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Cobramax76

Actual Void Kraken specs

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Posted (edited)

In the books ( fluff and actual game books ) It lists individual Void Kraken as creatures that ply the deep void and forgotten lanes that can measure many kilometers and can dwarf a battleship ( 8.5km long ) but in the Nid' specs the biggest listed is only technically a Grand Cruiser ( 7.5km long ) I have run across a few descriptions of them in all the books ive read and they are all in agreement with one thing...that the Void Kraken are solitary and that the larger ones of them dwarf a battleship for size. Im curious if anyone has done any specs on them. I've got Lodge Blackman's supplement for Nids to use to create the basics of one but again...its limited in size..

So...Im considering it from the standpoint of having it broken off from its splinter fleet long long ago...drifting and operating purely on instinct ( ie feed on asteroids and whatever else looks tasty ) until a Nid with suitable skill takes it over and starts to use it for their own ends ( a player running a Ymgarl Fleetmaster ) Now im at a loss since the sources all also point to variations within each class of ship tailor made....BUT...my issue..given the stated size of dwarfing a battleship....

What size range are we talking and what specs could be good for that ship as a base model to start with and work from???  Im leaning towards 16km long ( thats the tentacles included ) What im looking at to begin with for this one is going to be ALOT of work for the PC to get the ship going...Im only wanting to give it the Feeder Tendrils and Massive Claws ( limiting it to melee only...in so far as 8km tentacles go anyway ) a relatively slow speed ( but capable of bursts of speed at times temporarily ) and some heavy armor ( im imagining it was purpose grown ( like all Nids ) to be a line breaker and capital ship killer...heavier than usual armor and astounding melee damage potential with sudden bursts of speed to seem deceptively slow allowing it to close with its target faster than they want it to. )

Ideas?

 

The specs for the Tyrannid hive ship are thus:

Hull: Grand Cruiser equivalent   Mass: 40 megatonnes  Accel: 2.2 Gravities Max sustainable  Dimensions: 7.5km long; 1.8km abeam

Speed: 5          Detection: +10   Armor: 21   Space: 90    Maneuver: +5   Hull Integrity: 90  Ship Points: 70

Weapon Capacity: Port 2, Starboard 2, Prow 1, Dorsal 1

Edited by Cobramax76

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One of the other things i was considering is this.  The differences between when any other ship rams a target vs when a Tyrannid Bio-ship initiates a grapple to taste test its new chewtoy....The information for ram attacks is already in game mechanics...BUT...what about the Tyrannid ships grapple attacks and biting / chewing AND the torsion shearing of having those tendril-arms coiled and constricting around the ship? I havent seen any of those mechanics in game anywhere ( so if i missed them please direct me to the correct source or send me a link so i may see it please )

Surely the bite attack can deal damage based off its size category as can the damage from a grapple/coil-constrict attack...also...once grappled...what kind of acceleration/speed/damage would need to be inflicted on the Nid ship for it to let go or to break free of its grip? ( would or should this also be based off opposing size categories...and if so...how ? )

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Posted (edited)

Well, the Void Kraken listed in the rules for the Koronus Bestiary is explicitly it own thing, hearkening back to the original Space Monsters specced out in Battlefleet Gothic supplements. The original Kraken for the Tyranids date much earlier, to Space Fleet. Deciding what flavor it is should come after determining whether or not it is a Tyranid or one of the many deep space and warp spawned monstrosities that can eat entire fleets of vessels, like the Void Whale.

Size-wise, a random space monster could be whatever you choose; a Tyranid Kraken is a specific type of Tyranid vessel substantially different from the rest of their fleet, with rather different abilities. A Tyranid Kraken is usually escort sized, and always lacks the spores clouds that act as shields and turrets for other Tyranid vessels; to compensate, they have heavy armor all around, later rules made them heavy escorts with 2 hits instead of one, and are considered permanently Braced, providing a save similar to the Holofields/Shadowfields of the Eldar or the Stealth/Regeneration systems of the Necrons. Krakens are tied for the fastest and most maneuverable Tyranid ships alongside the Vanguard Drones used as scouts and spotters. Relative to a Sword frigate with 4 batteries or a Firestorm with 2 batteries and a lance, a Kraken will also carry the armament of a heavy escort-the equivalent of 6 batteries, 2 lances, or an array of close combat weapons-Feeder Tendrils or Claws. The Tendrils allow the Kraken to make hit and run attacks that can destroy escorts and cripple larger vessels while ignoring armor, while the claws have to deal with armor but have the Kraken latch on and deal serious damage while arresting movement of the victim.

