Is Legion WYSIWYG?

[LordUrban 62]

11 minutes ago, guest450670 said:

So if it is WYSIWYG, you might as well chuck out the other two weapon cards that you didn't attach to your at-rt, that seems ridiculous.

You could always magnetize them.

[Lickintoad 146]

4 minutes ago, LordUrban said:

You could always magnetize them.

Magnetic cards would be awesome. 

[guest450670 7]

The cards are there to track what's on the board, this is not war40k where you have to read through a printed list, these are highly visible cards placed right next to the playing area.

As a player you should always be looking at your opponents cards, you will need to keep track of what weapons or abilities are exhausted or not.

Its probably easier to spot your opponents weapon card than it is to see which weapon is on the model.

WYSIWYG is pointless with the card system legion has.

[LordUrban 62]

What  is the point of the miniatures if not to provide an accurate visual representation of your forces?

[themightyhedgehog 290]

1 hour ago, Hawktel said:

I think that would be fine... till the time I walk my ATST out in the open cause all that RTST has is a flamer, and I find out its a lascannon, and then I'm going to think you try to cheat, and ban you from my table, and your going to feel terrible.

 

Prolly easier to WYSIWYG.

Cuz you know, it’s just so hard to look st your opponents list beforehand...

[GreatMazinkaiser 1,335]

1 hour ago, guest450670 said:

So if it is WYSIWYG, you might as well chuck out the other two weapon cards that you didn't attach to your at-rt, that seems ridiculous.

If you're not magnetizing said weapons you're doing it wrong. It's bloody easy. On the AT-ST/T-47 you barely need to do it at all.

[UnitOmega 2,818]

58 minutes ago, LordUrban said:

What  is the point of the miniatures if not to provide an accurate visual representation of your forces?

Because they're the physical fiddly painted bits. And to look really cool. 

I mean, what, are you going to get mad if you play on a snow board, and the other guy has forest terrain-painted bases? Or what if people use Stormtrooper officer or shocktrooper colors (so red or blue stripes/details) for their generic stormtroopers? Like, I get if they want to avoid confusion for OP but their other games aren't that strict. The minis will never tell you, say, what comms upgrade or what grenades a unit has equipped. Why get so fussed about the weapons? 

[DarkHorse 786]

If it is not intended to be WYSIWYG, why bother having both MPL-57 and Z-6 models in the squad boxes? Why not just a generic missile rotary ion launcher cannon heavy weapon model if they don't intend you to actually use the actual weapon model that corresponds with the card?

 

Some pretty solid reductio ad absurdum going on in this thread too especially when it comes to Farm Boy.

[GreatMazinkaiser 1,335]

1 hour ago, guest450670 said:

The cards are there to track what's on the board, this is not war40k where you have to read through a printed list, these are highly visible cards placed right next to the playing area.

As a player you should always be looking at your opponents cards, you will need to keep track of what weapons or abilities are exhausted or not.

Its probably easier to spot your opponents weapon card than it is to see which weapon is on the model.

WYSIWYG is pointless with the card system legion has.

 

Yay, I get soon to be obsolete battlefield crowding components vs. physical indicators of what my figures are actually equipped with... this is such a huge benefit!

[codegnave 313]

I doubt they will require it, with the cards and their previous minis games as evidence.

Doesnt really affect me either way though. Casual all the way lol

Edited March 29, 2018 by codegnave

[UnitOmega 2,818]

23 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

If it is not intended to be WYSIWYG, why bother having both MPL-57 and Z-6 models in the squad boxes?

This I think goes back to how Legion is supposed to be simple and easy to grasp - when you take a heavy weapon upgrade card, you add the specified heavy weapon mini. That handles the extra soldier mini it adds and the weapon dice, but without any like extra terminology or weird fiddly about how any ol' trooper might be the upgraded Ion guy, etc. But you also know exactly what you're adding and what it means. 

It's this same simplicity which is why I think any WYSIWYG is going to be limited in Legion, the way the game is written and presented makes it look like they're not aiming for the "If you have the Mortar glued on your AT-ST it better have the card equipped!" crowd. Like, wouldn't the assembly instructions say pretty clearly if it was intended to be that way? 

