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Look, I'm not saying the European X-Wing community is better than the US X-Wing community... but...

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Mainland Europe does.  But dear God, don't get me started on the UK's rail network...

I am from the Netherlands. During last wekend I took a 45 minute train ride that cost me 19,60 GBP (which is 22 eur, 25 USD). One way trip. In the Netherlands a 45 minute train ride would cost me 7 euros at the most. Plus in the UK the train still ran on diesel, whereas in the Netherlands all train run on 100% wind energy.

UK get your act together!

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7 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

I am from the Netherlands. During last wekend I took a 45 minute train ride that cost me 19,60 GBP (which is 22 eur, 25 USD). One way trip. In the Netherlands a 45 minute train ride would cost me 7 euros at the most. Plus in the UK the train still ran on diesel, whereas in the Netherlands all train run on 100% wind energy.

UK get your act together!

I fully agree @Sarcon.  UK Network Rail is a shambles, a lot of the lines and services are ancient, and it is ridiculously expensive if you book on the day of travel.

Hope you have a great weekend at the Open!

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17 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

I am from the Netherlands. During last wekend I took a 45 minute train ride that cost me 19,60 GBP (which is 22 eur, 25 USD). One way trip. In the Netherlands a 45 minute train ride would cost me 7 euros at the most. Plus in the UK the train still ran on diesel, whereas in the Netherlands all train run on 100% wind energy.

UK get your act together!

Gold2.jpg

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3 hours ago, AlexW said:

 Someone from Europe (I think it was Old Para) already pointed out that he had 6 regionals within a 5 hour driving distance of him.    Unless he's perfectly placed somehow, there's really a small spot in the East Coast where there's anything close to that.  

Acually there were 10 Regionals this season within 5h drive from my home city in 3 Countries. 6 is the number I could attend to - you know family and stuff ;)

And BTW:  as I am from Poland (we used to curse our placement in the world between Soviet Union and Nazi Germany)  - it's the first time I hear I am perfectly placed for something  ? 

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On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:54 AM, BadMotivator said:

 

For us in the US, going to a "local" tournament can involve driving 3 hours round trip to a tournament.

3 Hours?! I wish I only had to drive 3 hours one way let alone round trip.

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1 hour ago, Sarcon said:

I am from the Netherlands. During last wekend I took a 45 minute train ride that cost me 19,60 GBP (which is 22 eur, 25 USD). One way trip. In the Netherlands a 45 minute train ride would cost me 7 euros at the most. Plus in the UK the train still ran on diesel, whereas in the Netherlands all train run on 100% wind energy.

UK get your act together!

At least they have trains. Here in the Western US, there's basically no options for mass transit. The roads are always congested as a result, because every single person who lives here is out on the roads in their monstrous pickup trucks. 

I love the US, but the lack of mass transit gets on my nerves.

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15 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

Acually there were 10 Regionals this season within 5h drive from my home city in 3 Countries. 6 is the number I could attend to - you know family and stuff ;)

That's amazing. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and we had 2 within a 3-4 hour drive (one way). The next closest I believe were 8, 9, 11, and 13 hour drives.

Just curious, how many of you folks in Europe take time off work to attend distant tournaments? With just 10 days off (typical for US) per year I don't spend any for travel time on tournaments, it all goes to family. I believe in Europe more common is 20-30 days off and people would most likely be more willing to take an odd day off for travel to/from tournaments.

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

I fully agree @Sarcon.  UK Network Rail is a shambles, a lot of the lines and services are ancient, and it is ridiculously expensive if you book on the day of travel.

16 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I love the US, but the lack of mass transit gets on my nerves.

My wife and I visited friends in Oxford a while ago and traveled throughout UK on the rail network and were impressed with how good it was. Now you're telling me it's the worst of the lot?! :o  Goes to show how bad, and lacking, our mass transit is here in the US. :P

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12 minutes ago, Archidroid said:

I believe in Europe more common is 20-30 days off and people would most likely be more willing to take an odd day off for travel to/from tournaments.

Yeah, the (lack of) US holiday allowance is one of those things that tend to genuinely shock us over here. 20 plus public holidays is the legal minimum in the EU (I think... in the UK at least). 

But thanks to the shorter distances you can usually get away with travelling on the Friday evening then returning on the Sunday anyway.

Edited by __underscore__

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2 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

Yeah, the (lack of) US holiday allowance is one of those things that tend to genuinely shock us over here. 20 plus public holidays is the legal minimum in the EU (I think... in the UK at least). 

