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slasher956

How to deploy a legion from an ISD?

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So as the subject says.... how would a Stormtrooper legion (well the 3/4s stationed on an ISD) deploy from an ISD in orbit.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer

link says nothing about landers (other than the 8 lambdas on board)... so are there a 100 troop shuttles on board along with 20 odd transports for the ATs (all vairents)

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26 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

So as the subject says.... how would a Stormtrooper legion (well the 3/4s stationed on an ISD) deploy from an ISD in orbit.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer

link says nothing about landers (other than the 8 lambdas on board)... so are there a 100 troop shuttles on board along with 20 odd transports for the ATs (all vairents)

There are other landers. Otherwise as said, ATATs could not be deployed.

They have been depicted at times - basically as big solid barns.

 

There are also assault shuttles and Stormtrooper Assault Transports as seen in the TIE fighter games and such.

 

Assuming nothing exists because it’s not specifically mentioned is a mistake I feel. 

It may not come under a “standard” compliment as there is a variety of options available in that regards.

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So go off the ISD legends  page then :P

 

But standard compliment SHOULD be there or at least the offical requirements for what should be carried ... (obviously with alterations in numbers here and there due to supplies / losses :p)...

Edited by slasher956

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53 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

So go off the ISD legends  page then :P

 

But standard compliment SHOULD be there or at least the offical requirements for what should be carried ... (obviously with alterations in numbers here and there due to supplies / losses :p)...

But what if there is a choice between transports tat carry 1, 2, 4 or 10 ?

And ISDs have mixes of them.

there should be a throwaway line of “and appropriate transports”, but it could also be assumed in the text.

 

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Would they use the accompanying Gozantis? As they can haul a couple of AT-AT underneath. Don't think they can move that much in the way of stormtroopers but at least the shuttles would do some of that. I think the Imperial Handbook has a bit in it about troop transports too, but I'm at work so couldn't check what that has to say to it.

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Except we are talking about a standardised galaxy wide military force.... So should have a standardised TOE.

 

So the lift capability of 1 Battalion in platoon sized crafts consisting of....

3 x battalion company sized crafts consisting of....

etc etc etc....

 

although we are now out of the realms of sci-fi writters  :P

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31 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

Except we are talking about a standardised galaxy wide military force.... So should have a standardised TOE.

 

So the lift capability of 1 Battalion in platoon sized crafts consisting of....

3 x battalion company sized crafts consisting of....

etc etc etc....

 

although we are now out of the realms of sci-fi writters  :P

And there you have it.

 

i mean, you if nothing else, are relying on a community sourced and updated/edited system to base your conclusion/question on.

 

i know too many people who deliberately mess with Wikis

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I think you could just set up a combined Armada/Legion campaign.

The Legion could land regardless of victory in space. It is just victory in space gives abilities in Legion battles and Legion victory give resources.

The only way you could lock down a legion in one space is for a fleet to be doing a blockade action in a campaign.

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18 hours ago, slasher956 said:

Except we are talking about a standardised galaxy wide military force.... So should have a standardised TOE.

That's exactly why you'll have a million exceptions, local variations, special detachments, task-organized forces, incomplete units, attached units, and so forth forever.

Look at the Nazi and Soviet militaries in WWII. The lack of standardization in practice. Even the U.S. Army, with it's extensive resources and high degree of standardization, fielded two different armored division organizations simultaneously.

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18 hours ago, Akhrin said:

Would they use the accompanying Gozantis? As they can haul a couple of AT-AT underneath. Don't think they can move that much in the way of stormtroopers but at least the shuttles would do some of that.

If I can mount AT-ATs on the TIE hardpoints, I can mount troop pods even more easily.

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1 minute ago, elbmc1969 said:

That's exactly why you'll have a million exceptions, local variations, special detachments, task-organized forces, incomplete units, attached units, and so forth forever.

Look at the Nazi and Soviet militaries in WWII. The lack of standardization in practice. Even the U.S. Army, with it's extensive resources and high degree of standardization, fielded two different armored division organizations simultaneously.

but the paper TOE is the same for everything of the same type.... you can have vairent types of Armd Divs with different TOEs

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In our world real life units very rarely match their TOEs except in peacetime, and sometimes not even then. The idea of the kampfgruppe, i.e. tailoring a force in relation to its objectives, has become the norm in military science since its intoduction in WW2, and its roots go back before that. This entails units being removed from their parent formation, which are often too large and unwieldly for the task in hand, and being placed under a separate command with a specific objective.

Thus you find things like Battlegroups, Task Forces, Task Groups, Regimental Combat Teams, etc being referred to in military histories. Even when a whole formation, say a division, is dedicated to an operation it is subdivided into appropriate groupings that each have an individual role in achieving the formation's overall goal.

Apart from regrouping units for a certain task, non-organic support units are added if required. One such addition can be transport. Since it is too expensive to provide every unit infantry unit with helicopters to make them air-mobile, these resources are centralised and distributed as required. And it would be the same in the Star Wars universe.

An ISD is not large enough to carry an entire legion of stormtroopers and it only carries enough transport to support basic opperations, i.e. not a full-scale assault. So there would be other long-range tranports accompanying the ISD to carry the remainder of the legion as well as any short-range transports required to acheive the Legion's objective. It's just that the writers are not interested in this side of military operations and so have never bothered to invent those kind of ships/vehicles.

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So whats the level of transport capability for its stormtroopers would people say an ISD has?  33%, 50% more or less?

