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TeethAlmighty

Addressing Game-Changing Mistakes

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Posted (edited)

Hey folks, 

Playing Imperials, and just finished Jyn's mission (High Moon) for the Peacemaker reward. Both rebels and imperials have chosen competitive, strategic gameplay for the campaign.

Very tight game, went 6 rounds, 3 heros wounded and MHD got down to 5 health left but the heros pulled it off and killed Szark.

The problem? After the game resolved, I discovered that the Rebels' heaviest hitter, Mak, had been using two powerful attachments on a one-attachment weapon the whole game. He did not do it deliberately, he was playing someone else's character for them and did not pay close attention to Mak's weapon attachment limit. So, to be clear, this was not cheating. 

However, it definitely had an impact on the mission and on the Rebels strategic use of Mak to achieve their objective. Was it game-breaking? Hard to say. But it contributed to the win. 

As a new Imperial, I wasn't sure how to address this. It's not a DM style game we are playing, the play is very competitive. I considered doing nothing, but that didn't sit well with me given that the peacemaker reward is going to cause headaches for me as an Imperial for the next 7 games. Calling a forfeit and denying the reward of peacemaker felt too heavy handed. One rebel suggested they forgo the credits instead (100 cr per hero) and keep the reward, which seemed fair, but now I'm wondering if even this hamstrings them too much (400 credits is a lot only 4 games in).

Anyways, wondering what you all think and how you may have addressed such problems in the past (on either side). I still want this to be fun for everyone!

 

Edited by TeethAlmighty

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The way I see it is as the Imperial Player (and presumably the owner of the game), you're responsible for all rules, even those of the Rebels.  As long as your Rebels aren't actually trying to cheat, stuff like this is still just as much the Imperial Player's responsibility as it is the Rebels.

 

Probably not what you want to hear, and I totally understand how overwhelming being responsible for everything is.  Frankly, there's almost no way you could have known.  I think the best thing you can do is make sure your Rebels are aware of the mistake, count yourself lucky for having found and addressed it so quickly, and prepare to bring the pain next time.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

The way I see it is as the Imperial Player (and presumably the owner of the game), you're responsible for all rules, even those of the Rebels.  As long as your Rebels aren't actually trying to cheat, stuff like this is still just as much the Imperial Player's responsibility as it is the Rebels.

I agree in principle with this. It's a fair point of view. However, I don't actually own the game - after 2 full campaigns I volunteered to be the imperial for our third campaign to give the owner a chance to play a hero. So when he brings the game over on game day I have to do a lot of setup, build the map, choose my deployments, review the mission parameters and I often let the rebels do their shopping during this time to try to expedite things. I just trust that they are making purchases and applying attachments and such appropriately after 2 full campaigns experience and knowing the rules at this point. So yes, I should be paying attention to it all... but I don't have that much attention 😩

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Probably not what you want to hear, and I totally understand how overwhelming being responsible for everything is.  Frankly, there's almost no way you could have known.  I think the best thing you can do is make sure your Rebels are aware of the mistake, count yourself lucky for having found and addressed it so quickly, and prepare to bring the pain next time.

Ha ha

Now that would be cathartic 😊

That being said, if the positions were reversed, and as an Imperial, I inadvertently break a game rule throughout the mission that contributes to my victory, I'd like to compensate the rebels somehow...

Ever have house rules about such things? 

Edited by TeethAlmighty

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I had something similar in our Hoth campaign where I goofed as IP on the first mission.  I won, but the goof maybe made it harder for the rebels.  We compromised on the mission rewards and progression following the "lost first mission" path, but the Rebels did win the Echo Base Troopers ally.

Not sure that helps you resolve your situation.  Maybe Mak has to play one mission with no mods on his gun?  :D

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, udat said:

I had something similar in our Hoth campaign where I goofed as IP on the first mission.  I won, but the goof maybe made it harder for the rebels.  We compromised on the mission rewards and progression following the "lost first mission" path, but the Rebels did win the Echo Base Troopers ally.

That's an interesting compromise - was everyone on board? 

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Not sure that helps you resolve your situation.  Maybe Mak has to play one mission with no mods on his gun?  :D

 Intriguing...! 🤔

Edited by TeethAlmighty

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2 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

...prepare to bring the pain next time.

Their next mission is Snowcrash (for the echo base troopers). Just checked the polls...80% rebel victory odds...

THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF PAIN I WAS PROMISED

😉

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Ah yeah, it'd be a lot tougher trying to run a campaign if you don't own the game.  I often spend a lot of time preparing for sessions.

 

1 hour ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Now that would be cathartic 😊

That being said, if the positions were reversed, and as an Imperial, I inadvertently break a game rule throughout the mission that contributes to my victory, I'd like to compensate the rebels somehow...

Ever have house rules about such things? 

Hmmm... I do agree that since the rules are widely the Imp's responsibility, you should probably do something to compensate.  As long as it truly is a mistake, maybe give them the balance of the total mission rewards they would've gotten if they would have won and the opportunity to sell anything they bought after that mission (including skills) since their decisions may have been made on resources available at the time.

 

As for when the mistake benefits the Rebels- this might be an extreme example, but here goes:  Last campaign, halfway through the entire campaign, I realized two big rules I'd been playing incorrectly.  First, we were discarding strain when a hero was wounded.  Obviously this is in some cases like giving the heroes a free rest when they're wounded, and in some cases literally saw the heroes see wounding as a strategic action.

