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Hoth Open Final

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Maybe people just need to be willing to try something different even if that means the possibility of not winning. I ran Tie/D defenders because I have been having fun flying them. I ended up making my first cut ever, even though going in, I only was hoping to make it to stage 2. In my top 32 match against Corran, Low, and Fenn, my dice ran cold on an untockened Corran, who took out my full health Glaive and lost me the match. I had a blast and got to experience success with a list that many people believe cannot be competitive.

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If you are bored to death due the matchup (congratulations, you've played yourself!) and want to force salvos, put dials for those 20 minutes left while telling jokes. Or concede/fly your ships out the map and go home. But what they have decided to do is quite insulting IMHO, specially for the rest of the players there. Sure, we all had some laughs with it, but you are playing an Open final: get your **** together.

Btw, being an Open and all that, I assume a high rank from OP USA was there. If that is the case, did he really allowed this?

 

Also: Ground rules, please.

Edited by Kharnete

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16 minutes ago, Kharnete said:

If you are bored to death due the matchup (congratulations, you've played yourself!) and want to force salvos, put dials for those 20 minutes left while telling jokes. Or concede/fly your ships out the map and go home. But what they have decided to do is quite insulting IMHO, specially for the rest of the players there. Sure, we all had some laughs with it, but you are playing an Open final: get your **** together.

Btw, being an Open and all that, I assume a high rank from OP USA was there. If that is the case, did he really allowed this?

I'd say they went above and beyond by playing for nearly an hour when it was just Miranda vs Miranda, setting dials super fast and staying aggressive without being stupid. The fact that they both wanted to just go to final salvo (after nearly 2 hours of playing and after playing all day) and they weren't allowed to until time went out isn't their fault. They aren't insulting anyone, they don't owe anyone anything, and they **** sure shouldn't be forced to keep setting dials when they've stopped having fun playing a game of plastic spaceships. The rules may say they can't final salvo early, but they can't and shouldn't be forced to go through the motions of playing when it's stopped being fun for both of them.

Edited by mdl0114

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4 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

I'd say they went above and beyond by playing for nearly an hour when it was just Miranda vs Miranda, setting dials super fast and staying aggressive without being stupid. The fact that they both wanted to just go to final salvo (after nearly 2 hours of playing and after playing all day) and they weren't allowed to until time went out isn't their fault. They aren't insulting anyone, they don't owe anyone anything, and they **** sure shouldn't be forced to keep setting dials when they've stopped having fun playing a game of plastic spaceships. The rules may say they can't final salvo early, but they can't and shouldn't be forced to go through the motions of playing when it's stopped being fun for both of them.

Both players did what they should. They picked a list who clearly has the odds on its side and played it well to get that far. Then it came down to two ships who, by design, cannot kill each other, they nonetheless attempted the futile fight.

That they did is not the issue, that they could end up there is kinda sad. To win this match-up against someone with similar skills, if final salvo is not your thing, you have to play stupid and kill the other Miranda and hope yours is good enough to finish the job afterwards. Having the onus be on "who will screw up target priority to maybe get better than a 50/50 shot afterward (if not an outright loss), if it all works out?" is really ridiculous.

Take note people, the best solution with that specific mirror against someone of similar skill is to wait it out and hope the final salvo dice are on your side. Unless one of you really messes up, that's basically what's waiting for you anyways. And more dice are more fun, obviously, since they're more RNG-ee.

I, for one, I'm really glad it ended this way. There's no better way to highlight the brokenness than to have it at some of the biggest tournament, on the final table, streamed for all to see.

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49 minutes ago, shadowswalker said:

Maybe people just need to be willing to try something different even if that means the possibility of not winning. 

A lot of us did exactly that. And we wound up not at the top tables. Your point?

They brought what they thought would do best.

I do not agree with their choice, because I feel like that comes with the territory of playing top table lists at top tables.

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Yep, players did nothing wrong so when they decided to wait until being allowed to final salvo they weren't insulting anyone at all. The fact that it happened in a final game might be a prod towards FFG that this isn't great for the state of their game, but then again might not. All I wanted to say was that the players themselves were great and bashing them for wanting to stop after more than 90 minutes when there was no chance of anything but a final salvo is wrong to do.

