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AintNoPoser

Stop with "scum and villainy" faction

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I would actually buy Legion if they drop the CIS forces. As much as Epsiode 1 was a hot mess that is still painful to watch for some scenes, the few high points were stellar. I want my droidekas.

 

Give me that and I’ll buy Legion. Otherwise the GCW figures are the same hashed over people that I’ve had Star Wars fans obsess over for 40 years. Give me something a bit different than another game’s take on General Veers or Luke and Vader. 

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@boogle22 Define "fully fleshed out." Do you mean just enough units to fill all the slots and give a decent variation of armies or "everything used up forever?"

I too am not a huge fan of the actual prequel films (they're fine, but not really what I wanted out of a "Star Wars" film, but when they came out they were Star Wars I could see in theaters!!!) but the Clone Wars cartoon is very well done, with better usage of the characters in my opinion. That's why I would like to see CIS/Republic units, not for the actual prequel films. 

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I mean at least 2-3 options per army for every unit type. To elaborate on my mercenary idea, instead of having a scum and villany army why not just be able to buy some mercenaries for either side. Of course restrictions will need to be made. You could even bet on them at the beginning of the game the way you did in samurai swords. You mean the clone wars cartoon from cartoon network, or the cgi one?

Edited by boogle22

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well war games based on WWII also have only two factions. But they have plenty of armies, even armies not so famous like Brasilians or Indians

SO I guess we may see armies of wookies, Sullustans, Mustafarians etc.

Maybe usable as support troops or by themselves as full standing army

 

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12 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@boogle22 Define "fully fleshed out." Do you mean just enough units to fill all the slots and give a decent variation of armies or "everything used up forever?"

I too am not a huge fan of the actual prequel films (they're fine, but not really what I wanted out of a "Star Wars" film, but when they came out they were Star Wars I could see in theaters!!!) but the Clone Wars cartoon is very well done, with better usage of the characters in my opinion. That's why I would like to see CIS/Republic units, not for the actual prequel films. 

I remember Star Wars before the PT and before Clone Wars. A time before Obi-Wan Kenobi was written as the cattiest SOB ever to walk the Outer Rim. :P

Anyway, I digress. There are so many ways for forces other than GCW Rebels and Imps to be included, with or without adding new factions, that speculation seems kinda silly. They could do it like X-Wing where mercs are their own thing. They could to it like Armada where they're not a separate faction. They could do it like IA's skirmish where certain cards / abilities allow limited faction blending.

Boba Fett is coming to the game, there's no way he isn't. Aside from the fact that a ton of people will wanna run him in Legion, FFG isn't oblivious to the notion that Star Wars RPG'ers want nice minis to put on their tables, too. 

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@boogle22 Reasonable expectation in my opinion. That's about what I hope for/ would expect be the earliest point to start adding new factions.

CGI Clone wars, not the short vignettes, although those weren't bad for what they were. My issue with having "mercenaries" is then it dilutes the differences between the two factions. If a particular mercenary unit is good, then it suddenly shows up in every Rebel and Empire list. 

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I just want all the cool Star Was stuff. For me, that means more than just the GCW era. I don't need it now, but would love all the eras eventually. The GCW will keep me happy for a long time, but eventually I will want more.

Part of the discussion of other factions stems from not having as much to talk about while we wait for release. Now that we have the game in hand, I suspect the forums will be flooded with different topics.

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As an X-Wing player, I understand the complaint of "the meta will be dominated by weird EU stuff that doesn't look like Star Wars." I really do.

The problem is, there's not much stuff that's "real" Star Wars. 

They're already scraping the bottom of the barrel after just one wave - the Rebels don't use AT-RTs in any Star Wars movie.

We've got new stuff incoming every month, right? Just take the basic trooper units - what happens once we've already got stormtroopers, snowtroopers, scout troopers, death troopers, shoretroopers, rebel Endor troopers, rebel Hoth troopers, and rebel fleet troopers? Because that's probably going to happen by some time this summer. 

We are already doomed to have this game not necessarily look like "real" Star Wars, and have a whole bunch of weird EU stuff, whether it's a bunch of weird EU Rebels and Empire or a bunch of weird EU other factions. 

I personally think that for game design reasons, we need more factions. I love clone troopers, so that would be my faction of choice if there were more, but I'm ok if it's Scum, First Order, Resistance, Gungans, Yuzzan Vong, Black Sun, or whatever else. 

I'm not really thinking about theme here, I'm thinking about the game.

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5 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

There definitely needs to be more factions.  4 is generally a really healthy number for a new game.

Runewars started with just two, and then added two more relatively soon. Let's hope that's what FFG does here. 

To use an X-Wing parallel, I'm expecting the core set and wave 1 to be like the equivalent of X-Wing's Waves 1-3. They'll be the iconic "real" Star Wars stuff, and then more stuff from other factions and timelines will be added, with FFG frequently using errata and targeted "fix" cards to keep the iconic stuff viable. 

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I personally think FFG is aiming not to have to need to directly "fix" these original, iconic units - they have very generic but simple keywords which will probably never go out of style, a nice rounded cost and easy to grasp balance points. We immediately spiraled out to Fleet Troopers and Snowtroopers and they also have different keywords and very noticable differences in balancing factors. While FFG has said they want the game to be very "simple" I think time spent working on that aspect means they got a pretty good grasp of how the game clicks. They might not have as many intrinsic bells and whistles, but when you're plunking units on the table you will probably still be considering "can I solve this with just Rebel Troopers/Stormtroopers" for a while. And, multiple factions in a release cycle would mean FFG doesn't have to push hard for Rebels and Imperials to get more weird niche units because they can sell to all those people who are like "Not buying more until I get my CIS". 

