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tsondaboy

Os-1 Arsenal loadout and blinded pilot

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Ok so I had this come up at a tournament match I TO-ing yesterday and could not provide a clear ruling on this.

An Alpha with the Os-1 title and a weapons disabled token got the new blinded pilot crit.
As I can see it there are 3 possible rulings on this depending on what is considered an opportunity to attack when a ship is equiped with Os-1:

a) The Alpha with a weapons disabled token can flip the blinded pilot card down even if it does not have a legal way to fire its ordnance or a valid target (i.e. no target lock and without a ship in arc).

b) The Alpha with a weapons disabled token can flip the blinded pilot card down if it has a legal way to fire its ordnance but not a valid target (i.e. with target lock and without a ship in arc).

c) The Alpha with a weapons disabled token can flip the blinded pilot card down only if it has a legal way to fire its ordnance and a valid target (i.e.  both target lock and a ship in arc).

The consensus among the player was in favor of b) so I went with that ruling, but I would appreciate any feeedback on this since none of the above is clearly covered by RAW.

PS: Since the Alphas have the reload action you can complicate things more if they have fired all their ordnance.

Edited by tsondaboy

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FAQ, p9
"Blinded Pilot

A ship that has a weapons disabled token or is overlapping an asteroid does not get an opportunity to attack during the Combat phase and therefore cannot turn Blinded Pilot facedown.

If a ship gets an opportunity to attack from a card effect (such as Dengar or Corran Horn), that ship can resolve one of those abilities and flips Blinded Pilot facedown.

A ship with this card cannot trigger Advanced Cloaking Device, Darth Vader (?), Gunner, Feedback Array, etc., as the ship cannot perform attacks."

It seems this would point to option C above. Since the only way a Alpha (with weapons disabled and titled) has an opportunity to fire is if it has a target lock on a target in arc. Though given that a ship without a weapons disabled token is able to clear a blinded pilot without a valid target in arc, I can see an argument for option B. Because the ship has met its firing requirements (i.e. having a target lock on the target) and given the second clause of the BP crit "...After your next opportunity to attack (even if there was no target for an attack), flip this card facedown.".

I would rule for Option B, as long as the Alpha as a target lock on a ship, the ship does not have to be in Arc (as with any other ship). But without that target lock, the alpha does not meets it ability to fire (the Target Lock permitting the fire would fall under the second part of the FAQ "...if a ship gets an opportunity to attack from a card effect...").

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The damage card states "After your next opportunity to attack (even if there was no target for an attack), flip this card facedown.

So you activate during the Combat phase, and thanks to the title, the weapons disabled token means you actually now have an opportunity to attack with torpedoes or missiles, but the damage card prevents this. Flip the Damage card, end of activation. There's nothing there requiring that you have to have a valid target, or a target lock to fire your torpedoes or missiles. You just need the opportunity to attack.

If you didn't have any torpedoes or missiles, the title wouldn't trigger and the weapons disabled token would deny you the opportunity to attack, and therefore you would be unable to flip the damage card.

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I would also lean towards option B for a few reasons. In the case of option A, without blinded pilot, the ship would not have an opportunity to attack. The token prevents primaries and either having no target lock or ordnance remaining, there are no possible attack actions he can perform and cannot continue down the attack timing chart, even before getting to the "select a ship to be the defender" step of the attack.

Option C, I would argue follows the same outcome of any regular ship with blinded pilot but without a target in arc or range. Despite not being able to perform an attack, the only thing stopping them was the lack of a target, not the lack of opportunity or weapon availability. With that being the precedent, it should not require that you have a valid target to flip blinded pilot, only that you have the chance and means to perform an attack at all. 

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Option A, definitely.  If you didn't have a weapons disabled token, you would be able to flip Blinded Pilot (TFA) even without a ship in arc.  That is to say, even without a legal target to fire upon, you can flip blinded pilot.  For the aforementioned Starwing, it has an upgrade that permits it to fire certain weapons even with a weapons disabled token.  Even if it doesn't have a legal target, it still has an opportunity window to fire, and the capability to fire; so the card flips.

The same precedent works for Snap Shot:  Any time an enemy ship executes a maneuver, it triggers an opportunity for Snap Shot that allows you to flip Blinded Pilot (even if they don't end up in range/arc).

-----

EDIT:  I was pointed out that OS-1 requires a target lock for the opportunity to fire with a Weapon Disabled token... so option B is actually correct.

Edited by emeraldbeacon

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3 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Option A, definitely.  If you didn't have a weapons disabled token, you would be able to flip Blinded Pilot (TFA) even without a ship in arc.  That is to say, even without a legal target to fire upon, you can flip blinded pilot.  For the aforementioned Starwing, it has an upgrade that permits it to fire certain weapons even with a weapons disabled token.  Even if it doesn't have a legal target, it still has an opportunity window to fire, and the capability to fire; so the card flips.

The same precedent works for Snap Shot:  Any time an enemy ship executes a maneuver, it triggers an opportunity for Snap Shot that allows you to flip Blinded Pilot (even if they don't end up in range/arc).

No... Option A also remove the need for a Target Lock and this is not true at all. You need the Target Lock.

Option A  (i.e. no target lock and without a ship in arc).

