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First Flames - Disciples of the Void Preview

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1 hour ago, AradonTemplar said:

How are you figuring you'll swap multiple fate? Is that assuming the new stronghold?

Ummm...Karmic Twist says “move each fate from a character to another”, so just using the card normally will swap multiple Fate at once. That is, as long as the chosen character has more than one Fate. 

It has to be between characters controlled by the same player, but if you attach Embrace the Void to a character controlled by your opponent, then use Karmic Twist to swap the Fate of the Embraced character to another character, Embrace interrupts to send all that Fate to your pool (instead of your opponent’s other character). 

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9 hours ago, Notorious I.D.E. said:

Blackmail + this = scorpion wins again

What is really troubling, and I thought I was one of the few thinking in this manner, is that when I see the newly (soon to be) released cards I automatically think/wonder if and how a Scorpion deck might get the most value out of it than the parent Clan.... ?

Though, IMO, this card needs a lot of setup in order to pull its effect off, methinks. But what do I know? (and it’s competing with other cards in the Phoenix deck)

Edited by LordBlunt

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2 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

Ummm...Karmic Twist says “move each fate from a character to another”, so just using the card normally will swap multiple Fate at once. That is, as long as the chosen character has more than one Fate. 

It has to be between characters controlled by the same player, but if you attach Embrace the Void to a character controlled by your opponent, then use Karmic Twist to swap the Fate of the Embraced character to another character, Embrace interrupts to send all that Fate to your pool (instead of your opponent’s other character). 

Oh jeez. I was on the fence about it, because I thought it was just one fate. I must have been focusing on the 1-fate casting cost.

Paired with Embrace the Void, that's fairly ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, AradonTemplar said:

Oh jeez. I was on the fence about it, because I thought it was just one fate. I must have been focusing on the 1-fate casting cost.

Paired with Embrace the Void, that's fairly ridiculous.

It's fairly easy to play around though. You just have to make sure you never have a non-unique with 0 fate and one with 2 fate out at the same time. That way it's just a void effect at the cost of two cards. Unless they have an Inquisitive Ishika out and someone declares a void conflict, then it's void and a fate for two cards.

Unicorn might actually get some good use out of this since they've got the 1 cost conflict shugenja so they could surprise someone with double void at the cost of three cards.

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8 hours ago, LordBlunt said:

What is really troubling, and I thought I was one of the few thinking in this manner, is that when I see the newly (soon to be) released cards I automatically think/wonder if and how a Scorpion deck might get the most value out of it than the parent Clan.... ?

Though, IMO, this card needs a lot of setup in order to pull its effect off, methinks. But what do I know? (and it’s competing with other cards in the Phoenix deck)

who's afraid of the big bad scorpion? 

As a faction they managed to fit their lore role: everyone see them now as the devious vilain. 

 

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What have they done to Tadaka? He was one of the most iconic characters in l5r and now looks like this? Wtf! 

Tadaka is master of Earth, this one looks more like a master of water. 

The art is overall really good in this game and Tadaka got this? The artwork itself is good, but it is not Tadaka. Please change this before release! 

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On 3/8/2018 at 9:20 AM, Darguth said:

I'd agree with the general sentiment that Hida Amoro doesn't really scream at me for inclusion right now.  However, I really like the card.  I think he'll definitely have a place as various Crab sub-themes continue to develop:

  1. Berserker Synergy (Crisis Berserker)
  2. Benefits from Sacrifices (Taka, Vengeful Berserker -- though that one in particular doesn't work with Amoro)
  3. Defend-to-Win (Defend the Wall, Staunch Hida, Mountain Does Not Fall, etc)

Not sure he'd be great in a 'defend-to'win situation. Remember he kills your own guys as well!

I agree though. he's a neet card but I don't get any anti-shugenja/phoenix vibe. I was expecting something a little different but I'm not mad at it!

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On 3/10/2018 at 12:20 PM, Darksyde said:

Not sure he'd be great in a 'defend-to'win situation. Remember he kills your own guys as well!

I agree though. he's a neet card but I don't get any anti-shugenja/phoenix vibe. I was expecting something a little different but I'm not mad at it!

Remember, Phoenix pass more conflicts than most everyone else.

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I dunno. I might be playing Phoenix wrong, but I declare a lot of conflicts. Gotta get that water-ring value. With all the opportunities to ready my characters, I try to press the character advantage by engaging in a lot of conflicts.

 

Of course, that changes if I have Tsukune out, but I don't see her that often. Too many good holdings.

