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nakala

Lure on sabine

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No, that is incorrect. You do not get a chance to respond to her dice (assuming Sabine uses her ambush to resolve that is). The Ambush action from Lure does not get created until Lure fully resolves, which does not happen until Sabine finishes her activation. Sabine gets ambush first, and Ambush actions are resolved in order created.

The sequence:
1: Lure is played, Sabine is forced to activate.
2: Before trigger on Sabine activation allows a weapon with ambush to be played. The ambush card is played and the Sabine player gains ambush action.
3: Sabine activates
4: Lure is finished resolving, Lure player gains Ambush action.
4: Ambush actions are resolved in order created, therefore the Sabine player completes Ambush action first.
5: Now Lure player can complete their ambush action.

Relevant rules text from page 18 RRG: After playing (and resolving) a card with Ambush, a player may take another action. • If a player is allowed to take an action outside of their turn, they immediately take it.

Edited by shivore

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16 hours ago, shivore said:

No, that is incorrect. You do not get a chance to respond to her dice (assuming Sabine uses her ambush to resolve that is). The Ambush action from Lure does not get created until Lure fully resolves, which does not happen until Sabine finishes her activation. Sabine gets ambush first, and Ambush actions are resolved in order created.

The sequence:
1: Lure is played, Sabine is forced to activate.
2: Before trigger on Sabine activation allows a weapon with ambush to be played. The ambush card is played and the Sabine player gains ambush action.
3: Sabine activates
4: Lure is finished resolving, Lure player gains Ambush action.
4: Ambush actions are resolved in order created, therefore the Sabine player completes Ambush action first.
5: Now Lure player can complete their ambush action.

Relevant rules text from page 18 RRG: After playing (and resolving) a card with Ambush, a player may take another action. • If a player is allowed to take an action outside of their turn, they immediately take it.

Well no, Things enter the queue when they are created. So the Lure ambush is already in the queque when Sabine activates. Even then, her ambush weapon enters the queue after Lure, so that ambush ability gets resolved after Lures.

This game can get stupid complicated at times.

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It can get complicated at times definitely, this should be stated clearer in the rules.

I still believe you are incorrect however. It really comes down to when does an Ambush action get created. You seem to think it is when a card is played. I say it is when a card is resolved. The rules say "After playing (and resolving) a card with Ambush, a player may take another action." (emphasis mine, taken from page 18 of the RRG)

Now to be fair, that quoted section of the rules says when a player may take an Ambush action... not when the Ambush action is created. I cannot find anywhere in the rules where it explicitly states when an Ambush action is actually created.


If it is when a card is played, then Lure's ambush action is created first. If it is when a card is resolved, then Lure's ambush action isn't created until after Sabine has finished her activation.

Edited by shivore

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@shivore It is when the ability to create another action enters the queue that matters. BTW, Lure resolution is Sabine activating. That effect doesn't just hang out there waiting for everything else to happen. Lure resolves forcing Sabine to activate.

Too many Magic players here trying to force that system in this game. Just play out the effects in the order the cards are played, not last card played first.

Edited by Mep

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On 3/11/2018 at 3:50 PM, Mep said:

@shivore It is when the ability to create another action enters the queue that matters. BTW, Lure resolution is Sabine activating. That effect doesn't just hang out there waiting for everything else to happen. Lure resolves forcing Sabine to activate.

Too many Magic players here trying to force that system in this game. Just play out the effects in the order the cards are played, not last card played first.

You might be right. I still say this needs to be clarified by FFG.

Just for the record, I have never played Magic, I do not know how Magic works.

Edited by shivore

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1 minute ago, shivore said:

You might be right. I still say this needs to be clarified by FFG.

Just for the record, I have never played Magic, I do not know how Magic works.

You'll need to email the question into FFG and if that gets asked enough times. it will go to the FAQs. If if it doesn't, they may give you a response that will clear it up for you.

Magic is a huge card game and it has a queue too. It works very differently than this game.

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I have emailed FFG this question a few weeks ago (sadly no response in time for our regional this past weekend). Across many forums it is a big topic of confusion regarding what could potentially be a solid piece of tech against Sabine.

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To point out how weird SWD is, i dont play magic. I attempted to get into it like 15 years ago, but only collected...maybe 150 cards before saying forget it. I have no memory how the rules work other than how the mana colors functioned, since that was pretty basic.

I still act like SWD has a queue. Why? Because it makes freakin sense to have a queue. Most of the order-of-things issues in this game come down to people acting like it has a queue, but it doesnt have one.

Also yeah i agree this needs to be faq'd. I'll throw an email out to ffg as well to help push the issue.

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On 3/12/2018 at 8:05 AM, Lusiphur05 said:

The ambush action is created when the card is played, and then you have to wait to take the action until the current action is fully resolved, therefore the Lure Ambush gets created first.

This is the correct resolution.  In Destiny, there's a difference between when an effect is created and things enter the queue/game state, and when they get resolved.  In this case, the sequence looks like this:

Play Lure:  Creates effect (force opponent to activate Sabine) which enters the queue.  Also creates Ambush (actions don't enter the queue, they wait for the current queue to fully resolve and then get taken in the order they are created.  Ambush action waits for the end of the current queue.

Lure has now fully resolved and enters the discard.

Opponent activates Sabine.   (we are still in the current queue)

Sabine's Before effect triggers, interrupting the queue.  Sabine's player uses the effect to play an Ambush weapon.  This creates a second Ambush action, which goes outside the queue and behind the action created by the Ambush from Lure)

Activating Sabine now continues:  Opponent exhausts Sabine and rolls her character and upgrade dice.

Player check for any more trigger effects that could enter the queue.  If none, or after they all are resolved, the current queue closes.

Players now look to see if any actions were created during the queue that need to be taken.  Again, additional actions do not enter the queue, they wait for the current queue to fully resolve and then get taken in the order they were created.  The action from Lure was created first, so that player gets to take an action.

Once that action has fully resolved, the action from Sabine's Ambush weapon will be able to be taken.

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