Later versions created a scaled up Kraken the size of a light cruiser-basically the same rules with more hits and weapons. If you want a Battleship sized Kraken, the largest hiveships are larger than standard battleships, moving into super battleship territory, and can be specced to have many close combat weapons to get the same feel.

If you are interested, all the BFG rules are free so you can just google the PDFs. The current rules can be found on the specialist games forum.

Edited by ViperMagnum357

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, ViperMagnum357 said:

Well, the Void Kraken listed in the rules for the Koronus Bestiary is explicitly it own thing, hearkening back to the original Space Monsters specced out in Battlefleet Gothic supplements. The original Kraken for the Tyranids date much earlier, to Space Fleet. Deciding what flavor it is should come after determining whether or not it is a Tyranid or one of the many deep space and warp spawned monstrosities that can eat entire fleets of vessels, like the Void Whale.

Size-wise, a random space monster could be whatever you choose; a Tyranid Kraken is a specific type of Tyranid vessel substantially different from the rest of their fleet, with rather different abilities. A Tyranid Kraken is usually escort sized, and always lacks the spores clouds that act as shields and turrets for other Tyranid vessels; to compensate, they have heavy armor all around, later rules made them heavy escorts with 2 hits instead of one, and are considered permanently Braced, providing a save similar to the Holofields/Shadowfields of the Eldar or the Stealth/Regeneration systems of the Necrons. Krakens are tied for the fastest and most maneuverable Tyranid ships alongside the Vanguard Drones used as scouts and spotters. Relative to a Sword frigate with 4 batteries or a Firestorm with 2 batteries and a lance, a Kraken will also carry the armament of a heavy escort-the equivalent of 6 batteries, 2 lances, or an array of close combat weapons-Feeder Tendrils or Claws. The Tendrils allow the Kraken to make hit and run attacks that can destroy escorts and cripple larger vessels while ignoring armor, while the claws have to deal with armor but have the Kraken latch on and deal serious damage while arresting movement of the victim.

Later versions created a scaled up Kraken the size of a light cruiser-basically the same rules with more hits and weapons. If you want a Battleship sized Kraken, the largest hiveships are larger than standard battleships, moving into super battleship territory, and can be specced to have many close combat weapons to get the same feel.

If you are interested, all the BFG rules are free so you can just google the PDFs. The current rules can be found on the specialist games forum.

My thanks friend.  I had read some about them from the wiki etc...i was personally going with the info based on original ideas ( void whale and up sized ) as sometimes the changes they make to the game leave me scratching my head or flat refusing to buy the manual because i think whoever came up with the changes presented needs to go jump in the lake and not the printer...lol  As a whole i tend towards the more original ideas and takes on things with a few notable exceptions ( ad mech being the biggest ) Ive emailed Lodge and am talking with him about some specifics regarding ship design for the nids from his supplement. Im hoping to get something more concrete sometime soon as a result.  I found a few questions when researching a few of the components ( ones that i happen to need for the design in mind...lol  my luck ) so .....yep...lol

I have a specific image in mind for this one and it is based entirely off 2 things ( 1 the literal image of legend that inspires such dread in void sailors and captains alike and 2 the soul puckering close combat capabilities mentioned only in hushed whispers at starbases ) I am actually Not going to be giving this one any ranged weapons at all....it will ONLY have Claws and Tendril strikes/grapples..and...OH LOOK!..CHEWTOY!!!! OM NOM NOM!  Hence the pic shown here.  This "kraken" isnt close to an escort for size..lol or a cruiser even....THIS is the basic size / idea of what im using to term as a Void Kraken.