20 is the legal minimum, plus 8 public holidays(28 in total) the last place I worked give you 23 days including your Brithday off, or the choice of the Friday or Monday if your Birthday fell on a Weekend. You also add the choice to purchase 5 further days holiday which was part of a benefits package, the last couple of jobs I have worked have had this benefit, then there is also in some jobs you got a further days dependent on length of service, this was eventually capped at the Bank I worked at, as some people if they brought 5 days holiday, plus public holidays had around 42 days off per year, I had around 36 days.

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8 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

...and?  Are you saying that all the X-Wing tournaments in the US are held where the population density is at it's lowest?  Or are they usually held in high-density urban population areas?  If it's the latter, what's the difference?

Why would that be your takeaway? lol   No, it's about the distance between the high density areas, and especially the distance between players in low density areas and the closest high density areas, which is a barrier to travel due to time and cost. 

 

Players closer to other players with more options for effective travel can attend more events.  I figured that would be the obvious takeaway, but I guess not. I forget that Europeans often don't realize just how huge the United States is.    Texas is larger than France.  The UK would only be the 12 largest state and you can fit three of them in Texas.   France has almost three times more people per square kilometer. If you live in West Texas, you could be 3 or more hours from the closest major city.     So no, it's not that nobody in Europe lives in rural areas, lol.   It's that there is a lot more people in rural areas in the US and a lot more distance between those areas and the population centers.   If you live in William Gibson's Boston Atlanta Metropolitan Axis, sure, it's a little easier to get to regional events.  If not, tougher luck. European population centers are closer to other population centers. It's just that simple.  It's only 967km from tip of Scotland to the southern-most point in England.  That's shorter than El Paso, Texas, to Houston, Texas.    San Diego, CA, to Orlando Florida is about the same distance by car as going from Amsterdam... to Aleppo, Syria.    The US.  It's the same approximate size as your continent, and has less than half as many people living in it.

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14 hours ago, Archidroid said:

That's amazing. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and we had 2 within a 3-4 hour drive (one way). The next closest I believe were 8, 9, 11, and 13 hour drives.

Just curious, how many of you folks in Europe take time off work to attend distant tournaments? With just 10 days off (typical for US) per year I don't spend any for travel time on tournaments, it all goes to family. I believe in Europe more common is 20-30 days off and people would most likely be more willing to take an odd day off for travel to/from tournaments.

Well nobody takes time off work to attend Regionals, but it happens sometimes in term of SoS or Euro (or Worlds ;)) 

Usually here is 4 weekends in a month - 2 weekends is Family time, 1 weekend wife does girly things and 1 weekend husband does man things (X-wing!!). It how it goes in our gaming community in Krakow (Poland). We coordinate ourselves and our wifes to have X-wing weekend at the same time :)

As for a paid leave from work in Poland there's 26 days off. 

I my company there is even more:  up to 45 days of paid leave :) This is employee benefit I've introduced and I am proud of :)

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19 hours ago, Sarcon said:

I am from the Netherlands. During last wekend I took a 45 minute train ride that cost me 19,60 GBP (which is 22 eur, 25 USD). One way trip. In the Netherlands a 45 minute train ride would cost me 7 euros at the most. Plus in the UK the train still ran on diesel, whereas in the Netherlands all train run on 100% wind energy.

UK get your act together!

I'm from Russia, and I am facing train delays or cancelations on my trips abroad only :)

Every time I went by the train in any european country I was (Denmark, Spain, Czech Republic, Poland) it was delayed. I went by the train from Warsaw to Krakow (this year polish System Open) - it was delayed for 50 minutes!
And yes, high prices, even in Poland, where prices on other stuff are not higher than in Russia.
Some of our trains not most comfortable, but they will depart and arrive exactly in time. Last train delay I faced in Russia more than 15 years ago.

Regarding topic question.
I can't say anything about USA, but System Open Krakow had fantastic atmosphere and was unexceptedly friendly, even on top tables and during cut games.

Edited by bernh

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On 3/26/2018 at 8:20 AM, FTS Gecko said:
  • the European players seem to be more respectful to the organisers, the hosts, FFG and each other

What data/evidence are you drawing this conclusion from? 

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2 hours ago, Tvboy said:

What data/evidence are you drawing this conclusion from? 

The "Disappointed in System Open Attendees" topic and the "Hoth Final" topic (although it looks like I may have been influenced more by the debate around it more than what actually happened when I started this topic).  Also the fact that the big Organised Play dramas (including the intentional draw fiasco) have occurred during US competitions.

Honourable mention to the at times toxically salty podcast coverage, but that may just be down to a difference in cultures.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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13 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

The "Disappointed in System Open Attendees" topic and the "Hoth Final" topic (although I may have been influenced by the debate around it more than what actually happened).

