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gamblertuba

Large Base Boost. Any chance for a change?

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Newer players may wonder, "Why only half points on large ships?"  Well, it's really a ham-fisted way of curtailing large based ships with engine upgrade.  The one bank on a large base covers a ridiculous amount of territory and it made the freaking Decimator (and now Ghost) into Arc-Dodgers.  Who are also turrets.  Who also have ridiculous amounts of HP.  

Now, there are a lot of things that work together to make Ghost/Fenn a monster.  TLT, Maul, PS11 Coordinate and others.  But one thing that hasn't been brought up much is the waves old cheese that is large base boost (LBB).  FFG was willing to change large base barrel rolls almost immediately.  What are the odds they are finally forced to address boosting now?  I think the change needs to be to Engine Upgrade as IG-2000's dial was clearly designed around its boost action.

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Boosting isn't the issue. Boosting at PS11 without having to sacrifice your own action (making blocking useless against it) leaving you with a 5 dice fully modified primary shot is the problem. Cancer isn't good because of one thing. It's good because of half a dozen things that came together that got around most viable strategies for preventing that much damage coming out of a single ship consistently. Boosting decimator is nothing new. The best it can do is at PS10, and by using its own action, meaning it can be blocked effectively (and easily). Fat Han boosting back in the day was an issue not because of the boost itself, but because of the potential damage mitigation relative to what was facing it.

But you're right, it's time for 1/2 points on large ships to leave. They're easier to burn down that small ships at this point. It's a dead mechanic from a different age.

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54 minutes ago, JasonCole said:


But you're right, it's time for 1/2 points on large ships to leave. They're easier to burn down that small ships at this point. It's a dead mechanic from a different age.

I don't agree with this.  At all.  Have you watched how hard it is to put damage into a sensor jammer ghost with HSCP?  How about a timewalk asaajj?  Old title Rey + C3P0 + Lowhhrick?  These ships are *VERY* hard to kill, let alone half point them in some matches.  In some cases your only path to a win is doing whatever you can to scrape half points off them and keep enough points of your own alive.

Edited by viedit

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1 hour ago, JasonCole said:

Boosting isn't the issue. 

Just because I keep seeing it, we need to be very clear that there is no single issue anymore.  The game is too complex to ever believe that single card, mechanic, rule is creating a problem.  I do maintain strenuously that boosting with a large base is part of the problem.  Why isn't Fenn Rau being used to Corran (for every player not named Nathan Eide)?  Because boosting with a small base is not nearly as effective as boosting with a large base.  It should at least be looked at.

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1 hour ago, viedit said:

I don't agree with this.  At all.  Have you watched how hard it is to put damage into a sensor jammer ghost with HSCP?  How about a timewalk asaajj?  Old title Rey + C3P0 + Lowhhrick?  These ships are *VERY* hard to kill, let alone half point them in some matches.  In some cases your only path to a win is doing whatever you can to scrape half points off them and keep enough points of your own alive.

You mean SJ Ghost with HSCP as its own crew? Or HSCP on Rau backing up the Ghost? The former is stupid easy to pump damage into. AGAIN... the issue is Rau extending the action economy and positioning of the Ghost at PS11 then being able to strip tokens before the Ghost can be attacked, while dealing out stress with it's astromech. Rau in the shuttle is yet another disaster of "hey, let's put a brazillion upgrades and abilities and fill the action bar of this ship that can easily hit PS11 and while we're at it, let's undercost the **** out of it and see what happens. There isn't a **** thing wrong with the Ghost. It's a tough nut, sure, but defeatable. Even the Maulzra ghost with EU isn't that scarry. It's again, that PS11 coordinate to reposition that then strips your tokens and turns off expertise that breaks things.

So instead of half points being removed, what about half points being applied to all ships?

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The best fix I can think of: Engine Upgrade should cost 5 or 6 points on a large-base ship, and only 3 on a small-base ship.  There's a lot of things in this game which should cost a point more, or a point less.  Engine Upgrade is certainly one of them.

But that's not a change FFG is likely to make, no matter how reasonable it would probably be.

It isn't just Fenn Rau (although that's very, very good).  Large-base boosting turret ships are all awesome--at pretty much every PS level, too.  Not "dominate most major events" awesome, but really strong.

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17 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

So instead of half points being removed, what about half points being applied to all ships?

Not without figuring out a good solution to apply point loss to regen ships

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6 minutes ago, impspy said:

I like how Age of Icons does it:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ui0o0aL.png

 

Except that a 2 straight from the back of a large base doesn't move the ship any farther forward since the ship base is the same length as the 2 straight.