 

The other was the fact that I realized units could not perform an action while in a space occupying another unit.  For some reason, I always thought that was the case.  I guess this one could swing more both ways, but since the Rebels typically have an objective to complete, this made it a lot harder for me to block and congest their plans.  

 

When I realized my mistake, I told my Rebels that I would not apply those changes until after the campaign.  In my opinion, it would have seemed kind of skeevey to change the "rules" of the game mid campaign, even if it was done to play more accurately.  Of course, that's kind of an extreme example, again, and I'm not sure I did the right thing.

 

Basically, it sucks no matter what when you screw up a rules thing.

 

8 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Their next mission is Snowcrash (for the echo base troopers). Just checked the polls...80% rebel victory odds...

THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF PAIN I WAS PROMISED

😉

Hey now, I didn't make any promises.  At least those troopers are relatively mediocre as allies.

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I agree with @udat and @Majushi.  The best solution is to give both sides full rewards as though they won.  As it is a side mission it doesn't affect the what the next mission is.

Also...

19 hours ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Very tight game, went 6 rounds, 3 heros wounded and MHD got down to 5 health left but the heros pulled it off and killed Szark.

What!?  It took the Rebels 6 rounds to win High Moon?  That's a moral victory for you right there!  Way to go!  That mission is infamous because of the possibility of the Rebels winning in one or two activations.

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53 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

What!?  It took the Rebels 6 rounds to win High Moon?  That's a moral victory for you right there!  Way to go!  That mission is infamous because of the possibility of the Rebels winning in one or two activations.

No kidding.  I'd even say it's a moral victory for all parties involved, considering the boatload of starting groups in that mission makes the Rebels almost have to take this one fast.  

I know a lot of people say that High Moon is broken because it can be won so quickly, but since playing it I've seen it more as a race against the clock, with the Empire trying to hold the Rebels back for as long as possible.  

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

Hmmm... I do agree that since the rules are widely the Imp's responsibility, you should probably do something to compensate.  As long as it truly is a mistake, maybe give them the balance of the total mission rewards they would've gotten if they would have won and the opportunity to sell anything they bought after that mission (including skills) since their decisions may have been made on resources available at the time.

I like this idea. As a new Imperial with limited access to the game, I have no doubt I'll be making some errors along the way. Good to have a rule of thumb. 

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As for when the mistake benefits the Rebels...When I realized my mistake, I told my Rebels that I would not apply those changes until after the campaign.  In my opinion, it would have seemed kind of skeevey to change the "rules" of the game mid campaign, even if it was done to play more accurately.  Of course, that's kind of an extreme example, again, and I'm not sure I did the right thing. 

I'd say that as long as everyone is on a level playing field when a mission starts  (e.g. we all know the rule now) you're good to go. Unless, of course, people built their characters in a particular way with those mistaken game mechanics in mind. But that was a very nice act!

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Hey now, I didn't make any promises.  At least those troopers are relatively mediocre as allies.

 Lol

Here's hoping! 

Edited by TeethAlmighty

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12 hours ago, Majushi said:

I would suggest that what is done is done.

Give the Imperial what they would've got for winning, and leave what the Rebels actually got as the same.

And learn from the mistakes.

Thanks for the response! Very much in line with what  @subtrendy2 and @udat were saying. Funny, I never considered rewarding *myself* as an option, but that has a much nicer feel to it! 

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2 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I agree with @udat and @Majushi.  The best solution is to give both sides full rewards as though they won.  As it is a side mission it doesn't affect the what the next mission is.

Lots of unanimity now. I've got a good feeling about this solution! 

2 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Also...

What!?  It took the Rebels 6 rounds to win High Moon?  That's a moral victory for you right there!  Way to go!  That mission is infamous because of the possibility of the Rebels winning in one or two activations.

 Ha ha, thanks! They chose to go the route of clearing away several of my groups before calling out Szark. Thankfully that gave me a chance to build up some threat and create a wall around him at the bottom of the map. 

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1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

No kidding.  I'd even say it's a moral victory for all parties involved, considering the boatload of starting groups in that mission makes the Rebels almost have to take this one fast.  

It felt like a really close, tight mission all the way!

1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

I know a lot of people say that High Moon is broken because it can be won so quickly, but since playing it I've seen it more as a race against the clock, with the Empire trying to hold the Rebels back for as long as possible.  

That was us, exactly. I squirreled Szark away at the bottom right corner, using impassable and blocking terrain to my advantage to defend against Diala's force throw (I hate hate hate that ability lol), but they were able to chip away at my wall of defenders effectively with long range, focused attacks, mostly from Mak using Ambush and blast from the underbarrel attachment.

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Posted (edited)
On 19/03/2018 at 5:33 PM, subtrendy2 said:
I think the best thing you can do is make sure your Rebels are aware of the mistake, count yourself lucky for having found and addressed it so quickly, and prepare to bring the pain next time.
 
On 19/03/2018 at 5:24 TeethAlmighty said:

Their next mission is Snowcrash (for the echo base troopers). Just checked the polls...80% rebel victory odds...

THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF PAIN I WAS PROMISED

 

Quote

Hey now, I didn't make any promises.  At least those troopers are relatively mediocre as allies.

I am happy to report that the new rebel odds for winning Snowcrash have dropped to 66.7 %  🙄

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/23606968#23606968

Edited by TeethAlmighty

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