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I mean, it could just be the particular phoenixes I've faced, but I definitely feel like I'm defending less on average against phoenix than anyone else, but I suppose that might not be the standard.

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Like I said, I could just be playing wrong. Maybe the local players aren't putting on the defensive enough, or are letting me get away with too much. I certainly wouldn't take my limited playing experience as the word on how to play Phoenix.

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My issue is that while I have played against a lot of phoenix guys, only a few of them were actually *good* phoenix players, so I don't know if my averages are being dragged down by the scrubs who aren't representative of the competitive level that I assume is the idea in conversations like these (as in, at the highest level of play, what is good and what is not, what tactics could I reasonably expect to see, etc.), simply because that is much more clear cut for abstract hypotheticals like these when considering new cards' usefulness on paper, but the longer this game goes on the more difficult it gets for me to keep track of what goes on at the highest level of play considering I have yet to be able to attend any of the major tournaments, so I go off of hearsay and assumptions, which means if I just assume I know better about a clan I don't play than someone who actually plays that clan, even if they may or may not be representative of the clan, then I'm not being fair to anyone in the discussion.

It's like how from experience I have found that I seem to have at least a slightly better understanding of the way contract law works than your average layman, but any given lawyer should be assumed to understand contract law better than me, even an ambulance chaser who almost never has to deal with that, but a lawyer who specializes in contract law specifically should be assumed to have a better understanding than said ambulance chaser. In this analogy I have no clue if you would be the ambulance chaser or the contract lawyer, but either way I assume you know better on the topic than I do unless and until proven otherwise.

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On 3/10/2018 at 12:20 PM, Darksyde said:

Not sure he'd be great in a 'defend-to'win situation. Remember he kills your own guys as well!

I agree though. he's a neet card but I don't get any anti-shugenja/phoenix vibe. I was expecting something a little different but I'm not mad at it!

I think he would help with D2W because it bullies your opponent into your strength.  Especially when you will have better tools to mitigate his double-edged sword (Reprieve, Iron Mine, etc) than your opponent will.

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That's some influence cost right there.

 

Not sure how I like it, though. Winning by 5 or more can happen, and it's nice to offset the counterattack when they let your big attacker through and strike back, but I don't know if I'd dedicate a card slot to this happening. Seems like if you win by 5 or more, things are already going your way. Especially with the Phoenix ability to snowball, I'd rather be running cards that help me win conflicts at all :\

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4 influence?! Man, that Support of the Phoenix role is starting to make sense. 

Also, did you notice that the Alt art card of the new Stronghold has the alt art card of Support of the Phoenix in the other side? Maybe that answer the question about what’s on the other side of the regular card of SotP.

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1 minute ago, AradonTemplar said:

That's some influence cost right there.

 

Not sure how I like it, though. Winning by 5 or more can happen, and it's nice to offset the counterattack when they let your big attacker through and strike back, but I don't know if I'd dedicate a card slot to this happening. Seems like if you win by 5 or more, things are already going your way. Especially with the Phoenix ability to snowball, I'd rather be running cards that help me win conflicts at all :\

That's likely why it's 4 INF, it's better out of skew decks that are likely to win big.  But winning by 5 isn't really all that uncommon, you often need that for a break and breaks happen all the time.  It's definitely a "win more" card though, not something to help you in conflicts to win in the first place.

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This card has all the ingredients of a bad card:

-Situational.

-Doesn't help you win conflicts.

-Dead when you are behind. (quite win more indeed)

As a fate generator embrace the void is much better (an yet still not good enough to see consistent play).

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27 minutes ago, thorrk said:

Dead when you are behind. (quite win more indeed)

Would have definitely been interesting if you could use it after you win or lose by 5+ skill.  Would have thematically played into the pacifist aspects of the faction and made it both a catch-up and win-more card, which is much less situational.

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1 hour ago, thorrk said:

This card has all the ingredients of a bad card:

-Situational.

-Doesn't help you win conflicts.

-Dead when you are behind. (quite win more indeed)

As a fate generator embrace the void is much better (an yet still not good enough to see consistent play).

 

I'd play it with the Poo Flinging Monkey, but that's me....

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9 hours ago, AradonTemplar said:

Ooh, you can use it to make Wandering Ronin 'good'! Turn his fate into power, and turn that power back into fate when you're done!

It can also work with Akodo Toshiro, to farm rings and gaining some fate in the process, but of course that means you’re Lion and splashing a 4 INF card which is a lot...

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