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Jturn314

Incident in local escalation league. Your input is appreciated.

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So my LGS just finished a four round escalation league with 150, 180, 210, and 240 points levels. $15 to enter, $60 to first place, and two $30 slots allotted for "Most improved" and "Best Sport." We played one game every week and a half or two, to give all the different schedules time to come together for these larger than normal games. The entire thing took about two months to complete.

Player A and player B both ended 3-1, with player A having a head to head win over player B. Player A's MOV at 552 and player B's at 567. Player B was awarded first place due to MOV.

Upon inspection, player B's second round(180 pt) score was found to be incorrect. It states that player B won with the full 360 points available, but also that his opponent scored 147 points. Obviously with only 360 points on the table, this score is erroneous in some way. The problem is that no one remembers the actual score for that round, with the only thing being that the player that lost to player B stating he was "beaten soundly." 

Now, "beaten soundly" and actually tabled without scoring any points at all are two different things. In a league where no players ever scored less than thirty or so points due to the sheer mass of ships on the table, it would seem as if someone would remember completely wiping their opponent or being on the receiving end of a pure beatdown.

So the question is, what can be done? Obviously player B's round two score is incorrect in some way, and player A being behind by only 15 points with the head to head in hand feels very misdone by coming out of it all with nothing to show for it when there is a glaring mistake on the scoring. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

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To begin with, if the determination of winner is based on MoV then the head to head is completely irrelevant and shouldn't factor into things at all.

First thing I'd do is talk to both players about it and see what they want to do. Depending on age/income this may a non-issue (ie. one of them just doesn't care enough to argue about it) or they may care about different things (ie. one wants the prize while the other wants title). Or they may agree to split it. I know personally $60 isn't worth creating a bunch of drama about.

Having said that if I was forced to make a decision based on what you've laid out I'd probably say that player A won. Given the fact that in that format it is highly unlikely that player B's score is correct and his opponent score of non-0 reinforcing it then I'd say that game is illegitimate and shouldn't count. That's the fault of both player B and his opponent but not the fault of player A at all. If player B is stubborn about it then honestly there's probably not a lot you can do. Trying to take money back from someone if they don't want to give it, especially if they already spent it, is just not going to go down well. At that point you can compensate player A out of pocket or just chalk this up to a regrettable mistake, vow to do a better job checking scores as they come in next time, and move on.

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46 minutes ago, Jturn314 said:

 

So the question is, what can be done? Obviously player B's round two score is incorrect in some way, and player A being behind by only 15 points with the head to head in hand feels very misdone by coming out of it all with nothing to show for it when there is a glaring mistake on the scoring. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

I assume the ultimate score keeper is also the prize giver.  In which case, it is up to them to make it right: both players split the prize, they both get 1st place cash, or both get something in the middle like  $45.

But this is why little toy space ships should not be played for cash.

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Input: The call was made by the organizer based on the data at hand. Clearly it was in error, but the event is done now so you can't go back in time and change the results. There is no fixing things now. Be mindful that it's a good idea to pay attention to scores during the tournament and if something doesn't seem right, you call it out immediately with the TO. Mistakes happen, and it's particularly easy in non-standard formats to mess things up. Calling it out afterwards can sound petty when ultimately this tournament is worth very little in the grand scheme of things.

This is my personal view.

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8 minutes ago, piznit said:

Plastic lightsaber duel in the parking lot.  Drawing first blood scores the victory.  I feel this needs to be implemented in a lot of things

First blood ****.

There can be only one!

Last man standing takes the prize.

?

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This is a prime example of why I really don't like having "cash prizes" infiltrating the local casual gaming scene, though I also don't like cash prizes at any events.  The extra stakes of your friends' and neighbors' money makes it more awkward and guilt-inducing for me.  If people want to chip in something little and buy some trophies or plaques or a ship or two as prizes, sure, but straight up payouts to the winner have always felt uncomfortable to me.


One option is to give the full prize to Player A:
(1) If Player B did not flawlessly table his second round opponent, then losing any ship worth 15 or more in that match would have meant Player A ends up with the higher total MoV.  A complete tabling at 180pts is pretty darn hard to pull off, and unless Player B was running TIEs/Zs/Scysks, if his opponent killed any ship its gonna knock his MoV down by more than 15 and give Player A the win.
(2) It was Player B's responsibility, in part, to enter the score for that second round game.  If it's now clearly in error and in question, it's not necessarily unreasonable to penalize Player B for that error.  Players have been disqualified from large X-Wing events for less egregrious errors (like leaving a 0pt upgrade off of their squad list), and WizKids for instance has a standard policy where if you don't catch an error with your opponent's squad or score entry, you are both disqualified from the event.
(3) Player A beat Player B in the head-to-head, and while that shouldn't matter if MoV is being used, it gives a little more weight to any argument for giving A the prize in light of (1) and (2) above.

Another option is to have Player A and Player B split the prize:
This is the "easy way out," and it might be the best way to maintain peace and harmony in the group.


That being said, though, it really sounds like Player B probably did not score 360 MoV in Round 2, and if that's the case and he scored 345 or less MoV in that round (accomplished by losing anything heftier than a TIE/Z/Scyck), then Player A should be ahead on the final MoV total, it sounds like? 

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My FLGS gives out store certificates and it is a good thing. Giving out actual money is just not a good idea IMO.

I would split the money even though frankly player A should be declared the winner since he only lost by 15 points and there's no way the other guy tabled to stay ahead in points.

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