Yet another Avenger Boarding Troopers list

[Stefan 732]

What do you think?

Yet another Avenger Boarding Troopers list
Author: Stefan

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 396/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Chimaera  ( 4  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Intensify Firepower  ( 6  points)
= 177 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Avenger  ( 5  points)
-  Strategic Adviser  ( 4  points)
-  Boarding Troopers  ( 3  points)
-  Hardened Bulkheads  ( 5  points)
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 140 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
= 48 total ship cost

= 0 total squadron cost

[BrobaFett 4,209]

Your bid is too small to be effective. Drop the raider for another goz or more squads.

You are better off with a 22ish point bid than a raider.

[BrobaFett 4,209]

Also, hyperspace assault should be... well.... essentially anything else.

[Stefan 732]

 I put in Fleet Ambush. Better?

And I hope 10 points will suffice in the local meta. That in mind, does the list make more sense?

[thecactusman17 3,192]

6 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Your bid is too small to be effective. Drop the raider for another goz or more squads.

You are better off with a 22ish point bid than a raider.

leave the 20 point bid for tournaments. It's not fun for casual play if one side isn't expecting it. 

That said,  I would drop the Raider to another gozanti and some squads with maybe a 10 point bid for casual games.

Fleet Ambush is basically giving away free points.    A solid defensive objective for all-ship lists is probably Contested Outpost or Planetary Ion Cannons. The latter gives no points to your opponent and lets you potentially take a free shot each turn vs an enemy carrier or flotilla. 

If you plan to take this to a tournament,  your fleet isn't lean and focused enough. At top levels,  whether you bid at 400 points or 360, every component should have a dedicated purpose for maximum effect. Your fleet is a bit of a mishmash that doesn't really bank on reliable consistent damage or defense, spike damage,  objective dominance or activation advantage.

Here's a common thought process I have for fleets today: 

1:  How do I plan to achieve victory (moral or actual)?

2:  What do I need to accomplish that? 

3:  What force multipliers do I have to excel at that? 

4:  What in my list doesn't directly enable that? 

5:  ???

6:  Profit. 

[Stefan 732]

Like so?

Yet another Avenger Boarding Troopers list
Author: Stefan

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 391/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

 

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Chimaera  ( 4  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Intensify Firepower  ( 6  points)
= 174 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Avenger  ( 5  points)
-  Strategic Adviser  ( 4  points)
-  Boarding Troopers  ( 3  points)
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 135 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points)
= 32 total squadron cost

[thecactusman17 3,192]

Now this has some options. 

Personally I'm not a big fan of Spinal Armaments, but if I had to choose place them on the Cymoon instead of the ISD1.  Cymoon wants all the long range firepower it can get. 

Wulff isn't necessary if you are careful with your Gozantis.  You'll only need 2, maybe 3 uses of IFF generally so use tokens on your first uses then discard.

H9s are expensive, but a good option for the Avenger is XX9s to get that easy double-crit result. 

[TheCallum 758]

3 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

leave the 20 point bid for tournaments. It's not fun for casual play if one side isn't expecting it. 

What does that mean?

Playing a First Player list second is just as bad whether you lost the bid by 1 or 10.

If you want first (or second) you have two options-

1.) My preference: you ask the player you are playing before the night, so they can accommodate you if they are willing.   If you get first, you then still-

2.) Bid for it, just like you would at a tournament.  

The more extreme the bidding game the better- if you want an advantage, you pay for it.  

 

 

[TheCallum 758]

To comment on the list, I echo Cactusman- you don’t need Wulff.

 

I highly recommend Tua on a 170 point ship, but Strategic Advisor has a place.

I’d swap the Ties to Aces, Cienna and Valen-  you lose coverage but gain activation efficiency- the Comms net gozanti can’t pass tokens if they are using squadron commands.

[Stefan 732]

Yet another Avenger Boarding Troopers list
Author: Stefan

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 390/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

 

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Chimaera  ( 4  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Intensify Firepower  ( 6  points)
= 174 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Avenger  ( 5  points)
-  Strategic Adviser  ( 4  points)
-  Boarding Troopers  ( 3  points)
-  Hardened Bulkheads  ( 5  points)
-  XX-9 Turbolasers  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 136 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
= 30 total squadron cost

[thecactusman17 3,192]

7 hours ago, TheCallum said:

What does that mean?

Playing a First Player list second is just as bad whether you lost the bid by 1 or 10.

If you want first (or second) you have two options-

1.) My preference: you ask the player you are playing before the night, so they can accommodate you if they are willing.   If you get first, you then still-

2.) Bid for it, just like you would at a tournament.  

The more extreme the bidding game the better- if you want an advantage, you pay for it.  

 

 

Tournament "crush everything" mindsets in casual games can lead to negative experiences.  It also leads to over-dependence on some specific build ideas, such as low bid first-last activation.  When I'm playing a 20 point bid last-first activation monstrosity, it typically means that I have an extreme need to prevent my opponent from going first more than a need for some particular combo.  Now, if your local meta is already full of extreme bids, then this is fine.  But if you're going against a random guy at your FLGS you should check to make sure you're both on the same page about how competitive the game is supposed to be if you're paring that many points of to guarantee a first activation.

[ripper998 508]

I would dump Wulf, move SA to that ship and put pryce on your BT ship.

