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vlad9969

Total Escape games colorado regional

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So I went to the regional at total escape games and my friend is in 17 going into the last round and wins ended up 17 when 4 people he played made it he beat two head to head.  He did not move a spot and missed the cut witch is mathematically impossible.  So I got angry the Judge used fool language as I was leaving and I shared back a little and left.  The police called me soon after saying someone in the store heard me say I was going for my gun, I don't own a gun as I could rip him in half anyway.  So in short do not go to this store I have been cheated there many times and so have a lot of people.  Please do not give them any regionals next year they always mess them up look at x-wing.

 

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This is not, at all, the accounting of what happened at the Colorado Regionals at Total Escape Games.  The TO has run every Destiny tournament I have ever attended in the greater Denver area.  He is very friendly and very thorough in every ruling he makes when called to assist at a table.  As every other FFG tournament (of which I am aware) rankings are made by Strength of Schedule (SoS), with tie-breakers falling to Extended Strength of Schedule (eSOS) and past that, I believe it is settled by a coin-flip or other mathematically random method (i.e. die roll of a d6, etc.).

Your friend was a pleasure to play against despite my deck rolling perfectly for 2 rounds and beating him in Swiss play handily.  He was nothing but smiles and laughed at the speed at which my decklist/dice tore his characters apart.  I was also a player that ended Swiss at 4-3 and made the cut due to my significantly difficult SoS (compared to the other 4-3 record players).  Your friend had a SoS that was among the weakest of the 4-3 records and, thus, did not make the cut.  The TO did absolutely nothing wrong, did not manipulate placements, did not manually assign pairings - nothing.  He left everything to the pairing program he was using.  Your friend was bubbled out of the cut due to his SoS...nothing more, nothing less.  It happens to even the best of players.  There was a regional held that same day where a top player in the US was bubbled out of his top 8 cut by 0.02 points.  It's a fact of playing competitive tournament play and your friend wasn't even making a scene about it.

This gets me on to the most pressing point.  The confrontation was started by YOU and the TO responded in kind due to your bullying and insulting behavior.  You threw the first verbal insults, you started cussing him out, insulting other players, insulting the store.  The TO responded in language that you were able to understand - which at that point was purely vulgar language.  You threatened violence, though with a weapon or fists I did not hear, yet you still threatened violence.  Your behavior was completely uncalled for and unprovoked and the way the TO reacted and handled the situation was as best he could with the situation you presented.  The contact of the police was purely necessary because multiple sources heard you make a threat to "get your gun and shoot the whole ******* place up".  This type of threat is NEVER taken lightly in any situation no matter how many smoke/mirrors you can try to enact to save face.  Among the group of players that attended that regional that knew you and had had frequent interactions with you through various games, you have never been a peaceful attendee of any event.

I, highly, recommend that you decide to present yourself accurately.  Unfortunately, the way that you presented yourself at the store - before you hopped online hiding behind a computer screen - made me embarrassed for you.  You can continue to try to blame everyone else for YOUR actions, but you had over 50 witnesses that can discount your story.  I am sure that I am not the only one that believes this, but we truly do want you to enjoy playing Destiny, but if your behavior escalates out of control like this at frequent events, maybe competitive play is not the right gaming scene for you.

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threatening to go get your gun and kill people is not the appropriate response to any situation. id thank your lucky stores you are not in lockup right now. i would suggest getting some professional help.

 

that said, the store was not using tome and that is not really ok. and cutting to top 16 is also wrong. sounds like the entire event was messed up.

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Fendra1 nailed it. I'll break this down point by point. 

 

Forty-four players attended the Denver regional event at Total Escape games. Regional events are formal events :

 

Quote

Formal This tournament level expects players to possess at least a minimal amount of experience. Players should be familiar with the game rules, and be prepared to exercise that knowledge to play at a reasonable pace. Players are expected to avoid confusion about their actions and refrain from other sloppy play mistakes. The focus is a friendly competitive environment. The Formal Tier is used for Regional Championship events.