1262416705755.jpg

Edited by Cobramax76

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The ones you see in that pic would tend to give a very clear idea of the size scale of some of them....For instance...you can clearly see from the shape of it that the nid ship at top right underneath the big one is a nid Cruiser ( 5km long ) obviously its not as close as the large main one shown BUT its also not that far away either.......notice the cloud cover in the pic and the fact that the large one is the only one with tendrils let alone the fact that the tendrils can be seen reaching all the way to the ground. Its obvious that this main nid ship is Far Far larger than even a battleship ( since the battlebarge seen in the top left as close as it is to the perspective viewer STILL isnt as big as the main nid ship ) A battlebarge is approximately 8.2km long and this Nid main ship even at that distance still dwarfs the battlebarge....I would definitely say that this main nid ship dwarfed the biggest imperial ship...to me in this pic that would mean that the nid main ship would be somewhere around the 30-40km mark ( tendrils included ) Being caught with the tendrils would easily be fatal for any voidship  ( and rapidly so )

THIS is the type of Tyrannid "Kraken" i have in mind...the original idea of them and their size range. Im not about to go with the BS that GW put out that changed it. ( The rest of you are of course free to do so if you wish for your games ) But im just not gonna buy the new versions BS.  Newer is very rarely better anymore and this is no exception in my opinion.

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After fully reading the entry in the Bestiary for the Void Kraken ( an interesting read if nothing else ) Ive decided that it will be 2 things.  1) Using modified rules for the tentacles etc but still with the Entangle ability ( only im making it required that to try to entangle it will need TWO tentacles to score a hit not just one. and 2) that this particular one will be one of the potential variations listed and will be older ( at least far more well fed ) than the others and will have thusly grown far bigger than others.

One of the things i will be changing for it will be the listed base characteristic test stat of 35....( ive never been that nice a GM to my groups in this game system ( it isnt called grim dark future for nothing..hehe ) ) therefore i will be making its base characteristic stat a fair sight better than the meager 35 for its natural weapons afterall.....added the size of those tentacles is ginormous....lol thats gotta give a better To-Hit...Natural weapons + size...cmon now...hehehe...get devious with it.

As for the specifics with the attacks etc...i will be waiting for Lodge to get back with me on it as i will be taking some of the particulars from some of his creations.

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Posted (edited)

Finally i found the descriptions that had me thinking of the Kraken as much much bigger than the mundane rules would suggest.   I will give you the full quote as written in the book, but first i will tell you which book i got it from and the author.

Book Name: Valedor

Author: Guy Haley

Quote Location: Bottom of page 256 ( last 3 lines )

Quote: "One of their larger cruisers was not quite nimble enough, and was snared by the thousand-kilometre tentacles of a Kraken ship. "

Now then...a 1,000km tentacle!?!? Ok that would put the body of it at LEAST 500km in length and then at least 100km thick!

 

Here is another one.

Book Name: Valedor

Author: Guy Haley

Quote Location: page 275 ( last paragraph )

Quote: "The holographic image showed them close, curved shells like those of sea beasts or ram's horns, their wide, fluted apertures alive with writhing tentacles tens of thousands of paces long."

Tens of thousands of paces long....

And yet another, this one specifically about the Norn ship.

Book Name: Valedor

Author: Guy Haley

Quote Location: page 284 ( second actual paragraph )

Quote: "Dark Eldar, Biel-Tanian, and Iyandeni ships rushed towards the norn vessel, a gargantuan slug-like thing a hundred times the length of an eldar battleship"

A hundred times the length of an Eldar Battleship.....thats ALOT bigger than a tiny little speck of a destroyer sized Kraken.......

 

Edited by Cobramax76

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As @ViperMagnum357 notes, Kraken are technically the term for a 'class' of tyranid raider escorts: they're very different to 'normal' tyranid ships in that they have massively armoured carapaces rather than dense spore clouds (which function like a weird combination of shields, turrets and a combat air patrol in Battlefleet Gothic).

Remember that when taking quotes from Valedor, references to 'Kraken' ships could be either tyranid 'kraken-class' ships or tyranid ships of hive fleet Kraken. Or both, I guess.