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2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Live by the cancer, die by the cancer. 

Or, IMHO, you can play Sport-Wing, or you can play Fun-Wing.  They are not always the same game. 

I mean really, how do you expect FFG to make it better when 2 of the exact same ships with the exact same builds are equal?  It exactly  what y'all claim to want, right??  A perfectly balanced game.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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17 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Or, IMHO, you can play Sport-Wing, or you can play Fun-Wing.  They are not always the same game. 

But what if you want to compete at the very highest level? The desire for a competitive outlet is equal in nature to the desire for fun for many tournament players. If it wasn’t, then yes, the answer would be to stop carrying about flying the very best lists possible that can create awful game states like the one we see here.

 

We should reasonably be able to expect something that is both fun and competitive though. These are both available in TONS of other similar mediums at the equivalent level of competition.

 

Having said that, it is painful to see the competitive game has gotten to a point that it is essentially a meme. Beginning to see my hiatus from the competitive scene is one of the better decisions I’ve made.

Edited by Kdubb

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16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Or, IMHO, you can play Sport-Wing, or you can play Fun-Wing.  They are not always the same game. 

I mean really, how do you expect FFG to make it better when 2 of the exact same ships with the exact same builds are equal?  It exactly  what y'all claim to want, right??  A perfectly balanced game.

If it weren't for regen, or if Miranda had a cost for regen, they could be balanced without being a game that could quite literally have taken hours to play assuming equal dice. Also, balance isn't usually used to refer to two identical things, but rather to non-identical things at the same cost being equal. 55 point miranda vs 55 point miranda isn't something balance is worried about. 55 points of miranda vs 55 points of not-miranda is what balance is concerned with. 

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17 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

But what if you want to compete at the very highest level?

Then don't expect it to always be fun.  NASCAR is "drive fast and turn left."  The scenery doesn't change, and I'll bet they get bored sometimes.

15 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

If it weren't for regen, or if Miranda had a cost for regen, they could be balanced without being a game that could quite literally have taken hours to play assuming equal dice. Also, balance isn't usually used to refer to two identical things, but rather to non-identical things at the same cost being equal. 55 point miranda vs 55 point miranda isn't something balance is worried about. 55 points of miranda vs 55 points of not-miranda is what balance is concerned with. 

If tournament players are only going to seek the best 1% of the game so they will win tournaments, you can change the points, you can change the pilots, and/or you can change the abilities.  But a stalemate will happen.  It not a reflection on the game, it's not a reflection on the designers, and it's not a reflection on the players.   It's a reflection on how the game is approached and played. 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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11 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

If it weren't for regen, or if Miranda had a cost for regen, they could be balanced without being a game that could quite literally have taken hours to play assuming equal dice. Also, balance isn't usually used to refer to two identical things, but rather to non-identical things at the same cost being equal. 55 point miranda vs 55 point miranda isn't something balance is worried about. 55 points of miranda vs 55 points of not-miranda is what balance is concerned with. 

Miranda DOES have a cost for regen. It’s 6 points, called twin laser turret. If her regen was completely free of cost then you’d see other turrets on her. 

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1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

Then don't expect it to always be fun.  NASCAR is "drive fast and turn left."  I'll bet they get bored sometimes.

If tournament players are only going to seek the best 1% of the game so they will win tournaments, you can change the points, you can change the pilots, and/or you can change the abilities.  But a stalemate will happen.  It not a reflection on the game, it's not a reflection on the designers, and it's not a reflection on the players.   It's a reflection on how the game is approached and played. 

^ This. You get what you ask for, even when you ask tacitly.

Edited by Scopes

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1 minute ago, sozin said:

8 of the top 8 Rebels in the big Mass Regional Swiss today. Something like 13 of 16 IIRC Rebs. 

The competitive scene is off the rails right now, and the driver is asleep at the wheel. I have been on this game for every wave, playtested the first six waves, and led the drive to collect data since 2014 via ListJuggler, and I have never seen it like this before. We are in Crazytown.

Legion couldn't have come out sooner. (R.I.P. Soontir)

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