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15 minutes ago, muribundi said:

No... Option A also remove the need for a Target Lock and this is not true at all. You need the Target Lock.

Option A  (i.e. no target lock and without a ship in arc).

latest?cb=20171020202958

I stand corrected!  OS-1 does indeed require you to have a target lock to have the opportunity to fire.  It is indeed option B.

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Yup its B

The Title has 0 indication of arc requirement, only targetlock. So this falls (slightly) under the same ruling of Snapshot. You technically have a chance to attack, even if it wouldnt have happened anyway, so flip blinded pilot down. No targetlock? No opportunity.

If the title mentioned "ship in your firing arc you have a targetlock on" then it would be C. Being in arc is required to declare a target, not have an opportunity to see if theres a target at all (which is what blinded pilot looks for)

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3 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Yup its B

The Title has 0 indication of arc requirement, only targetlock. So this falls (slightly) under the same ruling of Snapshot. You technically have a chance to attack, even if it wouldnt have happened anyway, so flip blinded pilot down. No targetlock? No opportunity.

If the title mentioned "ship in your firing arc you have a targetlock on" then it would be C. Being in arc is required to declare a target, not have an opportunity to see if theres a target at all (which is what blinded pilot looks for)

If the only requirement is the target lock to get the opportunity for attack, do you still need to have an ordnance card face up?

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10 minutes ago, tsondaboy said:

If the only requirement is the target lock to get the opportunity for attack, do you still need to have an ordnance card face up?

I'm inclined to say no.  The OS-1 provision that allows you to attack while you have a Weapons Disabled token is that you have a target lock... so you need to fulfill that requirement to have an opportunity to fire (which is what Blinded Pilot looks for).  The damage card, however, doesn't require you to have a viable target for an attack (meaning nobody has to be in range/arc), or that you have a viable weapon to fire in the first place.

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I'm not inclined to agree that you would be able to clear the blinded pilot if you did not have ordnance. 

If you were to take either title but not take the appropriate secondary (either XG with no cannons or OS with no missiles or torps), when you received a weapons disabled token during play you would not be able to attack even under ideal conditions. Regardless of whether you have a target lock, ship in arc or at the correct range band, without the accompanying weapon there is no way you can perform an attack. You hit the same snag where you can't declare a valid weapon to use to progress further down the attack timing chart and your only option is the primary which is stopped by the weapons disabled token. 

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1 hour ago, Jimbawa said:

I'm not inclined to agree that you would be able to clear the blinded pilot if you did not have ordnance. 

I can see both side @Jimbawa and @emeraldbeacon

The reason that the ACSW can clear the Blinded Pilot while Weapons Disabled is due to the OS-1 title (in this particular scenario). That title makes the provision for the ship to be able to attack (have the opportunity to fire with Weapons Disabled) provided it has a Target Lock active (on another ship), it also states (in the same clause) that you can only fire ordinance (Torp or Missile) secondary weapons. Since the ACSW is using its Title to be able to clear the blinded pilot while possessing a Weapons Disabled token via "If a ship gets an opportunity to attack from a card effect (such as Dengar or Corran Horn), that ship can resolve one of those abilities and flips Blinded Pilot facedown." It would stand to reason that it needs to meet the full requirements of that card.

That being said, I suppose you could argue the zero dice approach. The ship has the opportunity to attack via the target lock, but without being reloaded it can not roll any dice, yet still clear the BP because of the opportunity was provided.

Would a HWK-290 with only a primary weapon and *weapons failure*, be able to clear a Blinded Pilot crit without first clearing the WF? If so, then I do not see an issue with the ACSW clearing its BP with its ordinance turned down, but if it cannot, then similarly I think the ACSW would have to have at least one M/T card face up.

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5 hours ago, SkullNBones said:

Would a HWK-290 with only a primary weapon and *weapons failure*, be able to clear a Blinded Pilot crit without first clearing the WF? If so, then I do not see an issue with the ACSW clearing its BP with its ordinance turned down, but if it cannot, then similarly I think the ACSW would have to have at least one M/T card face up.

Yes it can. As you quoted, zero dice is a thing in X-Wing, and having 0 dice to roll does not remove the opportunity to attack. It just means during your activation, you choose a target to attack and then roll 0 dice.

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10 hours ago, SkullNBones said:

That being said, I suppose you could argue the zero dice approach. The ship has the opportunity to attack via the target lock, but without being reloaded it can not roll any dice, yet still clear the BP because of the opportunity was provided.

Would a HWK-290 with only a primary weapon and *weapons failure*, be able to clear a Blinded Pilot crit without first clearing the WF? If so, then I do not see an issue with the ACSW clearing its BP with its ordinance turned down, but if it cannot, then similarly I think the ACSW would have to have at least one M/T card face up.

Absolutely could a HWK clear blinded pilot while under the effects of weapons failure, but I don't think that is the same scenario as a star wing with no ordinance. It's not an option to roll 0 attack dice, it's a lack of available weapons to choose from that would prevent the star wing in this situation. Without both the target lock and some kind of missile or torpedo available, you have no valid weapon selection and I am of the opinion that you would therefore not have an opportunity to attack. 

I think your first paragraph and particularly the clause that all parts of the OS-1 title must be fulfilled to allow an attack is or at least should be the proper interpretation. 

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