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Pilgrimzero

Leading from behind

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I’ve seen a few batreps and I’ve noticed people tend throw Luke and Vader out in the front (as leader heroes should do) but this tends to get them shot up.

would it not be wiser to have a squad of Rebels/STroopers stand in front of them as they march across the field?  Would this provide any benefit?  Like cover 1? Which also maybe boosted if the squad is behind a barrier?

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Troopers and Repulsor vehicles can't obsecure (thus no cover) other models.  So though the Rebels would be closer and may take more fire for being a threat, they can't protect luke from being targeted or giving him any shooting benefits.

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Trooper units do not provide cover, nor do they block line of sight, so hiding behind a squad of troopers in pointless. 

However, standing behind a ground vehicle does provide cover, for what it's worth.

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If Luke and Vader are in back, you're only using 3/4 of your army. Ranged commanders will be better in the back. 

Also, shooting through troopers does not grant cover, but shooting through ground vehicles does grant cover. And you only take the highest rating of cover while defending if LOS traces across multiple objects. So sitting behind 2 light cover only grants light cover. You can improve your cover by having a suppression token, so being in light cover will boost it to heavy. 

Luke and Vader are quite good at being in front. Their force abilities allow them to survive. Force Reflex grants a free Dodge, which drops a hit and allows you to Reflect. Mind Trick and Choke hurt troopers. And Saber Throw gives them a ranged attack. Lead from the front.

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theres no priority fire in this game so if they can see luke/vader theyre going to shoot them, even if they are in cover. They might survive 1 more turn than usual, but wont be doing any damage unless someone is foolish enough to get close. And if your opponent is using all long-range stuff, he's gonna just let luke/vader sit there and be useless until the moment he pops out of that barricade to show he wants to attack.

Unless they can fully block LoS or hide behind a friendly ground vehicle to light cover while moving up, not really a point to be in cover. Which is one reason i think a lot of people are not going to use luke/vader when we get leia/veers/han/mysteryimpguy

Edited by Vineheart01

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7 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

theres no priority fire in this game so if they can see luke/vader theyre going to shoot them, even if they are in cover. They might survive 1 more turn than usual, but wont be doing any damage unless someone is foolish enough to get close. And if your opponent is using all long-range stuff, he's gonna just let luke/vader sit there and be useless until the moment he pops out of that barricade to show he wants to attack.

Unless they can fully block LoS or hide behind a friendly ground vehicle to light cover while moving up, not really a point to be in cover. Which is one reason i think a lot of people are not going to use luke/vader when we get leia/veers/han/mysteryimpguy

Once we get different commanders, I'm saving Vader for the inevitable 1000+ point games.

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Often its a good idea to throw an order on your commander not to activate them first but to be sure you can activate them last.  Keep them back in cover, then move out and do some work at the end of the turn.  Give them an order again at the start of the next to activate them early and move them up into cover again to keep yourself safe.  

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Well, Luke is pretty good at leading from behind buildings.  Saw a battle where Luke jumped over a building into melee with some stormtroopers, killed them all, and moved back around a corner of the building to block LOS from other units.

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Since at least one commander is a must, I guess we'll see a variety of them with different play styles. Vader and Luke obviously are more melee oriented and thus ten to get further upfield, and that a good thing. Killing either of them requires substantial investment on your firepower, especially with those Dodge tokens. I think it suits the core set well to have a frontline commanders, as it gives the games a more "heroic" feel. There will be times for more tactical/fragile/support commanders - Veers and Leia are just around the corner.

 

I actually believe we might develop something akin to Warmachine&Hordes nomenclature (where you have to take a warcaster/warlock, a powerful piece that is essentially your commander), where players refer to frontline/midrange/support 'casters and 'locks. It might well be that we have such basic trio in Luke/Han/Leia respectively :)

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The other thing I think is worth noting is that units engaged in melee can't get shot. In other words, if you can get Luke/Vader tied up with another trooper unit, you don't need to worry about getting shot (at least during the duration of the melee.)

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1 hour ago, Xiervak said:

The other thing I think is worth noting is that units engaged in melee can't get shot. In other words, if you can get Luke/Vader tied up with another trooper unit, you don't need to worry about getting shot (at least during the duration of the melee.)

It’s not really beneficial for your trooper units though. The trooper unit might last two turns  in melee with Vader/Luke. 

 

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4 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

It’s not really beneficial for your trooper units though. The trooper unit might last two turns  in melee with Vader/Luke. 

 

I'm pretty sure Xiervak was referring to you trying to get YOUR Luke/Vader tied up in melee, not suggesting you should protect your troopers by tying them up with Luke/Vader.

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11 minutes ago, kaffis said:

I'm pretty sure Xiervak was referring to you trying to get YOUR Luke/Vader tied up in melee, not suggesting you should protect your troopers by tying them up with Luke/Vader.

Right, and it's a great idea, except what will the opposing players hero unit be doing if yours is tied up with their troopers? (If your empire you can mortar/suppress Luke with the AT-STs.)

(I know not every game will play out this way, but if my opponent is tying up my troopers with his commander/hero unit, I'm sure going to coup de grace and tie up his.)

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12 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Right, and it's a great idea, except what will the opposing players hero unit be doing if yours is tied up with their troopers? (If your empire you can mortar/suppress Luke with the AT-STs.)

(I know not every game will play out this way, but if my opponent is tying up my troopers with his commander/hero unit, I'm sure going to coup de grace and tie up his.)

I'm not saying it's a flawless plan, just pointing out that it's not all bad. I think leading from the front and levelling units with Luke/Vader is a perfectly viable tactic, especially so early in the game when those two in particular are the top dogs. Don't forget that at the same time, the rest of your army will be within range to tie up potential threats to the victor of the melee.

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