Honourable mention to the at times toxically salty podcast coverage, but that may just be down to a difference in cultures.

Thanks, I've not been plugged into the game for a month since Seattle Regionals, needed somebody to catch me up. 

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Poland System open - 38 lists in  cut (331 players)

  • 100 point aces - 6
  • Rey+                  -4
  • Ghost Fenn      -3
  • NymRanda       - 2

 

Copenhagen - 15 list in cut (137 players)

  • 100 point ace - 1
  • Rey                   - 2
  • Ghost fenn     - 5
  • NymRanda      - 2

 

 

Analysis Casual

Edited by Tlfj200

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Something funny about those talking about taking airplane flights to games.  Unless I happen to own a small plane, or know someone who would fly of little more than a grass strip, it's going to be 2.5 hours just getting to the airport from where I'm at in the US.  Once there let's not forget all the time suck before your plane would actually leave and then how long before you could get out of the airport when you arrive at your destination.  Oh, once you get to your destination you'd better have arranged more transportation which could be a challenge.

A funny thing is that if they hold their World Championship in MN that would likely be closer than most major tournament locations.

 

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4 hours ago, StevenO said:

Something funny about those talking about taking airplane flights to games.  Unless I happen to own a small plane, or know someone who would fly of little more than a grass strip, it's going to be 2.5 hours just getting to the airport from where I'm at in the US.  Once there let's not forget all the time suck before your plane would actually leave and then how long before you could get out of the airport when you arrive at your destination.  Oh, once you get to your destination you'd better have arranged more transportation which could be a challenge.

In Poland: 

Wake up 5 am Saturday, get to the airport with Uber (8 USD), take a domestic flight Krakow - Gdansk (800km about 500 miles) for about 55 USD round trip, land at 8 am, start Regionals at 9 am :). Finish your Regio next day 3 pm, take return flight at 6 pm - you're home ready to walk your dog at 9 pm Sunday :)

Real story! ;)

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Quite an interesting discussion here.

Text wall incoming!

I live and play in the UK but have been lucky enough to so a fair bit of travelling for x wing. Even getting to worlds in 2015. 

 

I've definitely noticed some trends in the differing environments over that time. Interestingly enough the general spread of lists in most tournaments are similar, the difference tends to be what the top players take and practice with.

 

In the US the top players generally stick to the tried and tested lists. 'Meta' if you will. They make sure they understand them and when a good player takes a good list they do well.

 

In Europe the top players are more likely to see what the top lists are, and then spend their time developing counters to them. Either by changing the top lists slightly, or by introducing auto thrusters to a turret meta. (Martyn and a few others going to kylo ren in the present meta is a good example. If you have been paying attention, there has been Miranda rey and ghost everywhere and kylo is the natural predator) 

This method does take time however and if players are unable to test their ideas across multiple tournaments this could be a reason the US players are more likely to take the top lists.

 

FWIW I think Poland's meta game is one step ahead of Europe's as they are already looking to counter the counter that might evolve.

Finally, having played in both environments and as a few others have mentioned. There is very little difference in tournaments in the US or Europe.

 

There is DEFINITELY a difference in reactions and analysis. This might be a little cultural, not sure, but the american podcast pages have been really really salt filled recently. I'm confused as to why because we are probably in the most open meta ever.

Yes we can't fly b wings anymore but lots of different lists are viable right now, you just need to be aware of the big bad ghost or Miranda when you put them together

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I can't agree more Oli: we have one of the most diverse meta ever yet this board and many podcasts are full of doomsayers.

I think the more dynamic european meta is due the higher player density that make easier to interconnect different local meta. In Europe there are people, especially from the UK, who are able to attend 2 SoS and 3+ regionals in like a month. With this amount of high level playtime it's easier to adapt to the meta and play it your advantage.

Right now we don't have anything that is comparable to the predominance of things like Parattanni, Commonwealth Defenders or original Jumpmasters. All the current strong list can be counterplayed both by list building wisely and by actual on the mat strategy. Most of the competitive players I know, see this as a fun challenge rather than an occasion to complaint.

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1 hour ago, Oldpara said:

In Poland: 

Wake up 5 am Saturday, get to the airport with Uber (8 USD), take a domestic flight Krakow - Gdansk (800km about 500 miles) for about 55 USD round trip, land at 8 am, start Regionals at 9 am :). Finish your Regio next day 3 pm, take return flight at 6 pm - you're home ready to walk your dog at 9 pm Sunday :)

Real story! ;)

2.5 hours to my local airport, 3 hour flight to Bologna.  See you at the Italian Open @Oldpara!  ;)

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