Edited March 29, 2018 by UnitOmega

[Ranger421 36]

They include led the blank pegs w the atst for the guys w extreme ocd.   The problem w the rebels is I don’t want to have 9 atrt s, so I can have any configuration I think I need.  Hopefully, it won’t every come to that, (if I ever play in an official tournament, ever!!). 

[guest450670 7]

1 hour ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

 

Yay, I get soon to be obsolete battlefield crowding components vs. physical indicators of what my figures are actually equipped with... this is such a huge benefit!

I'm not really sure what your getting at.

The cards are part and parcel of the game. Even if it ends up being WYSIWYG, I'm sure in tournament you will still need all the cards present and next to the battlefield. If you don't like component crowding then your going to have a problem.

[Dosiere 478]

3 hours ago, guest450670 said:

So if it is WYSIWYG, you might as well chuck out the other two weapon cards that you didn't attach to your at-rt, that seems ridiculous.

I consider it more of a quality of life thing and a courtesy to the opponent rather than a hard rule.  I’ve never refused a game over it, nor would I expect you to buy 9 different minis to represent a single load out change. 

It’s simply that I consider WYSIWYG (within reason) to lead to a better play experience due to less confusion.  Becuase of that I am going to encourage it and will myself go to great lengths with my own minis to achieve it, but I don’t expect other to do the same though I will notice and appreciate it if they do.

Magnetizing certain components is both simple and cheap; I highly recommend it.  There are lots of video tutorials on it as well.  

The bottom line for me is that there are two extremes on the argument, and they are to be avoided. I once had a guy who just proxied everything, didn’t care about it at all.  Styrofoam cups for drop pods, no special weapons visually represented anywhere - it was legitimately confusing  Another hombre became quite agitated that I hadn’t in his opinion modeled enough grenades and pistols on my tactical or devastator squads and shouldn’t use them in the game... as long as the other player falls somewhere in between I’m good! 

[GreatMazinkaiser 1,335]

1 hour ago, guest450670 said:

I'm not really sure what your getting at.

The cards are part and parcel of the game. Even if it ends up being WYSIWYG, I'm sure in tournament you will still need all the cards present and next to the battlefield. If you don't like component crowding then your going to have a problem.

Played X-wing before? Compared the Jumpmaster card and it's actual stats recently? A gun's a gun's a gun...

The models are components too; you should have the required component to play the game. Back in the day we either magnetized our sponson guns or fielded them as is in every single game, and that was when you had to buy extra metal parts just to equip them proper. Compared to the bad old days requiring people to have the correct part (which comes in the box) present on the model is quite trivial and can reasonably be expected.

[UnitOmega 2,818]

1 hour ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

A gun's a gun's a gun...

Nope, gun's on a card. The little bit of plastic has no mechanical component on the game, unless FFG says it does. While troopers say "add the so-and-so mini", vehicle Hardpoints do not. 

And since Legion has been very explicitly said to be aimed at being accessible, while I'm sure magnetizing is encouraged and easy, it should not be required by the game, unless FFG sells you magnets. Painting isn't even required, though obviously encouraged.

You come with the assumption that "a gun's a gun" because that's how other games work, but at the very least, such a requirement is not stated in the L2P, in the RRG or any assembly instructions. We will see if it is required by OP for organized play events, but FFG has been pretty loose on that before. Hey, does anybody know if Runewars is WYSIWYG? 

[UnitOmega 2,818]

Posting right after because this is a seperate thought. I don't know how it works so well for other minis games, but the cards are obviously a key component of list building an organization here. And while we don't have OP guidelines fo r Legion yet, we have seen what FFG has done with other games.

Specifically, they've clarified what is open and secret information before. Stuff like your list and upgrades is all open. You can't tell what an enemy has equipped at a glance (such as noted with the T-47 rear weapons which don't look very different), you ****ing ask him. And he ****ing tells you. It's as easy as that. There's no like weird confusion or strict rules needed. You don't even have to ask him you can walk around the table and look at the card, but if the opponent is right there you can just ask. 

