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Look, I'm not saying the European X-Wing community is better than the US X-Wing community... but...

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20 hours ago, comawhite said:

UK population density is almost 8x that of the USA   (7.765x)
660 per square mile vs 85
Poland the other meta we hear about alot is 316 per

Source : https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

This is of course the real reason European gaming seems "bigger". You are simply closer together which makes larger conventions possible and more convenient to travel to.

For us in the US, going to a "local" tournament can involve driving 3 hours round trip to a tournament.

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8 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

This is of course the real reason European gaming seems "bigger". You are simply closer together which makes larger conventions possible and more convenient to travel to.

For us in the US, going to a "local" tournament can involve driving 3 hours round trip to a tournament.

Or in Canada 3 hour each way lol

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Legitimately curious, how popular is Magic the Gathering in UK and Europe in general?  I'm curious if the hyper-competitive nature of US X-wing is qualitatively or quantitatively different.  Are there simply more win-at-all-cost try-hards or have we accumulated a different level of toxicity into our DNA due to Magic or other game systems.

Or maybe it's just all perception, who knows...

Edited by gamblertuba

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12 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Legitimately curious, how popular is Magic the Gathering in UK and Europe in general?  I'm curious if the hyper-competitive nature of US X-wing is qualitatively or quantitatively different.  Are there simply more win-at-all-cost try-hards or have we accumulated a different level of toxicity into our DNA due to Magic or other game systems.

Or maybe it's just all perception, who knows...

America IS about winning at all cost.  Doping in baseball, cycling, basketball, etc.  deflating balls, fixing matches, spending the most money on a superstar and letting go half your roster to pay for it.  Time and time again we see these scandals in sports, and it permeates politics and even entertainment.  Hollywood Hedging their bets on the Asian market by including certain locations or actors is just the latest iteration.

the only question is why are we surprised that the US events are filled with more rudeness and toxicity than international events, it seems fairly ‘nattie’ to me.  Oops did it again.

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30 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

For us in the US, going to a "local" tournament can involve driving 3 hours round trip to a tournament.

Pfffffffffft.  My FLGS on the UK is a 3 hours round trip journey.  It was 7 hours roundtrip to the System Open, with 2 nights away.

Doing it all over again in April.

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26 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Pfffffffffft.  My FLGS on the UK is a 3 hours round trip journey.  It was 7 hours roundtrip to the System Open, with 2 nights away.

Doing it all over again in April.

System Open is a lot more than than for most of us -- lucky if one is within reasonable driving distance, that would e a long trip for a FLGS, at least if you were living at least within reasonable distance of a decent size city in the US.  Probably not many rural X-wing players.

Edited by AlexW

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46 minutes ago, AlexW said:

System Open is a lot more than than for most of us -- lucky if one is within reasonable driving distance, that would e a long trip for a FLGS, at least if you were living at least within reasonable distance of a decent size city in the US.  Probably not many rural X-wing players.

A System Open for anyone in Australia / New Zealand is a 14 - 24 hours plane flight, one way....

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4 minutes ago, Antipodean Ork said:

A System Open for anyone in Australia / New Zealand is a 14 - 24 hours plane flight, one way....

Right, but the OP was comparing the US to the UK.  Hopefully they do something about that!

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On 3/26/2018 at 11:03 AM, Kieransi said:

For real. That's one of my local stores. The owner of the restaurant next door heard the guy yelling about coming back with a gun from outside in the parking lot.

The TO is one of the nicest guys I know and does a lot to help build the community.

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Alright I see what this is turning into now: 

An american, an englishman and a german walked into a bar, and startet to brag about their biggest x-wing events.

The german started: Well sirs, ours x-wing events are so large, se judge needs se bicycle to gets to se wall and announce pairings for rounds..

The american piched in: A'right boys, our x-wing events are much larger, here the judge needs a car to announce parings.

The englishman said: Gents, thats nothing, you see our tournaments have so many attendees that by the time the judge gets to the wall, a new x-wing wave have been released. 

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6 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

This is of course the real reason European gaming seems "bigger". You are simply closer together which makes larger conventions possible and more convenient to travel to.

For us in the US, going to a "local" tournament can involve driving 3 hours round trip to a tournament.