Because confusing the reader is fun! :ph34r:

 

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:09 AM, Cobramax76 said:

Quote: "One of their larger cruisers was not quite nimble enough, and was snared by the thousand-kilometre tentacles of a Kraken ship. "

Now then...a 1,000km tentacle!?!? Ok that would put the body of it at LEAST 500km in length and then at least 100km thick!

Only if you're considering that picture 'to scale' and all of the tentacle visible. Even if the tentacle narrows to a few hundred or tens of metres wide it's (to scale) practically like warp spider/harlequin's kiss nanowire as far as seeing it from a few thousand kilometres away goes.

And yes, at least a filament 'tip' needs to be thousands of kilometres. The concept is a bit silly, but it's not, in theory, any different to Grapple Cannons from Hostile Acquisitions or the Conqueror's Ursus Claws in the Horus Heresy; to initiate a boarding action in rogue trader requires you to get within 1 VU but that's still potentially 10,000km range. Even if the piloting check to initiate the boarding action halves the range....quarters it...heck, reduces it to a tenth, you're still expecting 1,000km of chain on the end of your harpoons.

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:09 AM, Cobramax76 said:

Quote: "The holographic image showed them close, curved shells like those of sea beasts or ram's horns, their wide, fluted apertures alive with writhing tentacles tens of thousands of paces long."

Assuming a pace as about a metre, that's about 10km, which is not unreasonable given that most hive ships are portrayed in BFG as a smallish battleship class (comparable to large grand cruisers).

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:09 AM, Cobramax76 said:

Quote: "Dark Eldar, Biel-Tanian, and Iyandeni ships rushed towards the norn vessel, a gargantuan slug-like thing a hundred times the length of an eldar battleship"

That is specifically the norn vessel - a 'fleet flagship' and yes, it probably is that big. Eldar warships are a little small compared to their mon-keigh counterparts, and the core ship of an entire tyranid hive fleet being on the scale of a space hulk or astartes fortress-monastery doesn't sound that unreasonable, does it? That is emphatically not going to be the normal standard, though.

 

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:48 PM, Cobramax76 said:

Im only wanting to give it the Feeder Tendrils and Massive Claws ( limiting it to melee only...in so far as 8km tentacles go anyway ) a relatively slow speed ( but capable of bursts of speed at times temporarily ) and some heavy armor ( im imagining it was purpose grown ( like all Nids ) to be a line breaker and capital ship killer...heavier than usual armor and astounding melee damage potential with sudden bursts of speed to seem deceptively slow allowing it to close with its target faster than they want it to. )

Using 'tyranid-renamed-versions-of-existing-stuff-with-rules'

Tentacles could easily be modelled as Grapple Cannons (technically they're 'raider only' but who cares, it's your campaign!). Massive Claws can be modelled by giving it extra damage and a bonus to pilot checks when ramming, much like the ork brute ramship (armoured prow/reinforced prow/power ram/augmented retro-thrusters)

Secondary Reactors are your 'afterburners' upgrade, and giving it a massively overclassed drive or some manoeuvrability-enhancing components makes passing the ramming/boarding rolls a snap.

 

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:48 PM, Cobramax76 said:

The specs for the Tyrannid hive ship are thus:

Hull: Grand Cruiser equivalent   Mass: 40 megatonnes  Accel: 2.2 Gravities Max sustainable  Dimensions: 7.5km long; 1.8km abeam

Speed: 5          Detection: +10   Armor: 21   Space: 90    Maneuver: +5   Hull Integrity: 90  Ship Points: 70

