Double Commander Slow Push Heavy Imperials

[Copes 225]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to play with different lists for Imperials outside of the Vader / 5 DLTs / 3 Bikes lists that seem to be considered the optimal way to play.

I've been thinking about a list that essentially splits your army into two forces, each with a commander and a heavy-damage unit. The army would slowly move forward on the battlefield, creating a dangerous wall for enemies to advanced past. I think this army is optimal for objective capturing and holding, only needing to push about halfway across the battlefield. Theoretically if you can maintain control of 50% of the battlefield, you should be able to control the majority of objectives by turn 6. I think this army would be less effective needing to push into your opponents zone simply because of slow movement speeds.

Here is the list:

Darth Vader (195)

• Force Choke (5)
• Force Reflexes (15)
• Saber Throw (10)

General Veers (90)

AT-ST (195)

• AT-ST Mortar Launcher (10)
• DW-3 Concussive Grenade Launcher (15)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)
• Stormtrooper (11)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)
• Stormtrooper (11)

Snowtrooper (40)

• Snowtrooper (10)

Snowtrooper (40)

• Snowtrooper (10)

TOTAL: 798/800

 

4 units of troopers will hopefully be enough to capture objectives. Vader and Snowtroopers move slowly across one side of the board, availing of the Move->Move->Attack or Move->Aim->Attack action sequences they both have through a free attack after a move action. They should keep pace with each other. Elsewhere, Veers adds to the effectiveness of an AT-ST that can attack anywhere on the board at any time, pelting the opponent from a distance at first and only getting deadlier as it advances. Its flank is covered by Stormtroopers, who also act to protect Veers. Stormies or Snowtroopers that are more central on the board can reinforce one side or the other if it is struggling.

It makes sense in my head but I have yet to effectively test it on TTS, and obviously Veers and Snowtroopers aren't out yet for real life play. Would love some feedback and some thought - I want to know how this list will lose from people who have played more of this game than me. 

Thanks!

[Jabby 1,042]

I haven’t played the game yet, (hasnt arrived-consequences of living in the middle east. There are no game shops just fast food places, but i digress) but it seems like a decent list. Its very slow moving so it would get stomped in long march + breakthrough though

[ScummyRebel 5,344]

Honestly, if you only have one weakness in deployment + victory cards, you can easily veto a critical piece that denies it.

I like the concept even if I don’t know how it’ll work.

[Copes 225]

22 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Honestly, if you only have one weakness in deployment + victory cards, you can easily veto a critical piece that denies it.

I like the concept even if I don’t know how it’ll work.

King of my thoughts - you specifically avoid specific deployment and victory cards as much as you can.

What I'm wondering is how people might counter this type of list. Would 5 groups of rebels and 3 AT-RTs overwhelm? Could this list survive? Or do we just not know?

[Xiervak 161]

Is Veers already released? 

[Copes 225]

21 minutes ago, Xiervak said:

Is Veers already released? 

No. But you can play the list on the Tabletop Simulator Legion mod.

[LunarSol 1,369]

On 3/27/2018 at 3:30 PM, Copes said:

I'm trying to play with different lists for Imperials outside of the Vader / 5 DLTs / 3 Bikes lists that seem to be considered the optimal way to play.

You can't do both, right?  It's Vader + 4 DLTs + 2 Bikes + 1 DLT/Bike right?

[Copes 225]

19 hours ago, LunarSol said:

You can't do both, right?  It's Vader + 4 DLTs + 2 Bikes + 1 DLT/Bike right?

Yes sorry, I just keep thinking of people who suggest buying 3 bikes and 5 DLTs for competitive play, but you're right.

[Copes 225]

I'm still playing with this list, and while it has its weaknesses, I have found some success with it as long as I can ensure that the objective isn't Breakthrough. I think I like it quite a bit against Imperial lists with bikes. 

Anyway, I'm looking at altering it to be one of two variants. 

Darth Vader (200)

• Force Reflexes (15)
• Saber Throw (10)

General Veers (80)

AT-ST (195)

• AT-ST Mortar Launcher (10)
• DW-3 Concussive Grenade Launcher (15)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)
• Stormtrooper (11)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)
• Stormtrooper (11)

Snowtrooper (40)

• Snowtrooper (10)
• Concussion Grenades (5)

Snowtrooper (40)

• Snowtrooper (10)
• Concussion Grenades (5)

TOTAL: 793/800

This version is very very similar to the first list, except I have adjusted values based on what we know now that more info on Veers is out. I've also ditched Force Choke on Vader, and added Concussion Grenades to the Snowtroopers. I find that their 5 white dice weren't working well - but being able to get into close combat and ignore cover (and switch from white dice to black dice) works a little better. Seems to get blue most times since it sits at only 793 points.

The other option for this list is:

Darth Vader (200)

• Force Reflexes (15)
• Saber Throw (10)

General Veers (80)

AT-ST (195)

• AT-ST Mortar Launcher (10)
• DW-3 Concussive Grenade Launcher (15)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)

Stormtrooper (44)

• DLT-19 Stormtrooper (24)

TOTAL: 797/800

This version ditches Snowtroopers entirely in favour of thinner groups of Stormtroopers. Can cover more ground in a turn if needed, and gives me extra DLT range. Given that I'm really only trying to control about 55% of the board, the longer range and quicker rush to the centre helps me out. However, I worry about not having the extra wound threshold. Essentially I swap 4 white dive for 4 black dice across the army, which is nice, but it is at the expense of 4 wound threshold. 

Still tweeking this, and I really don't think this list is particularly meta. But I would love some help theorycrafting it, since I really would love to find something that allows me to play Vader + ATST successfully and have enjoyed this list so far!

Edited April 18, 2018 by Copes

[LunarSol 1,369]

I'm not sure what I think about Imperial double commander.  A huge part of the appeal of Veers is that you can save 140ish points not taking Vader, but if I WANT Vader, do I really gain much from Veers?  I find myself in this circular logic of saving points taking Veers, filling those points with an AT-ST, deciding Vader is better than an AT-ST, and then wondering what I'm taking Veers for.  

[Copes 225]

14 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

I'm not sure what I think about Imperial double commander.  A huge part of the appeal of Veers is that you can save 140ish points not taking Vader, but if I WANT Vader, do I really gain much from Veers?  I find myself in this circular logic of saving points taking Veers, filling those points with an AT-ST, deciding Vader is better than an AT-ST, and then wondering what I'm taking Veers for.  

In my mind Veers is there to buff and protect the AT-ST (constant aim tokens so the AT-ST can position and constantly fire effectively). The logic (or at least mine) is that I want to run Vader + ATST, but ATST works better with Veers. Plus, with an early Maximum Firepower (normally turn 2) Veers + ATST can take out a target that could conceivably cost a lot of damage, crippling the enemy early.

ATST suppression being spread around can also assist Vader's slow advance. 

That's the thought, anyway. Not saying it is a sound thought.

[nungunz 221]

In addition to Breakthrough, beware Key Positions as the Red player.