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Dark Don

Generic Generals

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How do all you would be table titans feel about Generic General models?

A Commander for you forces that isn’t a key character from the movies?

Maybe a model FFG could release where you get a set of unique but not overpowering cards assigned to a model that’s not a points monster but stands above the others?

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Given that such a model would presumably be cheaper than Veers's 80 points, a generic commander wouldn't do much of anything, and would probably just be used for min-maxing. I'd rather not see such a thing, at least not anytime soon.

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22 minutes ago, Virgil Cain said:

I do hope at some point I get imperial officer models. Don't really care if they are a commander slot or just a support unit/add on of some variety. 

Veteran officers could be an interesting future personnel upgrade- Perhaps they would let you use a red defense dice for Rally (not counting surges, I imagine) instead of the white die.

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Something like this?

Stormtrooper Commanding Officer

Commander, 45 points, 1 mini
Stats: 2 HP, 1 Courage, Offensive surge -> hit, speed 2
Weapons: Unarmed, 1 black dice, melee; E-11 Blaster Rifle, 1 black / 1 white dice, range 1-3
Upgrade slots: 1 Grenade, 1 Gear
Abilities: Inspire 1

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While it's very exciting to create or even recreate stories with known characters from the Star Wars universe on the table top, I think it's just as important to create our own narrative. For some, it's easier to suspend their disbelief that "Greg" was leading a small regiment of Imperials to intercept Rebel intelligence (is there such a thing??) on planet ______ than it would be for General Veers or Vader who, at least in canon, wasn't there. I think it's fun to start from scratch and pave your own general's name and deeds from game to game and not always a character that already comes with preexisting deeds in lore. I would very much welcome unnamed generals and hope that FFG incorporates them in the game.

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Absolutely not. This is Star Wars...it’s all about heroes changing the outcome.  Also the game creator in an interview kind of scoffed at the idea of generic character if I’m not mistaken.  He was asked and he replied that leaders will all be named characters.  

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Armada is the best indicator we have for Star Wars wargame needing the inclusion of some kind of named character as Commander. There isn't the option in Armada for a custom Admiral, you HAVE to include a named character either from the screen or extended universe.

Nothing stops you from painting up any commander in a way that is inconsistent with the name on the card though. Instead of Leia, your Rebel force is led by Le'a, a near human Rebel commander who happens to have the same stats as Leia. 

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3 hours ago, Lord Cedric said:

While it's very exciting to create or even recreate stories with known characters from the Star Wars universe on the table top, I think it's just as important to create our own narrative. For some, it's easier to suspend their disbelief that "Greg" was leading a small regiment of Imperials to intercept Rebel intelligence (is there such a thing??) on planet ______ than it would be for General Veers or Vader who, at least in canon, wasn't there. I think it's fun to start from scratch and pave your own general's name and deeds from game to game and not always a character that already comes with preexisting deeds in lore. I would very much welcome unnamed generals and hope that FFG incorporates them in the game.

I think I might need to make an alt art card when Veers is out for General Greg.  I feel like his saga is just beginning...

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I love the idea of ‘generic’ leaders so we can create our own stories (much like people creating their own stories for their warhammer armies) but I can’t see FFG producing generic leaders. 

My plan is to use a boxed leaders stats and cards but skin them as something else. So Veers can be used as any high ranking imperial officer and I really like the look of the rebel navy troopers sergeant to use in the place of the princess. I’m assuming this won’t fly for torni play but in a friendly setting this should be fine. 

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I'm dine with the idea, but i don't believe ot will happen ever. As long as the each being value and a different mechanic of sorts I'm good with whatever. In Armada there are some admirals worth taking and some are just horrible or so constricting that they skew the army variety too much

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I'm not opposed to generic commanders from a conceptual standpoint. The problem is that Legion doesn't seem well suited to implementing them, at least for skirmish/tournament play. Legion units are a lot less modular than some other miniature games (e.g. 40k), so creating a custom commander is tricky to balance, and would probably need to be done with Homebrew or an official campaign with an advanced system that wouldn't need to be as tightly balanced. The other possibility would be the release of new, weaker non-unique commanders. The issue there is getting cheaper than Veers (so 45-60 points) means these commanders would have to be really lackluster- Perhaps their command cards wouldn't have special effects, and they might not even get courage 2+. Otherwise I think they'd muscle out the unique commanders through efficiency, and that would be a shame.

 

Edit: The IA comparison isn't ideal. IA's skirmish system doesn't have dedicated unit roles, so a random imperial officer for IA won't compete with Darth Vader or General Veers the way a generic commander would in legion.

Edited by Squark

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8 hours ago, Dark Don said:

How do all you would be table titans feel about Generic General models?

A Commander for you forces that isn’t a key character from the movies?

Maybe a model FFG could release where you get a set of unique but not overpowering cards assigned to a model that’s not a points monster but stands above the others?

Sure, after they’ve put every single named character in the series in, I’d be fine with adding an additional unnamed new character. 

Based on the release schedule, I figure they should be available in only 5-10 years. 

Edited by Derrault

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3 hours ago, Pigeon Von Smythe said:

The idea of the same characters being at every battle in the Galaxy is pretty lame, generic unamed characters feature for the imps in IA already. 

But it's fine for every single fleet battle? The only battles that get screen time are ones that include named characters, why should the game be any different? IA is not the same kind of game as Armada or Legion as it does not require a Commander. We may see Imperial Officers as a release, but I highly doubt they will be a Commander. They might be a Special Ops, or a Specialist upgrade for Trooper Corps units. 

