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NeonWolf

Rebel Tactics: How to deal with the AT-ST

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Let's face it, at least for the first few weeks (months?) Imperial players will be taking AT-ST's, a lot.  Can't say I blame them but since I'm going to be playing Rebels only, I thought I'd start a discussion on how to deal with the beasts.

Currently, I think we have three options, although I'm not sure which one has the most merit at the moment.

Option 1: Defeat the unit.  While we Rebels have the ability to do this, we would have to focus quite a few resources on a single model for multiple turns to accomplish this since it has 11 wounds.  The T-47 gets a decent primary weapon with Impact 3 and can get an additional Impact if it can get in the AT-ST's rear arc, but that is slightly over 1/3 of the AT-ST's wound on a perfect roll.  Realistically it would take a single T-47 at least 4 turns to defeat a single AT-ST.   Perhaps the fastest way to defeat a single AT-ST is to bring 3 AT-RT's with Laser Cannon upgrades.  This means you are devoting 270 points to these units before any other upgrades, for the ability to hopefully do 9 wounds to a single model in a single turn.  This is a lot of points to try and remove a single model.

Option 2: Neutralize the unit.  This option means we are taking MPL-57 upgrades in our Trooper squads.  We don't have to destroy the AT-ST if we can just keep 2 Ion Tokens on it each turn.  This is significantly cheaper than trying to destroy an AT-ST outright since 2 MPL-57's only cost 64 points, but being able to shoot your MPL-57 every turn means you are using one of your squads 2 actions to perform a Recover.  This also assumes that your trooper squad isn't suppressed and reduced to a single action each turn.

Option 3: Ignore the unit.  Since Legion is most definitely an objective based game it may be possible to just ignore the AT-ST and hunker your squads down on objectives to win the game.  This option means you dedicate  your points to eliminating your opponents troopers instead of their vehicles to minimize/remove their ability to score objective tokens.  I know this method worked at times in 1st Ed. Bolt Action, but that is a different game so I'm not sure how well the tactic would translate to Legion.

Personally, I think I would lean toward a combination of the first two options.  Using some MPL-57 troopers to reduce the number of actions the AT-ST has along with some dedicated anti-Armor units to put a hurt on the AT-ST at the same time.  You would still have to dedicate a serious number of resources to dealing with this single model.

Have any of you that have actually played some games gained any insight into how to deal with this unit?

Edited by NeonWolf
grammar

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8 minutes ago, blkdymnd said:

What about the classic Hoth tactic of using the airspeeder harpoon to pivot the AT-ST and allowing you to focus fire more effectively on the now exposed back armor?

Well, the harpoon is a Fixed Rear weapon, so that means you have to fly past the AT-ST to get it in your appropriate firing arc.  After that, you get a single red die with which you have to wound the AT-ST.  The red die has 5 hits and a crit, so you have a 75% chance of wounding the AT-ST.  Then, if you accomplish all of that, you can perform a single Pivot, which is only up to 90 degrees. 

It is certainly possible to accomplish all of this, but I think  you would have to be a very skilled pilot, and then hope you don't hit that 25% miss rate on the harpoon, AND have another unit in place that can take advantage of the exposed rear of the AT-ST.  Even then, shooting the AT-ST in the rear only adds Impact 1 to your attack.

This definitely isn't a 1st turn tactic and would take some setting up to take maximum advantage of.  That being said, it's be way cool to pull it off. :)

Edited by NeonWolf

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I think I like the focus fire approach from the ATRTs. Keep in mind that if you bring it down, you're bringing down about a quarter of their army. The laser cannons aren't as good at taking down infantry, but they could knock down a few storm troopers afterwards. 

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4 minutes ago, Dash Two said:

@NeonWolf or ...

Luke vs Unit?

After playing this weekend and watching several demos ... Luke and Vader can do A LOT of damage.

 

Maybe.  Luke get's Impact 2 on the lightsaber and at least has Surge to Crit. On the black dice he gets I believe there are 3 hits, 1 crit, and 1 surge.  This means he has a 1/4 chance of getting a crit and a 3/8 chance of getting a hit, two of which he can convert to a crit with Impact

If the AT-ST chooses to melee back it gets 4 red dice but it can just walk away since a vehicle can't be engaged.

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You use the terrain of course ....

giphy.gif

AT-RT has an impact weapon and might be cheap enough and fast enough to position it out of arc to get some hits in. The Air speeder is also fast enough to come up behind it as well. There are ways. Sadly, you got to scatter your forces so that AT-ST doesn't wreck you before you can kill it.

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32 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Well, the harpoon is a Fixed Rear weapon, so that means you have to fly past the AT-ST to get it in your appropriate firing arc.  After that, you get a single red die with which you have to wound the AT-ST.  The red die has 5 hits and a crit, so you have a 75% chance of wounding the AT-ST.  Then, if you accomplish all of that, you can perform a single Pivot, which is only up to 90 degrees. 

It is certainly possible to accomplish all of this, but I think  you would have to be a very skilled pilot, and then hope you don't hit that 25% miss rate on the harpoon, AND have another unit in place that can take advantage of the exposed rear of the AT-ST.  Even then, shooting the AT-ST in the rear only adds Impact 1 to your attack.