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6 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

What are the odds they are finally forced to address boosting now?

While I would be 100% on board with something like what @impspy suggested, I think the odds of it happening are approximately 0. :(

At least not unless and until X-Wing 2.0 happens. 

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It's trivial to shorten the boost.  I've explained how in several similar threads over the past several years.  Search should turn those up.

Shortening the boost actually helps arced ships with boost, as it allows a tighter turn.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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13 hours ago, RampancyTW said:

Not without figuring out a good solution to apply point loss to regen ships

Each time a ship recovers a shield token place a tracking token on its card.  Tracking tokens count as damage to the ship for MOV purposes, including counting the ships as destroyed if tracking tokens are greater than hull number(minus damage cards) plus shield tokens.

 

it’s time.  Make this happen.

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On 3/9/2018 at 9:41 AM, impspy said:

I like how Age of Icons does it:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ui0o0aL.png

 

Yes, that will do.  That will do nicely.

 

32 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Here we go again:rolleyes:

 

Actually looking back on the forums the nerfing threads in 2014/2015 were not so bad. They were annoying but not as prolific as they are now!!!!!:angry:

In the first 3 waves there were far more ships that needed a lot of help than the more ‘balanced’ or OP ships.

X-wings costing 21 points just because.  Advanced costing the same yet having only 2 red dice.  Interceptors only having 3 Hull, Firespray not having B-roll, A-wing and B-wing needing various boosts, and the worst of all the HWK with one(!) red die primary and the Lambda with only red hard turns?!???!!!

 

Then came Fat Han and the Phantom Menace to crush the almighty TIE Swarm.  The rest, is history.  And bloat.

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The Age of Icons fix is pretty good, but it adds too much complexity for a simple reposition. Going with how they change BR for large base, they can do something similar for boosting. If going straight, you line up the template sideways along the front edge, being sure to touch the nubs, then the ship only moves half the distance. For a bank, if boosting left, line up the template to the front right corner of the base, then position it on the back right corner. This gives the same angle change, but the ship goes about 1/2 the distance

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On 9/3/2018 at 12:05 PM, gamblertuba said:

Newer players may wonder, "Why only half points on large ships?"  Well, it's really a ham-fisted way of curtailing large based ships with engine upgrade.  The one bank on a large base covers a ridiculous amount of territory and it made the freaking Decimator (and now Ghost) into Arc-Dodgers.  Who are also turrets.  Who also have ridiculous amounts of HP.  

Now, there are a lot of things that work together to make Ghost/Fenn a monster.  TLT, Maul, PS11 Coordinate and others.  But one thing that hasn't been brought up much is the waves old cheese that is large base boost (LBB).  FFG was willing to change large base barrel rolls almost immediately.  What are the odds they are finally forced to address boosting now?  I think the change needs to be to Engine Upgrade as IG-2000's dial was clearly designed around its boost action.

No

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22 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Yes, that will do.  That will do nicely.

 

In the first 3 waves there were far more ships that needed a lot of help than the more ‘balanced’ or OP ships.

X-wings costing 21 points just because.  Advanced costing the same yet having only 2 red dice.  Interceptors only having 3 Hull, Firespray not having B-roll, A-wing and B-wing needing various boosts, and the worst of all the HWK with one(!) red die primary and the Lambda with only red hard turns?!???!!!

 

Then came Fat Han and the Phantom Menace to crush the almighty TIE Swarm.  The rest, is history.  And bloat.

So in other words, X-wing died in Wave 4.

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On 3/9/2018 at 9:41 AM, impspy said:

I like how Age of Icons does it:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ui0o0aL.png

 

That's terrible way to do it. Boost is to go faster and that sort of way to re-position, as noted, allows the ship to turn tighter at a higher speed. That should be against the rules of even Star Wars physics. 

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On 3/9/2018 at 9:44 PM, GrimmyV said:

Each time a ship recovers a shield token place a tracking token on its card.  Tracking tokens count as damage to the ship for MOV purposes, including counting the ships as destroyed if tracking tokens are greater than hull number(minus damage cards) plus shield tokens.

 

it’s time.  Make this happen.

I prefer the suggestion of placing shield tokens equal to the original shield value on the upgrade and that is the amount of regen that ship can obtain. Ships still have regen, you don't have to track something for half points and you don't have the terror of Corran blasting away regen to full shields and come back to double blast only to wash-rinse-repeat (yes I am still salty over Fat Han/Corran).

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