Weapon Capacity: Port 2, Starboard 2, Prow 1, Dorsal 1

  • Narrative values sound right for a grand cruiser. I might suggest that a heavily organic ship is likely to be a touch lighter than an adamatium-keeled 'hard-tech' one, so maybe 37 or 38 megatonnes, on a par with the Exorcist, although you are saying you want it heavily armoured, so making it comparable to the avenger might not be unreasonable
  • Speed 5 sounds about right for a base grand cruiser hull (note that the components I'm recommending plugging into it would up that a lot!)
  • Detection +10 is about normal for a non-recon-dedicated capital vessel.
  • Armour 21 is high. Tyranid ships tend not to have amazing armour....especially since it's going to pick up a massive wodge of extra armour on the front if it takes armoured/reinforced prow to represent its claws. On the other hand, if you're not giving it shields it's actually pretty vulnerable (depends if you want to give it a 'fake' shield/turret value to represent spore clouds, as BFG did).
  • Hull Integrity - fine
  • Manoeuvre - fine
  • Ship Points - irrelevant, surely? It's not like you're going to buy this.... but again, fine.
  • Weapon Capacity - Hmmm.. Giving it Prow and Dorsal takes two 1-arc battery mounts from the Avenger class and makes them 3-arc battery mounts. Yes, the Repulsive does this, but 'pays' for it with a couple of points less armour, an inability to increase its armour, and the 'cursed' rule. I don't think it's worth dying in a ditch over, but I'd try to find some drawback for the ship.
    • Also, to correctly match Tyranid BFG ships, technically it should be 'prow' and 'thorax'. Whether you class thorax as dorsal or prow in game rules terms is up to you; they have the same arcs of fire, although tyranid cruisers could mount thorax torpedo tubes, which implies 'prow' is a better fit.
On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:18 PM, Cobramax76 said:

The differences between when any other ship rams a target vs when a Tyrannid Bio-ship initiates a grapple to taste test its new chewtoy....The information for ram attacks is already in game mechanics...BUT...what about the Tyrannid ships grapple attacks and biting / chewing AND the torsion shearing of having those tendril-arms coiled and constricting around the ship? I havent seen any of those mechanics in game anywhere ( so if i missed them please direct me to the correct source or send me a link so i may see it please )

Well, doing extra damage for prow ram upgrades is a standard thing, and claw attacks can be considered part of that. I'd use tentacles as grapple cannons to improve your odds of boarding - since delvering tentacles/claws/tongues/symbiotic assault-beasties/whatever into breaches in the enemy ship's hull is ultimately what this ship is all about.

If you want to make it scary, and follow the BFG example; if the claws (ram) does damage, once damage is resolved the two ships are considered locked together in a boarding action (and hence anything giving bonuses to boarding manoeuvre checks would also help the ramming manoeuvre check since they're the same thing). Boarding actions already include rules for breaking off - and more importantly, it shouldn't need more than one round of boarding from this monstrosity to seriously bugger most enemy ships.

 

Putting it all together:

Tentacles (Grapple Cannons) in Prow/Dorsal Mount

Las-Burners (Bio-Plasma - a common short-range tyranid weapon) - in broadside mounts

Shields + Turrets = spores

 

  • Grand Cruiser hull
    • Tyranid equivalents of Modified Saturnine-pattern Class 4a “Ultra” Drive, Stelov 2 Warp Engine, Gellar Field, Voss “Glimmer”-pattern Multiple Void shield Array, Ship Master’s Bridge, Vitae-pattern Life sustainer, Voidsmen Quarters, M-100 Augur Array
    • Crew Rating 40 (Crack)
    • Tyranid equivalents of Prow & Dorsal Grapple Cannons, 2 Port & 2 Starboard Las-Burners
    • Tyranid Equivalents of Flak Turrets, Gravity Sails, Defensive Countermeasures, Armoured Prow, Power Ram, Barracks, 2 x Reinforced Interior Bulkheads, 3 x Augmented Retro-Thrusters
    • Tyranid Equivalents of Best Craftsmanship Storm Trooper Detachment, Best Craftsmanship Secondary Reactors, and Best Craftsmanship Overload Shield Capacitors

 