Maybe that 3 hour round trip can be considered "local" but that's pushing it.  And to think there are people who think everyone wants to linger around to watch one game at the end of a long day.

5 hours ago, AlexW said:

System Open is a lot more than than for most of us -- lucky if one is within reasonable driving distance, that would e a long trip for a FLGS, at least if you were living at least within reasonable distance of a decent size city in the US.  Probably not many rural X-wing players.

Rural X-Wing could have had small pockets of players or even individuals who got stuff shipped into them but who occasionally may risk the long trip into "hostile" territories of the urban environment to try their hand at a tournament against different people.  Sadly, the "discount reductions" the corporate overlords dictated in a supposed effort to boost those (F?)LGS has likely left a very bad taste to those who may not even know where to find such a thing but who wanted to follow X-Wing.

Those same rural players are far less likely to have the vast pool of allies to borrow from when it comes to tournaments which means they need to buy more to have the needed components.

 

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4 hours ago, Brack Daddy said:

For real. That's one of my local stores. The owner of the restaurant next door heard the guy yelling about coming back with a gun from outside in the parking lot.

The TO is one of the nicest guys I know and does a lot to help build the community.

Serous question, living in Australia all my life I literally never ever think about being shot, seeing someone get shot, be exposed to gun crime and would need to google where the very few gun shops are in the second biggest city in our country as you just don't see guns.

It boggles my mind at how normal mega crazy gun love is in America and how going shopping, to the movies, to school, or a sports game constantly has the gun shooting risk.

How after years of mass shootings every what feels like 2 months has there been no change??

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the European events are bigger with larger attendances from a greater cross-section of communities

Europe's population density is 188 people per square mile.  Across the entire continent.  The US is 85, less than half.  The US would be 48th out of 54 countries if it was part of Europe, just ahead of Estonia.   The reality is that Europe has more people in a smaller land mass, with cities much closer together which makes mass transit options easier and quicker.

That's really all there is to is to that part.  Getting to events in Europe is way easier and quicker than it is for Americans to get to events outside of their immediate region.

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3 hours ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

 

 

Europe's population density is 188 people per square mile.  Across the entire continent.  The US is 85, less than half.  The US would be 48th out of 54 countries if it was part of Europe, just ahead of Estonia.   The reality is that Europe has more people in a smaller land mass, with cities much closer together which makes mass transit options easier and quicker.

That's really all there is to is to that part.  Getting to events in Europe is way easier and quicker than it is for Americans to get to events outside of their immediate region.

Sweden, Finland and Norway have less than that. And at least Sweden has a quite active X-wing scene. 

Then you cannot only look at the country's mean pop density. Scottish Highlands e.g. are empty, bad luck being a X-wing player there or on Orkneys or Shetlands.

US has many largely empty areas, but other parts are really densely populated, some of these areas have more population than the whole of Finland or Norway :)

Edited by Managarmr
number error

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3 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

Serous question, living in Australia all my life I literally never ever think about being shot, seeing someone get shot, be exposed to gun crime and would need to google where the very few gun shops are in the second biggest city in our country as you just don't see guns.

It boggles my mind at how normal mega crazy gun love is in America and how going shopping, to the movies, to school, or a sports game constantly has the gun shooting risk.

How after years of mass shootings every what feels like 2 months has there been no change??

It is a massively charged issue here, so I'll do my best to answer without earning another Dark Side Point.

Not all of us are mega gun crazy.  I don't have one.  I don't want one.  Yes, I've fired one (a friend's).  And I walk around all day in the City of Chicago (I live downtown, in the center, so it is my home) not feeling endangered--in supposedly one of the most gun-plagued cities in the US.  I've been called stupid.  Ignorant.  A fool just begging to be a victim.

There are a lot of Americans who view guns for what they are: a tool to hunt, an instrument of sport, or an antique collectible.

But for the others, the whole thing is driven by fear:  The fear someone will do you harm.  The fear someone will take your gun away.  And the fear you won't have a gun when you "need" one.

But the lack of American politics to be able to grapple this issue in any way is frustrating, for me at least.

 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

the lack of American politics to be able to grapple this issue in any way is frustrating, for me at least.

