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GrimmyV

The Firespray Fix!

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16 hours ago, Odanan said:

Why not also fix the Imperial Firespray?

x_wing_miniatures___custom_upgrade_by_od 

EDIT: Frack, if we are going for a "fix", let's keep it 0 points.

Love the fix, Perhaps make it a negtive pointcost? I think the firespray cost to much! And to quote captain Neda, - Impossibel No ship that small has a cloaking device - 

But if you wanna follow the lore , The Slave 1 had a cloakingdecvice that made it imposibel to see on any radar,. It dident make it vicibel to the naked eye but still! 

So lets give it atleast 2 Iliccits 

The only original part left of the slave 1 was Jangos Chair. Evrything els had been modifed or replaced! 

 

Lets make the Firespary great again =) 

 

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There are two things which I think the Firespray needs:

1. to be a little cheaper.  Not necessarily too much, but just a little.

2. to have rear-arc secondary weapons.  Missiles, Torpedoes, and Cannons.  Be ready to errata Kath Scarlet (Scum) to be primary weapon, but don't do it immediately.  Wait to see if it's a problem, and let her have a month or two to shine first.

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7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

There are two things which I think the Firespray needs:

1. to be a little cheaper.  Not necessarily too much, but just a little.

2. to have rear-arc secondary weapons.  Missiles, Torpedoes, and Cannons.  Be ready to errata Kath Scarlet (Scum) to be primary weapon, but don't do it immediately.  Wait to see if it's a problem, and let her have a month or two to shine first.

The cannon definitely makes sense, as the very picture in HLC is the rotating cannon on the Firespray, but, as you note, Scum Kath is problematic (although Krassis Trelix becomes possibly even viable!

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I mean, Kath is *maybe* an issue, but it'd be a fun problem to have for a little.  I mean, if she can pull off 6-dice Cruise Missiles?  More power to her, because that will either take skill or an opponent making a mistake.

The likely go-to build would probably be something like Expertise, Dengar, HLC, Engine Upgrade.  5 dice rear arc on a repeatable shot is nasty, but at 56 points, this isn't super tanky, and it's also rather predictable, and fairly vulnerable to stress mechanics.  It's probably not worse for the game than Ezra/Maul Ghosts.

Plus, it's an easy fix if we start seeing half the cut at major events being Kath.  Just let it rip, and enjoy.

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, Kath is *maybe* an issue, but it'd be a fun problem to have for a little.  I mean, if she can pull off 6-dice Cruise Missiles?  More power to her, because that will either take skill or an opponent making a mistake.

The likely go-to build would probably be something like Expertise, Dengar, HLC, Engine Upgrade.  5 dice rear arc on a repeatable shot is nasty, but at 56 points, this isn't super tanky, and it's also rather predictable, and fairly vulnerable to stress mechanics.  It's probably not worse for the game than Ezra/Maul Ghosts.

Plus, it's an easy fix if we start seeing half the cut at major events being Kath.  Just let it rip, and enjoy.

I think I'd rather go for cluster missiles on her than the big 4-die cruise missiles. Those with expertise and dengar are some painful shots, even without chips involved.

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This is a grand thread @GrimmyV, I'd love a buff to the Firespray that could make the viable. Though Boba is the coolest as far as cannon, Kath is my favorite to fly. I like the idea of secondaries out the rear arc @theBitterFig, but it is true that Scum Kath might be too much?

I think a Scum and Imperial Firespray Only Title that gives two Illicit slots, an auto extra munitions on all equipped secondary weapons at (0) point cost would be lovely. I think they'd be as fun to fly as they are fun to fly.

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

The likely go-to build would probably be something like Expertise, Dengar, HLC, Engine Upgrade.  5 dice rear arc on a repeatable shot is nasty, but at 56 points, this isn't super tanky, and it's also rather predictable, and fairly vulnerable to stress mechanics.  It's probably not worse for the game than Ezra/Maul Ghosts.

This.

 

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5 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I like the idea of secondaries out the rear arc @theBitterFig, but it is true that Scum Kath might be too much?

It'd at least be something to keep an eye on.  And as I've said, it's an easy nerf.  But wait until it becomes an actual problem, and wait a month more.  Let Firesprays have some fun.

6 hours ago, vbananas said:

I think I'd rather go for cluster missiles on her than the big 6-die cruise missiles. Those with expertise and dengar are some painful shots, even without chips involved.

4-dice Clusters would be pretty sweet.  Glitterstim Tactician Tailgunner?

That's what I love about the thought of rear-arc secondary weapons for Kath.  Like, it's huge damage *on paper* but is it even going to work?  I mean, maybe.  Just doing a 4-straight past someone and tossing those 6-dice Cruise Missiles might work.  And it'd be hilarious if it did.

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On 04/03/2018 at 12:49 AM, GrimmyV said:

you may equip upgrades with ‘small ship only’.

 

finally, Linked Battery, Vectored Thrusters, cloaking device!... 

 

Would be worth it just to see the awesome Cloaking repaints that would be done. 

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While I can't see many issues with the current unique titles being available to the Firespray, I'm not really sold on the idea simply because it means all future unique titles would have to be balanced against the fact the Firespray could take them as well as the ship they were intended for, and that might mean future ships suffer as a result.  (Although if it did become an option, I think Moldy Crow + Recon Specialist would be a solid choice.  Hound's Tooth on either version of Boba would be amusing too.)