  • Tyranid Hive Ship
    • Speed 7
    • Detection +10 (+0 when deploying spores)
    • Manouvrability +30
    • Armour 21 (25 Prow)
    • Hull Integrity 96
    • Turret Rating 3 (4 when deploying spores)
    • Crew Rating 40 (+10 for Ballistic Skill Tests, +50 for Command Checks in boarding actions)
  • Essential Components
    • Bioplasma Warp Engine
    • Bioplasma Sublight Drive
      • The Hive Ship gains +1 Speed (included above)
    • Psychic Barrier (Gellar Field)
    • Synaptic Chamber (bridge)
      • Ballistic Skill Tests to use feeder tendrils gain +10.
      • The Hive Ship gains +5 Manoeuvrability (included above)
    • Spore Cysts (void shields)
      • When the spores cancel a hit from any source, roll 1d10. On a 3 or lower it manages to pass through a weakness in the spore cloud and the spores do not cancel the hit.
      • Provides an equivalent of three void shields
    • Bile Ducts (life sustainers)
    • Sensory Organs (augur arrays)
    • Symbiote Nests (crew quarters)
  • Supplementary Components
    • Massive Claws
      • The hive ship causes 4D10+25 damage when ramming. This is reduced to 3D10+25 if this component is unpowered, or 2D10+25 if it is destroyed.
    • Prow & Feeder Tendrils
      • When attempting to ram,the hive ship may make one Difficult (–10) Ballistic Skill Test for each set of feeder tendrils rather than a Hard (–20) Pilot (Spacecraft)+Manoeuvrability test to begin the action. Furthermore, as the ships are effectively tied together, the victim must make an Arduous (-40) Pilot (Spacecraft)+Manoeuvrability Test in order to escape rather than the normal Hard (-20) test. The hive ship may elect to simply release its tentacles and escape at any time from a boarding action.
    • 2 Port & 2 Starboard Bioplasma Spines (each Strength 2, Damage 1D5+1, Range 3, Critical 3 Lances)
      •  The hive ship gains +5 to the opposed Command Test made to resolve boarding actions for each bio-plasma spine.
    • Warrior-Form Hatcheries
      • The hive ship gains +20 to all Command Tests involving boarding actions and Hit and Run Actions.
    • Spore Glands
      • When vented, an especially thick cloud of spores applies a –20 penalty to all Ballistic Skill Tests made to attack the hive ship for the next 1d5+1 Strategic Turns. Torpedoes suffer a –30 penalty instead. Once used, the glands must be refilled outside of combat before it can be used again.
    • Spore Clusters
      • When the clusters are in use, increase the hive ship’s Turret Rating by +1.
      • When the clusters are in use, the hive ship suffers a –10 penalty to Detection.
    • Discharge Vents
      • The Hive Ship gains +1 Speed and +5 Manoeuvrability (included above)
    • Solar Vanes
      • The Hive Ship gains +15 Manoeuvrability (included above)
  • Upgrades
    • Assault Swarms
      • When the hive ship conducts a hit and run raid, the raid doubles the amount of Hull Integrity damage dealt.
      • When the hive ship wins an opposed Command Test while defending in a boarding action, it adds 1d5 to the damage inflicted to Crew Population.
      • The hive ship gains a +10 bonus to opposed Command Tests in hit and run raids and boarding actions.
    • Adrenaline Sacs
      • The hive ship may drain its adrenaline sacs to increase its Speed by 3 for a two strategic turns. This activation requires a Difficult (–10) command Test. Even if the test is passed, the vessel’s Speed is reduced by 1 during the turn following the speed increase. If the command test is failed, the ship does not gain the +3 Speed, but immediately suffers the –1 Speed penalty instead. If the test is failed by three or more degrees, the vessel’s Speed is reduced by half until the engines are repaired, requiring an Emergency Repairs Extended Action. The adrenaline sacs may not be used again until these repairs have been made.
    • Spore Reserves
      • Spore Reserves enable a the hive ship to reactivate its spore cysts at full strength immediately after they are overloaded by a salvo. This permits the spore cysts to effectively overload more than one time within a single strategic turn. This reactivation occurs automatically; no actions are required. The upgrade does have a limited capacity. This reactivation may only be performed once per combat encounter (or once per 24 hours).

Works out at ~ 101 "Ship Points" (plus the three upgrades, which don't have an SP cost).

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Im in love...lol Thank you for the info. I had forgotten almost all about the ursus claws and remembered the grapple hooks...but was having issue figuring what the damage would be for the torsion shearing from having the main tendrils actually wrapped around the ship and constricting ( the grapple chains wont do that as they only hit directly in line and wont wrap to produce similar effect ) But your final results im loving. Thank you very much.

As for the references with the Massive Claws and Feeder Tendrils...those were taken from Lodge's Tyrannid supplement for the bio-ships components.

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