 

Per the SWD Tournament Regulations the event should have been seven rounds with a cut to top 8. The Tournament Organizer (TO) elected to do a cut to top 16. This is not in accordance with the SWD Tournament Regulations document. In this case, your friend would have been nine slots away from even having a shot at the finals. The TO made a judgment call, and your friend at 4-3 had a shot of making it. 

 

image.png.6b3e8d0c103c96a1a07da8d25f8f436f.png

The tie-breakers were handled correctly. The following excerpt from the SWD Tournament Regulations document explains tie-breakers:

image.png.667c4fb6d9c6899f22f159c912268827.png

The TO used Cryodex to generate pairings and track SoS and Extended SoS. I have attached an export of the Cryodex file. I also took the time to import the data to the TOME client, which is the official tournament client. It generated similar SoS and Extended SoS values. Interestingly enough, once the numbers were entered into TOME 17th and 18th place swapped, as well as 9th and 10th place. The TO should have used TOME as it is the official client. Had they followed correct procedure your friend would have been another spot away from the top 16 cut. 

EDIT: There were 2 Nicks, 2 Erics, and 2 Matts. I mixed up one of the rounds when transcribing the 154 games to TOME! I feel really bad for damaging the reputation of Cryodex. It's great software and I still prefer it to TOME! Mr. Advark will be get a free dinner from me if he makes it to Worlds!

Destiny does not use head to head results for determining SoS. SoS is contingent on the scores of your opponents. The other 4-3 players played better players throughout the event and ended up with a higher position. It wasn't some big conspiracy: it's math. 
2g8UylN.jpg

 

On to the final issue: 

You instigated, and then escalated a shouting match with a TO. After leaving the store you threatened to come back with a gun. This was reported to the police by the owner of the restaurant located next to the game store. A copy of this report will be forwarded to FFG. I also took the liberty of forwarding it to EVERY game store in the Colorado area that hosts Destiny and X-Wing events. A FLGS should be a safe haven, there is no room for threats of violence. I will not stand for someone threatening members of my community. 

Edited by rustee
Removed incorrect data.

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Well tierdal I was the TO at that event and I used Cryodex which is an officially sanctioned software for the event. As for cutting to top 16 I did it because I felt that it was the fairest way for the people to get a good chance. So you can say it’s messed up but I have used that software for multiple tournaments as well as the regionals for xwing out here

Edited by Djbst75

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I never threatened him with any type of violence I threatened to contact ffg nothing more he is the one who used inappropriate language first as I was walking out the door and you also make 5 out of the people he played out of 7 were in the top 16 that sounds like a like a strong sos.  And yes I did start the conflict as my friend got jacked out of his tokens for top 16 someone had to say something he is 17th wins and stays at 17th as people he beat head to head get in that is the worst system ever.  And your quote you have me saying is very false and made up anyone who knows me knows  I don't threaten with a gun I don't even own one. And my friend can verify I never threatened violence against any one.

Edited by vlad9969

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Yeah... did you hear the rest of the story? I can only pass on what I have read about this situation, but it sounds like the player in 15th dropped after he claimed his prizes and your buddy would have made the cut. 

Also what was allegedly reported was that the restaurant next door had to call the cops based on what they heard you shouted. Either way, if you are causing this much trouble for something that is not even pertaining to you, you need to reel it back and get some anger management going. 

Let your friend fight his own battles. Be adults. it's a game.

if you are not enjoying it (clearly you are not), don't play. 

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Kyle Hannigan's SoS

Opponent Points SoS
1 4 0.571429
2 3 0.428571
3 5 0.714286
4 4 0.571429
5 3 0.428571
6 5 0.714286
7 3 0.428571
  Total 3.857143
  Average 0.55102

 

His SoS was totaled correctly (opponent's score divided by games they played, add those all together and divide by total opponents). Every player who beat him into the cut was 4-2 prior to the final round giving them a boost against another 4-2 player (who ended 5-2) instead of Kyle getting dragged down by a 3-3 (who went 3-4).