I think what the Firespray needs most of all is the one thing it won't get - a better dial.  We only really get one scene in a film of the Firespray in combat, but it does seem very manoeuvrable in the short time its on screen.  A hard 1 would really improve it, even if it was a red move.  Likewise a 3 S-Loop or T-Roll would also be nice.  You could create a title that allowed the Firespray to change a 1 bank to a 1 turn, or a 3K to a 3 S-Loop (or T-Roll) but I feel giving it the ability to change it's dial as standard may be a bit too generous (and also make Imperial Boba less attractive.

One of things I like about the Firespray is its large range of options when combined with the existing titles, and I'd like to see its customizability remain a key feature.  Unique Titles that add Illicit, System and extra Crew slots (maybe at the cost of swapping for existing upgrade slots and a points reduction, e.g. swap missiles for 2nd crew at -2pts) would mean that you could customize the ship almost any way you want and have double Firespray lists where the 2 ships had very different roles and abilities.  I'd like to see a general points reduction (probably only needs to be 2pts at most) but I think that's unlikely to happen.

Also, there a lot of suggestions for fixing specific pilots earlier but nothing for Imperial Kath.  If the others were to get specific boosts via errata (unlikely), would a change to Kath so that each of her cancelled crits give their opponent a stress token (rather than just the first one) be too powerful?

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On 3/4/2018 at 2:22 AM, Sunitsa said:

It fixes nothing.

The Firespray has a terribly outdated dial, that's the core issue of the ship. It would definetly benefit from gaining a barrel roll, but if it comes at the cost of 2 points and the renounce of Engine Upgrade we are still at square one.

Don't you mean it comes at the cost of 2 points, a stress and the EPT slot ?

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1 hour ago, spacelion said:

Don't you mean it comes at the cost of 2 points, a stress and the EPT slot ?

No, he means the proposed fix that would allow small ship only upgrades. Thus you need to pay for vectored thrusters and you mod slot. 

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6 hours ago, JudgeDeath said:

I think what the Firespray needs most of all is the one thing it won't get - a better dial.  We only really get one scene in a film of the Firespray in combat, but it does seem very manoeuvrable in the short time its on screen.  A hard 1 would really improve it, even if it was a red move.  Likewise a 3 S-Loop or T-Roll would also be nice.  You could create a title that allowed the Firespray to change a 1 bank to a 1 turn, or a 3K to a 3 S-Loop (or T-Roll) but I feel giving it the ability to change it's dial as standard may be a bit too generous (and also make Imperial Boba less attractive.

I second this. Missing the hard one, would take it even if it was red. 

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19 hours ago, ABXY said:

Would be worth it just to see the awesome Cloaking repaints that would be done. 

 

17 hours ago, hawk32 said:

I didn't know I wanted this, but I do.

5a56db663d206_2018-01-10(1).jpg.28326c13

Not to self-promote too hard, but is this the sort of cloaked firespray you are thinking of?

Edited by vbananas

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I'm still hopeful they don't get the Vaksai's points discount, maybe with the ability to fire secondary weapons aft to boot.

Because with that size upgrade bar, you could load the things for bear and then wreak havoc.

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2 hours ago, Reiver said:

I'm still hopeful they don't get the Vaksai's points discount, maybe with the ability to fire secondary weapons aft to boot.

Because with that size upgrade bar, you could load the things for bear and then wreak havoc.

Wrecking the Havoc isn’t priority anymore, it’s all about Ghostbusting now.

 

and it’ll be awefully hard to make the Firespray OP by just making upgrades cheaper/free.  It still has no system slot, basically the X-wing/Z-95 dial with none of the modern turn around moves, and no native repositioning.  A one point Vectored or 3 pt EU is still more points on top of a (double) arc-locked ship, as the kids say.

an Imperial crew that made maneuvers green would help out a PTL Firespray and guaranteed focus and evade every turn.  LRS is helpful for first or second passes with Harpoons/cruise/latest hot Missile.  But even at discounts it’s not obvious that this will push the ship into better tiers.

its a 40-50 pt ship when loaded and it still needs support badly, something that the Imps will be getting soon with the second TIE Shuttle.  Maybe Krennic will find a home on the Firespray as he supports the support ships boosting his ship.

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There's always a bunch of people who want the firespray to fire weapons from the rear arc.

And while that certainly won't make then worse, I don't think it's really making them that much better.

Offense is the one thing firesprays can do well already. It's a lack of the best upgrade slots that hurts them. No system, no tech, only one crew.

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All I want is a refit title that adds boost to the action bar at no cost.  That's a 4 point price reduction and gives you room to add autothrusters which makes this ship *VERY* tanky.  

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On 3/5/2018 at 1:22 PM, SirCormac said:

No, he means the proposed fix that would allow small ship only upgrades. Thus you need to pay for vectored thrusters and you mod slot. 

You can already barrel roll with Expert Handling , the better trick to me is when you can make a Firespray cloak, that would be really funny (even though decloaking sucks because you don't move that far away)

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8 minutes ago, spacelion said:

You can already barrel roll with Expert Handling , the better trick to me is when you can make a Firespray cloak, that would be really funny (even though decloaking sucks because you don't move that far away)

Decloaking would be weirdly predictable with a firespray.

Because you decloak sideways "in the same fashion as a barrel roll" but using a speed 2 movement stick, you can only decloak exactly sideways rather than being able to slip forwards or back like a normal small ship.

Decloaking forwards would be a large ship moving speed 2 forwards - the equivalent of moving 4 normal ship bases forwards - that's a huge jump of distance when it comes in advance of a normal move; moving at full tilt that allows the firespray to jump forward an effective "speed 8" - faster than a boosting interceptor! - and potentially boost on top of that...

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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