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TheBoulder

Skills

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I know the skills can all be used untrained with the relevant attribute... But I sometimes feel this leads to the "intellect guy" doing all those skills regardless if others have training just because they have the higher stat.

So my question is... Are there any skills you don't allow to be used untrained? And how has that worked out?

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I have played the system less than I wish, so I can't remember if I had problems with this.

I'm used to play Pathfinder/D&D and there are skills which can't be used without training, like the Knowledge skills.

I guess it's not necessary to create a rule for it, remembering the GM has the last word. So, if i'm the GM and I believe that the character really can't know nothing about something, I would say "no".

But it's important to know that common things, maybe with difficult 1 or 2, should be an easy task even for who don't have much training. Maybe more specific or complex checks need a rank to do.

If you want a rule, maybe something like:

"The character can't do the test if the difficult is more than the skill rank + 2" so...:

  • Rank 0: max skill check difficult is 2
  • Rank 1: max skill check difficult is 3
  • Rank 2: max skill check difficult is 4
  • Rank 3+: max skill check difficult is 5

What you think?

EDIT:

Also remember that a chacter would have one or two high stat, so this wouldn't be something abusive, I assume.

And even without any rule, also think that some checks could receive some setbacks, due the unfamiliarity with the thing or the pressure to do it right.

Edited by Bellyon

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Outside of a structured encounter (no initiative track) I generally encourage players to take turns doing “something”  so if the Knowledge pc has just had a go then someone else needs to make this check. This does encourage players to come up with creative ways for their less than ideal character to contribute, but that’s what the Intellectual will be doing during combat.

Its important to remember that failure can be just as fun in this system, and if they are trying something that plays into their motivations then there’s lots of boost dice to be gained.

Then you can also encourage Combined Skill checks, also known as Skilled Assistance. Look at the two participants and use the higher characteristic and the higher skill. In this way the 4 Intellect character can help the pc with only 2 Intellect in the Knowledge they have 3 ranks in. When performing skilled assistance I always try to get the player who has been a bit quite to make the roll. 

Splitting the party is another great option, it’s so easy inthis system since encounters can be so easily scaled on the fly.

Alpha Gamers are always an issue, but this system really makes it easy to steer toward everyone having a roll of the dice and a role in the party.

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First of all: I'd always allow the roll. Under certain circumstances I'd rather adjust the difficulty accordingly.

Piloting an automobile untrained? Not to difficult.

A motorcycle? Maybe an upgrade, just to keep things interesting.

A commercial airplane? Impossible and very challenging, i.e. Story Point and (RRPPP).

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I get what everyone is saying and thank you very much for your responses. 

 

I guess I have difficulty when it come to certain skills. Like someone doing astronav or performing surgery or hacking a computer or fixing complex machinery, etc.

 

I think there are some that translate well to use untrained but others I can't see at all.

Edited by TheBoulder

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If it’s a problem the GM is perfectly within his or her rights to add setback dice to untrained checks, or to flip a story point and upgrade the check—particularly if there’s another player trained but doesn’t have quite as high a characteristic. 

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We experimented in Star Wars with giving an automatic upgrade to the difficulty of any unskilled check.  It doesn't change the odds much and allowed for some fun narrative escapades that occur when a beginner tries to do a task for the first time.

We'll probably port that rule to Genesys when the campaign starts.

However, the other thing to keep in mind is that a skilled user in this game is just not someone with proficiency dice, but rather someone that has talents that help with that skill.  Removing black dice.  Earning extra blue dice.  Etc.

in our mind, its the talents that define the expert.

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7 hours ago, TheBoulder said:

I guess I have difficulty when it come to certain skills. Like someone doing astronav or performing surgery or hacking a computer or fixing complex machinery, etc.

5 hours ago, GamerTnT said:

We experimented in Star Wars with giving an automatic upgrade to the difficulty of any unskilled check.  It doesn't change the odds much and allowed for some fun narrative escapades that occur when a beginner tries to do a task for the first time.

I apparently have started doing this for so long, I assumed this was part of the core rules, but yes, I do also like to upgrade difficulty on checks like the astronav, surgery, complex stuff, etc. because now the player not only doesn't have a chance for a Triumph, but they have a chance at a Despair. Never underestimate the stopping power of the threat of a Despair, my group has often gone back and reassessed the situation as soon as I grab the red dice.

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7 hours ago, GamerTnT said:

We experimented in Star Wars with giving an automatic upgrade to the difficulty of any unskilled check.  It doesn't change the odds much and allowed for some fun narrative escapades that occur when a beginner tries to do a task for the first time.

That's a fantastic idea. I may even take it a step further and adjust the difficulty as well. Thanks!

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