[Stefan 732]

Why?

[thecactusman17 3,192]

1 hour ago, Stefan said:

Why?

Your BT needs to get into close range to be effective.   You absolutely have to guarantee that you get in after your target moves, and attack before it moves in the subsequent round. On a Kuat, this is doubly true because all your best firepower is at close range too.

[Stefan 732]

Which round do I put on Prye? 3 or 4?

[BrobaFett 4,209]

2 or 3, if you do it on 4 you will likely get blown up.

2 if you are going to deploy nose at a target and scream in and you know they cant get away. This is useful for carriers, cause you don't want to eat lots of squads and you know the carrier will be using squad, not nav, so their movement and speeds are a little more predictable. 3 for a more conservative deployment against a combat ship that will probably be using nav and doing everything in its power to avoid you lining up the shot on your pryce turn.

Either way, you need to make sure you end the turn BEFORE the pryce turn in a position where THEY will move into red range of your isd while you wait. If that happens, you should have them. The ISD should have access to speed 3, preferably with a nav command, and then end of the pryce turn take a red range shot at whatever zone you are going to drill and hopefully a strip a few shields (any accs block redirects). After that move into a close range double arc and activate first at the top of the next turn with a cf dial, pop troopers with a squad token, and destroy the target.

[BrobaFett 4,209]

On 3/4/2018 at 11:48 PM, thecactusman17 said:

leave the 20 point bid for tournaments. It's not fun for casual play if one side isn't expecting it.

So Cal casual meta is full of 20pt bids in our beer league matches haha. But it is annoyingly cutthroat sometimes.

[TheCallum 758]

Just go with your bidding meta then:  Sticking to a high bid because that’s more realisticly going to get what you want in your area is better sportsmanship than cramming in a few more point of upgrades because the guy you are playing that week is less likely to be bidding.

[SgtDurandal 175]

On 3/5/2018 at 5:51 AM, Stefan said:

Yet another Avenger Boarding Troopers list
Author: Stefan

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 390/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

 

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
-  Admiral Motti  ( 24  points)
-  Chimaera  ( 4  points)
-  Wulff Yularen  ( 7  points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Intensify Firepower  ( 6  points)
= 174 total ship cost

 

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
-  Avenger  ( 5  points)
-  Strategic Adviser  ( 4  points)
-  Boarding Troopers  ( 3  points)
-  Hardened Bulkheads  ( 5  points)
-  XX-9 Turbolasers  ( 5  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 136 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 25 total ship cost

 

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
= 30 total squadron cost

Also... Not sure if someone pointed this out yet but you can not equip the Chimaera Title to the Cymoon I Refit. The title states that it can't be equipped to a ship that already has the fleet command upgrade slot which the Cymoon does. Plus if you're only ever going to us IF the Chimaera serves no purpose. 

[vitasmortis 89]

21 hours ago, SgtDurandal said:

Also... Not sure if someone pointed this out yet but you can not equip the Chimaera Title to the Cymoon I Refit. The title states that it can't be equipped to a ship that already has the fleet command upgrade slot which the Cymoon does. Plus if you're only ever going to us IF the Chimaera serves no purpose. 

Good eye!

I have a similar fleet, but I put Relentless on the Cymoon so I could react a little quicker with my commands. 

[Stefan 732]

Thanks! Changed that.

I flew the list yesterday with some success. Started the Avenger flanked by the Gozantis, followed by the Cymoon. I'm not sure if this is the best build-up, though. Any comments?

[vitasmortis 89]

Deployment is definitely big with dual ISDs, so having more squadrons is extremely useful for the extra couple of drops you can get out of it.

What I try to do is milk the Comms Net tokens on my Gozantis for the first two rounds wherever I can and/or activate my squadrons as necessary if I need some sort of alpha strike against a more powerful squadron contingent -  and then get the flotillas the **** out of there if I can (at least one usually dies, despite my best efforts). After turn 3, the Gozantis are only useful if you are against a large swarm fleet and want to throw dice at them, however, they are more useful alive and giving you activation options towards the end game. 

But when I have to drop the ISDs, I put them side-by-side INITIALLY. 

The interesting thing I've noted is that opponents will try to maneuver so that they use the large bases of one ISD to obscure firing solutions from another. This is obviously a smart move. But if you can guess how they are going to do that, you can try to get really fancy and use that to your advantage to obscure one ship while forcing another to take the brunt of the enemy assault (i.e. Cymoon in front and Avenger behind, but the opposite has also worked nicely). This limits the number of viable targets your opponent has to fire at, reducing their potential damage output for the turn. And then, if you have guessed right, when your initial maneuvering sub-game is done in the first few turns, you pull one out from behind while slowing the other and bring tremendous havoc and malice upon anyone within range from BOTH ships in the same turn. And if you can work your activation order cleverly, then SOMEBODY will be within close range for Avenger-BT. BUT even if you dont, then the Cymoon will hopefully have forced its targets to exhaust a token or two before Avenger gets to activate and ruin their day. 

That's also why I like Spinal on Avenger, so that even if I cant get to close range, I at least have a balanced 4 reds I can throw in that direction AFTER my 5 from the Cymoon.   

[Mogrok 526]

if you use ryan kingston fleet builder you won't have an issue with accidentally equipping things that don't work

[Stefan 732]

Thanks for both tipps, guys!