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10 hours ago, Squark said:

Veteran officers could be an interesting future personnel upgrade- Perhaps they would let you use a red defense dice for Rally (not counting surges, I imagine) instead of the white die.

I like this idea. I would also give the officer a black attack die and instruct the player to replace the unit commander with a standard stormtrooper mini.

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10 minutes ago, NukeMaster said:

I like this idea. I would also give the officer a black attack die and instruct the player to replace the unit commander with a standard stormtrooper mini.

I'd prefer if the officer occupied the extra Trooper or Specialist slots instead. Then it is using a built in, preexisting aspect of the game rather than adding a new gimmick.  

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1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I'd prefer if the officer occupied the extra Trooper or Specialist slots instead. Then it is using a built in, preexisting aspect of the game rather than adding a new gimmick.  

That is what I was thinking. He would occupy the extra trooper spot, but it doesn't make sense that an officer wouldn't be the unit leader. Since every set of stormtroopers has the extra mini just swap that out for the unit leader. But, if that is too conviluded having an officer following around the dude with the pauldron is fine.

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6 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

But it's fine for every single fleet battle? The only battles that get screen time are ones that include named characters, why should the game be any different? IA is not the same kind of game as Armada or Legion as it does not require a Commander. We may see Imperial Officers as a release, but I highly doubt they will be a Commander. They might be a Special Ops, or a Specialist upgrade for Trooper Corps units. 

I just don't care for Armada,  so wasn't aware they hadn't yet introduced generics yet, the admiral system is a poor mechanic but this is a legion thread so don't want to get into that here. I could also accept that the rebels didnt have enough unknown admirals because generally we may have known them all, the imperial fleet needed to have a lot of generic officers spare for when Vader was part of the fleet.

A cheap generic commander with not particularly amazing command abilities would be fine, generic commanders would also provide more command card options to existing commanders if their abilities could be taken instead of the named characters ones.

You said that only characters were involved in battles in the film so why should that not match the game,the rebels didnt have AT-RTs in the films, if we have one departure from the films already why not more. Also Luke never came up against Vader in a battle in a film both were one on one situations (one a trap, one surrendering himself) 

Having named characters only limits the scope of the game and makes it very Fanboyish

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3 hours ago, Pigeon Von Smythe said:

A cheap generic commander with not particularly amazing command abilities would be fine, generic commanders would also provide more command card options to existing commanders if their abilities could be taken instead of the named characters ones.

You said that only characters were involved in battles in the film so why should that not match the game,the rebels didnt have AT-RTs in the films, if we have one departure from the films already why not more. Also Luke never came up against Vader in a battle in a film both were one on one situations (one a trap, one surrendering himself) 

Having named characters only limits the scope of the game and makes it very Fanboyish

Generic command cards can easily be released without releasing "Imperial/Rebel Officer" commanders, they can just put them in a future release, much like the cards being included in the Objective set. 

While I used the term "Screen time" I meant it in a wider scope than just the films. The video games, tv, movies, books, etc only show  the battles that are "interesting" or that contain the main characters of the media (for obvious reasons). Luke fights Vader multiple times in the Canon comics, for instance.

How is the scope of the game limited by not having "Imperial Officer" as a Commander? It is a roughly platoon level wargame set in the Star Wars universe, currently only including factions and units from the Galactic Civil War. I expect we will see other Commanders from the Rebel and Imperial side who are named characters from various media (TV show, movies, Comics, books). If FFG limits themselves to only the characters from the movies, then yes there aren't a ton of options. But they haven't for Armada, so I highly doubt they will for Legion either.

Who besides "fanboys" do you think are the main target audience of Legion anyway?

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I think we may be stuck on the term "commander". While a key-word, it is also a position of rank. It would just be as easy to create a generic Lieutenant, Corporal, or heck.. even a political rank like Baron etc and give them lesser Commander abilities. This would allow for a much more diverse list builds and we can see that much more tactical strategies from players who'd prefer more troops and less character-driven armies. I, for one, would be very happy to play with and against these lists because then the scenery doesn't matter, location doesn't matter, to a point.. lore doesn't matter (in regards to who was where etc), and it ALL ADDS to the narrative of Imperial Officer Lieutenant "Greg" and his merry band.

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19 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Generic command cards can easily be released without releasing "Imperial/Rebel Officer" commanders, they can just put them in a future release, much like the cards being included in the Objective set. 

While I used the term "Screen time" I meant it in a wider scope than just the films. The video games, tv, movies, books, etc only show  the battles that are "interesting" or that contain the main characters of the media (for obvious reasons). Luke fights Vader multiple times in the Canon comics, for instance.

How is the scope of the game limited by not having "Imperial Officer" as a Commander? It is a roughly platoon level wargame set in the Star Wars universe, currently only including factions and units from the Galactic Civil War. I expect we will see other Commanders from the Rebel and Imperial side who are named characters from various media (TV show, movies, Comics, books). If FFG limits themselves to only the characters from the movies, then yes there aren't a ton of options. But they haven't for Armada, so I highly doubt they will for Legion either.

Who besides "fanboys" do you think are the main target audience of Legion anyway?

Because the Star Wars universe is more than just what is seen in current media.  I mean Hera mentions that there are other rebel cells, but as of yet there are no named commanders of them so if you wanted to play as one of them you are out of luck.  This debate seems to boil down to two sides, people who want to experience the iconic characters from Star Wars, and those who want to play in the wider star wars universe.  The thing that I don't get personally is why people are so against releasing Generic commanders?  It's not like the popular ones from the movies/books/games aren't going to get released.  Cheep commanders would have to be balanced just like every other commander.

That being said Alex Davy seems firmly in the only playing as Iconic Characters camp so that is probably what we are going to get.

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