 

I was under the impression that an ISD could land its ground troops without outside assistance.  But thats possibly as people have said just fuzzy writing from the authors.

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I think the way things would be done would echo maritime practices on earth.

In earth history the transport of troops over long distances has been by troopships, simply unarmed ocean-going ships designed to efficiently move lots of troops. In modern times these have often been commandeered liners (for example the Canberra in the Falklands War). Specialised transports called landing ships, usually lightly armed (for example LSTs - Landing Ship Tank) have also been used to deliver men and material over long distances. These allowed for shore-to-shore (read: planet-to-planet) delivery of military forces. However they were too vulnerable to be used in an opposed landing, so smaller transports called landing craft (read: dropships/shuttles) were used for the actual landing phase of an attack. The landing craft would collect the troops and vehicles from the long-range transports and ferry them to the target. Larger landing craft could be ocean-going, but smaller ones would have to be carried by specialised ships.

It is logical to assume this framework would be used in the Star Wars universe as well. The Y-85 Titan Dropship is the rough equivalent of the WW2 era LCT - Landing Craft Tank. Dropships would however have to be carried by large ships with hyper-space capability. The Sentinel-class shuttle could carry up to 75 troops, but I would imagine that there would be larger shuttles/dropships in the Star Wars universe that we just don't know about.

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If an ISD didn't have the transports/dropships available to do a large scale deployment, what would be the point in carrying almost 10,000 elite shock troops? If we are to accept that the only transports aboard an ISD-I are the eight Lambda shuttles, how do the AT-ATs, AT-STs/DPs, and ITTs get to the ground? Are they there to repel boarders? What sense would that make, since they can't go down the main corridors? How quickly could the Lamdbas get boots on the ground and get back up to the ship sixty times, in order to deploy the entire force?

 

The whole concept behind an ISD is that it can subdue an entire system or sector by itself with overwhelming firepower and enough of a ground force to squash any flames of a rebellion before it burns out of control. To think that they carry 10,000 shock troops just to repel boarders (when lesser trained and cheaper naval troopers would serve the role just as well in those numbers) is a bit of a stretch, even for sci-fi. I would assume it's just an omission, because it hasn't had to be addressed in the new cannon. Just compare the difference between the Canon and Legends ISD-I complements. All of these issues were addressed then, because you had dozens and dozens of novels and video games, which gave more of an opportunity to flesh out those details. None of the movies show mass troop deployment, and the books that have come out thus far have mostly skipped over it, so they can't technically say that load out is canon any more. Notice that it also says ISDs only have TIE/ln starfighters, when even Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi show that not to be the case (unless all of the TIE/Ins and TIE/Bs came from the SSD, but it's wiki page says the only complement it has are Titan Dropships, so do we assume that it carries no fighters, transports, etc.?).

 

I would leave it as Wookiepedia saying "There are not any current, canon sources that specify exactly what an ISD holds beyond what we have listed here, and we don't want to get a C&D from Disney, so we're leaving it as is. But 'Legends' has the good stuff, so read that too."

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10 hours ago, slasher956 said:

but the paper TOE is the same for everything of the same type.... you can have vairent types of Armd Divs with different TOEs

I don't understand what argument you're trying to make. (I mean this seriously, not sarcastically.) My point was that the various militaries had multiple TOEs in effect for the same unit type (infantry division, armored division, etc.) at the same time. The U.S. had two active TOEs for armored divisions. Even though the Army's infantry division TOE was standardized, the United States military also had the USMC division. Navies are always far more confusing and non-standardized.

Is this different from your response?

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54 minutes ago, reegsk said:

The whole concept behind an ISD is that it can subdue an entire system or sector by itself with overwhelming firepower and enough of a ground force to squash any flames of a rebellion before it burns out of control.

Agreed, but the concept itself doesn't entirely make sense. For one thing, in reality you wouldn't risk your assault troops by putting them on your main fighting ship. And also accomodating so many passengers on a fighting ship would be a waste of its valuable space and therefore battle effectiveness - across a fleet of ISDs sent to fight a space battle that waste would be enormous.

However it is all theorising because the Star Wars universe is fictional. :o

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I'd put the troops in AT-AT, put those underneath Gozanti's how many of both does an ISD have?

 

( if there are no gozanti on board an ISD how did Ciena Ree and otherperson forgothername use one to fetch Darth Vader while they were stationed on his ISD)

Edited by Geressen

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14 minutes ago, Geressen said:

I'd put the troops in AT-AT, put those underneath Gozanti's how many of both does an ISD have?

 

( if there are no gozanti on board an ISD how did Ciena Ree and otherperson forgothername use one to fetch Darth Vader while they were stationed on his ISD)

It was.... part of the attendant task force?

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44 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

It was.... part of the attendant task force?

so they made it dock with a star destroyer, took the crew out of the gozanti, then took 2 officers from the star destroyer and put them in it and told them to fly out to get Darth vader?

 

also I'm pretty sure in star wars rebels when they find the clones a star destroyer shows up and down comes a gozanti with 2 AT AT 

Edited by Geressen

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Just now, Geressen said:

so they made it dock with a star destroyer, took the crew out of the gozanti, then took 2 officers from the star destroyer and put them in it and told them to fly out to get Darth vader?

Probably.

Dude, it was to rescue Darth F****** Vader.

You do whatever you **** well need to when you are **** well told...

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nah the gozanti definetly came from inside the house

I mean the call came from inside the star desroyer

 

BECAUSE THE MANGA ADAPTATION OF LOST STARS SAYS SO !

Edited by Geressen

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