Another note, head to head is not a tie breaker for Destiny. It used to be for some games, but it has been removed. Additionally, head to head, when it was used, was defined as you having wins against EVERYONE in your point bracket, so that would not have helped as there were players he did not play against. Ranks 12-16, the only people he possibly could have beaten in SOS all won their games keeping them out of reach of Kyle. It was a perfect storm to keep him in 17th. That sucks, but no reason to lose your mind over it.

Cryodex ran this tournament and ran it perfectly to the tournament regulations. The TO validated the results in TOME as well after this kerfuffle.

I'm not sure why he did a top 16 instead of a top 8 as per the tournament regulations, but that's the only TO mistake I see here. Thought it is outside the current issue.

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You could do the event by hand if you really wanted. All that matters is that your calculation is right, not what you use to get it.

Sorry for this guy's buddy who other then having a violent friend that can't read the rules is reported as being pleasant. His name is one attached to this fiasco and he's probably going to face some issue gaming in that area by association.

Edited by ScottieATF

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23 hours ago, Djbst75 said:

Well tierdal I was the TO at that event and I used Cryodex which is an officially sanctioned software for the event. As for cutting to top 16 I did it because I felt that it was the fairest way for the people to get a good chance. So you can say it’s messed up but I have used that software for multiple tournaments as well as the regionals for xwing out here

hey i wasnt trying to put you down. FFG makes plenty of weird/subpar calls on OP. I think top 16 is much better, more rounds is better. i have no issue with you doing this personally, but it breaks the rules of the event and thus invalidates the results when compared to tournaments run by the official rules. i believe tome is recommended/required but i cant remember where that is stated. 

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6 minutes ago, Tierdal said:

hey i wasnt trying to put you down. FFG makes plenty of weird/subpar calls on OP. I think top 16 is much better, more rounds is better. i have no issue with you doing this personally, but it breaks the rules of the event and thus invalidates the results when compared to tournaments run by the official rules. i believe tome is recommended/required but i cant remember where that is stated. 

They try to mandate TOME for their events, but in reality, you use whatever works for you. TOME has a bit of a learning curve and if you don't know what you're doing, it can go haywire.

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I don't wish to speak for the TO, but my understanding of the reasoning for the cut to top 16 is that FFG provided enough prize support for 16 players to receive the damage tokens for the Regional event.  We did a bit of a pseudo-cut to top 16 then did another cut down to top 8.  The intention of this was to allow those that placed in top 16 to get 1 match (best of 3) to make their way into top 8.  Everyone in attendance agreed to this structure.  Had it not been consensus, I stand strong in saying that the TO would have most likely rescinded his idea and just cut to top 8.  I was one of the 8 players that lost their top 16 match (to the deck/player that eventually placed 2nd) and though it sucks, it was a lot of fun and I am grateful that I had the opportunity to earn those tokens.

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Always takes two to tango. Someone should never be allowed in that store again and someone should never be allowed to TO again. There are ways of handling those situations and escalating it with flow language is simply not one of them. Also, why am I seeing a list of peoples names here? That information should be kept private. Hopefully FFG will do the right thing and not give that store anymore regionals. I know Wizards of the Coasts has ways to ban people from their events. FFG should look into doing the same. Also, if there are multiple witnesses calming there was a threat with a fire arm, the police need to do their job and make the arrest. Those threats all too often become reality.

Edited by Mep

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On the issue of cut to top 8/16 - there are guidelines, but organizers have discretion to change that as it works for them.  There have been numerous cases where regionals have had both round counts and cuts which diverged from the guidelines.  Whether you think that level if discretion is good or bad is up to you, but it is what it is, and you need to take it up with FFG if you have a problem with it.

The rest of the incident...  well, not sure that much more needs to be said there.  Sounds like the OP didn't understand how the scoring worked, and rather than trying to look at the results tried to start a fight over it.

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