 

Some states passed a few statutes after Sandy Hook, like North Carolina’s armed volunteer school resource officer program, but if dozens of the youngest elementary school children being gunned down with no warning did not spur the legislatures into greater action then no amount of mass shootings will.

It also doesn’t help that the 2nd amendment has been propped up as the one solid barrier against meaningful and proper gun regulation  despite the provisions of well trained militia indicating that the people do not have an unrestricted right after all.

there’s also the centuries old obsession and romance of Americans taming the wilderness with guns a blazing, or winning the Wild West with a revolver in each hand, or the idolization of killers and gangsters from the prohibition era all the way to hip hop artists glorifying gang warfare.  It’s a strangely ingrained part of American identity and culture, one that I’m sure it is difficult for the rest of the world to understand.

i don’t see any solutions being realized anytime soon.

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5 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Sweden, Finland and Norway have less than that. And at least Sweden has a quite active X-wing scene. 

Then you cannot only look at the country's mean pop density. Scottish Highlands e.g. are empty, bad luck being a X-wing player there or on Orkneys or Shetlands.

US has many largely empty areas, but other parts are really densely populated, some of these areas have more population than the whole of Finland or Norway :)

Indeed.  And population density is only a partial answer as well.  It still usually takes international players attending events a couple of hours journey round trip to the airport (on average), plus a couple of hours flight, plus overnight stays.

And there's still a LOT of them who do it.

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15 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Legitimately curious, how popular is Magic the Gathering in UK and Europe in general?  I'm curious if the hyper-competitive nature of US X-wing is qualitatively or quantitatively different.  Are there simply more win-at-all-cost try-hards or have we accumulated a different level of toxicity into our DNA due to Magic or other game systems.

Or maybe it's just all perception, who knows...

Magic is massive over here as well, and from what I hear, has a similar kind of vibe to it. Same goes for the Warhammer games and so on - we have plenty of 'that guy', don't worry. X-Wing is no exception either, "fly casual" or not.

One thing I have noticed though, across gaming (tabletop/esports etc) in general, is that the American philosophy when it comes to top level play is to do the *best* thing the _*!best!*_, whereas a lot of European cultures prize some kind of anti-meta more. You can usually see that in top-level character picks and so on when games have continent-level competition. 

 

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16 hours ago, RedHotDice said:

Alright I see what this is turning into now: 

An american, an englishman and a german walked into a bar, and startet to brag about their biggest x-wing events.

The german started: Well sirs, ours x-wing events are so large, se judge needs se bicycle to gets to se wall and announce pairings for rounds..

The american piched in: A'right boys, our x-wing events are much larger, here the judge needs a car to announce parings.

The englishman said: Gents, thats nothing, you see our tournaments have so many attendees that by the time the judge gets to the wall, a new x-wing wave have been released. 

My favourite stat about the weekend (other than the obvious record breaking) was that there were two rooms.  One of which alone would have broken the record for the largest tournament with something like 200 tables on the go at once.

AND there was a smaller room, which had nearly 50 tables in it.  So even the tiny side room where the top cut was happening was as big as an decent sized regional.

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3 hours ago, __underscore__ said:

One thing I have noticed though, across gaming (tabletop/esports etc) in general, is that the American philosophy when it comes to top level play is to do the *best* thing the _*!best!*_, whereas a lot of European cultures prize some kind of anti-meta more. You can usually see that in top-level character picks and so on when games have continent-level competition. 

I guess I’m more of an anti-Meta guy, maybe I should go to euro tourneys.  

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I'm pretty sure it was the Firestorm Games Regional in Cardiff, Wales that sparked the whole outrage about Nym/Miranda when the top 8 were all mirror matches. Wales being part of the UK; which is in turn part of Europe (for now). It's not all sweetness and light; we had a good week or so of doom, gloom and spitting feathers after that.

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17 hours ago, Brack Daddy said:

For real. That's one of my local stores. The owner of the restaurant next door heard the guy yelling about coming back with a gun from outside in the parking lot.

The TO is one of the nicest guys I know and does a lot to help build the community.

And it involved a Hannigan (same surname as me); why do we always get caught in the drama? :P 

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