyline is still driven by Jabba in the sense that Boba Fett is hunting Han down. The whole first half of Return of the Jedi takes place in Jabbas Palace/sail barge.  You mention Tattoine as a major battle from the OT, that would be a perfect time to introduce the Hutts.  The Rebels and Imperials never fought each other on Tattoine in the movies, the Empire slaughtered Jawas and the Rebels fought Jabba.

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I don’t want factionless units. Watching a match where Luke hired mandalorions to fight Vader who hired mandalorians would look unforgivably... bland. I don’t want to see “which Jedi do I have lead my mercenaries?

 

This game’s mechanics are just a little too generic for me at the moment and I’m hoping new releases run with the core mechanics and provide something innovative (that would get me to buy in). If you lump bland armies on top of generic mechanics, I might as well not play. 

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8 minutes ago, Church14 said:

I don’t want factionless units. Watching a match where Luke hired mandalorions to fight Vader who hired mandalorians would look unforgivably... bland. I don’t want to see “which Jedi do I have lead my mercenaries?

I think they would make them special forces units. So it would limit them by army building rules. 

8 minutes ago, Church14 said:

This game’s mechanics are just a little too generic for me at the moment and I’m hoping new releases run with the core mechanics and provide something innovative (that would get me to buy in). If you lump bland armies on top of generic mechanics, I might as well not play. 

What makes the mechanics too generic?  

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29 minutes ago, draco193 said:

I think they would make them special forces units. So it would limit them by army building rules. 

What makes the mechanics too generic?  

Feels in a few ways like they removed a cover roll from Warhammer and reskinned it. I do prefer the differences compared to warhammer though. A flat damage reduction compared to a cover roll speeds things up a little.

 

The command cards feel like they’ve pulled hero/Commander abilities off of the unit itself and put it in card form. It allows for more powerful hero abilities as they can only be used once. So it doesn’t feel directly innovative, just a new twist on stuff I’m used to seeing.

 

I do like that outside of the command cards issuing orders, you have a semi-random activation order. That is appealing  

 

I do like the game. I just feel like I need them to step up and do something with some backbone. Luke, Leia, Han, Veers, and Vader are logical but uninspired choices for commanders. In Armada, they dropped Screed in wave 1. We had to go look up WTF that ship was and who he is. It was far more inspired/interesting than having a core set ISD. 

 

Releasing this game with Republic troops vs droids, then waiting for a while to drop Stormtroopers and Vader would have built some marketing excitement for this. People would look forward to seeing their favorites. Instead I get the board game quivalent of TFA. “Dot the I, cross the T, just don’t **** up.”

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22 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I don't want those Star Wars fans that ***** about everything and claim the OT is the best. The ones who claim Rey is a Mary Sue and JJ Abrams killed Star Wars. Community can make or break a game, and man, I just don't ******* care what your opinion is. Roll the dice and let me kill Vader. 

THIS!! This whole thread is an awful thing. It promotes hatred and distastes for people's ideas of what can be implemented into the game. It makes zero sense that people don't want to see certain factions or armies just because it would break their immersion or they wouldn't like it. That's such a silly argument. Let people want the troops and let FFG add them. Nobody says you have to play them and if you play against them who cares? You make the armies you want and play the ones you want. Let other people do the same.

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