And while personally, "doesn't look like Star Wars" doesn't stop me (because sometimes SW doesn't look like SW) there's plenty of easy choices you could make which a casual fan could identify. Mandos (coming in a couple flavors!), Jabba's tatooine guards, the two criminal gangs from TFA, the many criminal elements from TCW, desert skiffs even a pet Rancor. There's even mercenary units in Star Wars: Commander you can see provide some framework. 

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Its all Star Wars, and that's what I am happy about.  Empire and Jedi are my favorite movies, but Maul is my Favorite character.  I would field an Army of what ever faction, if I had a playable and viable Maul figure in it. (And I'm 40 so its not like I am some youngster who only knows the PT)  In Forces of Corruption, playing the Scum faction Tyber Zahn was always my favorite.  Galactic battle grounds, Jedi or Sith faction for hours and hours and hours, still love that game.  WotC fringe, Meh, but still made it interesting, WotC just never gave fringe factions the right kind of love to really make them viable as a stand alone faction  So I think it could be exciting to have additional factions, with their own sorta thing, it changes how the game works, because you have to possibly plan for more things to happen or to come at you. Makes it so you have to be more balanced in your builds.  Is there a rush, maybe not, is it fun to speculate sure.

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Something to remember with the issues with X-Wing.  A big part of X-Wing's problems stem from its incredibly small model count.  You essentially get 2 or 3 "things" in your entire army; sometimes 4 if you're feeling spammy.  That means that if anything is good, its probably good enough to make up half the game or more.  Get a couple of these and anything classic is wiped out in short order.  egion has a lot more room for variety, particularly if it focuses on being character driven.  At minimum it feels like you're taking 8 "things" and while there's always spam potential, there seems to be a lot more room to keep OT stuff viable.

Spinning out other factions actually probably helps more than it hurts too.  Imagine Dengar's ship had been Imperial like Fett originally had been?  The Imperial identity would have essentially been wiped out completely.

Edited by LunarSol

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The fact that there's only two factions is the reason I'm not getting into Legion. At least not for now. Still keeping a close eye on it.

I'm getting a bit tired of every FFG Star Wars game being primarily Rebels vs Imperials (even if the game is fun). Heck, Destiny initially seemed interesting just because it featured more than just the Original Trilogy stuff. Until Legion reveals that there will be more faction options than the same two factions I've played so much of in X-Wing and Armada, there's just not a side I can latch onto and really want to play as.

Legion: Rebels vs Imperials
X-Wing: Rebels vs Imperials vs Scum
Armada: Rebels vs Imperials
Imperial Assault: Rebels vs Imperials vs Scum
Star Wars the Card Game: Rebels vs Imperials (with sub-factions within those two, if I understand the game right).
Rebellion: Rebels vs Imperials
Empire vs Rebellion: the name of this game says it for me.

More factions, whether their scum, prequel, or sequel, at least give more diversity for players. If not in mechanics and/or playstyle, then at least visually.

Edited by Derpzilla88

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Expanding beyond 2 (maaaaybe 3) factions in legion is a terrible idea.  It splits the player base and one or more factions are likely to be ignored except by a small niche minority.  This will lead to that faction or factions being a loss to add units to.  And honestly, I don't want to see a mandalorian army with a corps, heavy and support.  Why?  Because nobody cares about anything other than mandalorians with jetpacks.  That is what makes them interesting.  We don't need a full ewok force because the interesting thing about ewoks would be having a large group of primitive fighters and that can be done as a unit rather than as a faction.

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Just now, devin.pike.1989 said:

Expanding beyond 2 (maaaaybe 3) factions in legion is a terrible idea.  It splits the player base and one or more factions are likely to be ignored except by a small niche minority.  This will lead to that faction or factions being a loss to add units to.  And honestly, I don't want to see a mandalorian army with a corps, heavy and support.  Why?  Because nobody cares about anything other than mandalorians with jetpacks.  That is what makes them interesting.  We don't need a full ewok force because the interesting thing about ewoks would be having a large group of primitive fighters and that can be done as a unit rather than as a faction.

The interesting thing about Ewoks is the opportunity to set history straight and slaughter them by the score.

Ahem.

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I only see the need for 6 factions (which I don’t think is too much). 

Imperial

Rebel

Resistance

First Order

Republic

CIS.

 

Ewoks, Gungans etc could be units within their respective factions.

Maybe a capped amount of mercenaries that anyone can buy to introduce Boba, Jabba’s goons, Hondo, etc. 

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@Derpzilla88 I’ve heard rumors that the Mouse is discouraging his license holders from releasing prequel centric material. I hope this changes. While the acting was often wooden and there were certainly cornball elements the Prequels had some great vehicles and character designs.

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5 minutes ago, LordUrban said:

@Derpzilla88 I’ve heard rumors that the Mouse is discouraging his license holders from releasing prequel centric material. I hope this changes. While the acting was often wooden and there were certainly cornball elements the Prequels had some great vehicles and character designs.

This keeps getting trudged out but there’s prequel content being released and referenced everywhere 

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