This definitely isn't a 1st turn tactic and would take some setting up to take maximum advantage of.  That being said, it's be way cool to pull it off. :)

Don’t forget the AT-ST’s defense die! It has a 33% chance to block that hit even if you roll it, bringing the overall chances of triggering harpoon down to 50%. 

 

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From what I'm hearing, the thing for rebels to take is just a lot of units, which generally counters any AT-ST build fairly well, as the AT-ST and Vader (until Veers) take up so many points that Imps aren't left with a ton of points for many units. The AT-ST can only shoot 2-3 things per round, you can easily get more units that for the point value. 

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they did provide us with ion guns, they won't do tons of damage, but if you strip an action, they become way less effective. Their guns are middling, but without aim tokens, should only hit half the time, that allows the t47 to swing around. Remember the ion gun can shoot at different targets so your other shots aren't wasted.  Although sometimes getting lucky works. My AtRt got blasted by stormtroopers rolling really well on all white dice with no rerolls.

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@buckero0 The problem with the Ion grenade launchers is that they Exhaust, requiring the unit to take a Refresh action to fire it a second time. So a single Suppression token on the next turn before you can activate that unit means you only have a 1/3 chance of having 2 Actions on that unit to be able to shoot the Ion Grenade again. 

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1 ion hit cripples the AtSt, 1 action means no aim token, no moving and only  shooting unmodified dice, dice which include whites. Sticking one shot has a huge impact and probably why its so expense.

Even AtRt with rotary cannons with 2/8 crits per dice when you are rolling a handful seems decent.

Edited by DarkTrooperZero

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33 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@buckero0 The problem with the Ion grenade launchers is that they Exhaust, requiring the unit to take a Refresh action to fire it a second time. So a single Suppression token on the next turn before you can activate that unit means you only have a 1/3 chance of having 2 Actions on that unit to be able to shoot the Ion Grenade again. 

yeah but if you could shut down a 225pt vehicle with a 34pt upgrade, it wouldn't be balanced. You can take 2-4 ion guns and still shoot their rifles at infantry id you don't recover without wasting actions

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4 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

yeah but if you could shut down a 225pt vehicle with a 34pt upgrade, it wouldn't be balanced. You can take 2-4 ion guns and still shoot their rifles at infantry id you don't recover without wasting actions

oh I agree, was just tossing in the reminder about Recover.

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Depends on terrain. If there are long fire lanes, where the AT-ST can shoot you at range, better bring AT-RTs. If there is enough terrain to sneak up on it, use impact grenades. This should also give you the drop on the imperial infantry as you spend not much points on antiarmour capability. The Snowspeeder is too difficult to maneuvre for me.

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I really don't think it is going to be taken down much in games.  To many resources to kill it.  You really only need to get it to 8hp cause then it is damaged.  I had a damages ATRT for 3 rounds and could not take 2 actions with it.  It was useless (i did forget about its melee attack)  But it still would have taken 2 rounds to get to an enemy.  I like staying away from it!!  I was able to stay away from it cause of the terrain.  It only got a few shoots off the  whole game and damaged the ATRT   But I may have been terrain lucky.

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4 hours ago, NeonWolf said:

Well, the harpoon is a Fixed Rear weapon, so that means you have to fly past the AT-ST to get it in your appropriate firing arc.  After that, you get a single red die with which you have to wound the AT-ST.  The red die has 5 hits and a crit, so you have a 75% chance of wounding the AT-ST.  Then, if you accomplish all of that, you can perform a single Pivot, which is only up to 90 degrees. 

It is certainly possible to accomplish all of this, but I think  you would have to be a very skilled pilot, and then hope you don't hit that 25% miss rate on the harpoon, AND have another unit in place that can take advantage of the exposed rear of the AT-ST.  Even then, shooting the AT-ST in the rear only adds Impact 1 to your attack.

This definitely isn't a 1st turn tactic and would take some setting up to take maximum advantage of.  That being said, it's be way cool to pull it off. :)

You could also fly with wedge who can pivot 360 around to ensure his tail gun faces the AT-ST.

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31 minutes ago, Derrault said:

You could also fly with wedge who can pivot 360 around to ensure his tail gun faces the AT-ST.

If I'm going to pivot freely, I'm going to do it so I can get shots with the Laser cannon on the AT-ST's rear. 

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4 hours ago, jgibbs2 said:

From what I'm hearing, the thing for rebels to take is just a lot of units, which generally counters any AT-ST build fairly well, as the AT-ST and Vader (until Veers) take up so many points that Imps aren't left with a ton of points for many units. The AT-ST can only shoot 2-3 things per round, you can easily get more units that for the point value. 

This. ATST is only viable with Veers. You basically guarantee a scenario loss taking one with Vader against a competitive list. If it doesn't have the grenade launcher (not the mortar launcher) you ignore it. If it has the grenade launcher, Z6 squads and rotary ATRTs (surge crit ftw) fling out plenty of crits. Luke also can decimate it in melee with the double attack command too.

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37 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

If I'm going to pivot freely, I'm going to do it so I can get shots with the Laser cannon on the AT-ST's rear. 

You fly past it with your speeder ability, then you can either harpoon it or pivot and shoot it, then if you chose the first option you pivot

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