[DerBaer 1,223]

WYSIWYG leads to a better play experience due to less confusion, especially for Organized Play. In my opinion, to confuse your opponent with misleading minis is in a dark grey area to nearly cheating.

I've magnetized LOTS of minis, especially Warmachine Warjacks. It has never been a problem.

And I'm old enough to remember a time before magnetizing became popular. I've even bought several copies of the same model to play WYSIWYG.

All that being said, I REALLY doubt that FFG will have WYSIWYG as a mandatory rule for Organized Play. From a business point of view, they want casual tabletoppers in their community. Players, that don't have skills or knowledge to magnetize their figures. And I think they don't want a TO to tell a 14 year old Star Wars fan that he can't compete, just because his AT-ST mini has the wrong gun. And being a TO for several games for many years, I really don't want to be that TO, that made a kid cry ...

[Shadows of the Future 94]

27 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

WYSIWYG leads to a better play experience due to less confusion, especially for Organized Play. In my opinion, to confuse your opponent with misleading minis is in a dark grey area to nearly cheating.

I've magnetized LOTS of minis, especially Warmachine Warjacks. It has never been a problem.

And I'm old enough to remember a time before magnetizing became popular. I've even bought several copies of the same model to play WYSIWYG.

All that being said, I REALLY doubt that FFG will have WYSIWYG as a mandatory rule for Organized Play. From a business point of view, they want casual tabletoppers in their community. Players, that don't have skills or knowledge to magnetize their figures. And I think they don't want a TO to tell a 14 year old Star Wars fan that he can't compete, just because his AT-ST mini has the wrong gun. And being a TO for several games for many years, I really don't want to be that TO, that made a kid cry ...

Another thing that kind of works against the WYSIWYG principle is that the physical loadouts are actually a great way to differentiate minis on the battlefield. Sure, they aren't a massive thing in appearance, but they can easily be enough for things like the AT-RT to differentiate which one is which, and the same with the other vehicles with the options.

[Hawktel 291]

What you do on your own table is fine.

In Organized Play I'd expect it to be WYSIWYG. And I somewhat hope they put in a must be painted rule. 

 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

I find WYSIWYG to be ridiculous. You're seriously looking at an inch of plastic to determine what weapon I have instead of just asking me or looking at my cards?

[Hawktel 291]

Why are you playing this game? Why are you trying to make it harder for your opponent to play? Why are you stuck on that this game has models that represent things. Why don't you just play with bottle caps with notes glued on them? No money spent, the rules are free...

I on the other hand want my opponent to have a good time. I want them to not have to do anything but look on the table and see what the game is and the game state. My miniatures are getting painted, will be based, and each thing I play will be properly represented. Cause I respect the time and dedication my opponent put into spending their money on the game, and showing up to play.

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Hawktel
Spelling is hard

[Hrathen 1,463]

I don't think it will be a rule, but it is a courtesy.  I just finished magnetising the weapons for my AT-RTs and I am glad I did.  I have been playing with two lately (that is only a couple of games but) having different weapons actually on the model to help me remember which has the rotary blaster and  which has the laser cannon is nice.

[Indy_com 1,144]

FFG like cards and encourage modification.

If this game was WYSIWYG, the components should be magnetised out of the box and you shouldn't have to pry the back of the AT-ST to magnetise the mortar.

The cards are included so that you can show what you have in your list, without needing about 30+ models so you can actually field the list you want.

Also, Luke has no pistol on his model but has a pistol as a weapon. Where is the pistol I glue onto him to be able to shoot it?

If this is a WYSIWYG game he should have an additional pistol arm in the box.

Just use the cards and tell your opponent what you brought, just like every other FFG Star Wars miniatures game.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

22 minutes ago, Indy_com said:

Also, Luke has no pistol on his model but has a pistol as a weapon. Where is the pistol I glue onto him to be able to shoot it?

It's holstered on his leg.