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Big Easy

Troop Heavy Lists

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Strategy wise, it seems as though there is a big advantage to fielding 6 (max) troop units that comes into play with orders. Your command card orders let you assign orders to specific types of units, not specific units. That means you can play an order card that gives your commander an order and maybe one other that you give to a troop unit, but when it comes time to activate you have multiple options of which unit to activate with that order. Then after that, when you pull random orders you have a high probability of pulling a troop token from the bag--which you can then use to assess the battlefield and activate the unit that makes the most sense.

Lots of troops=lots of battlefield flexibility. The main downside is those scary comments about fielding two AT-STs or two T-47s. Troops will have an advantage for objectives, but they will have a hard time staying alive!

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Will they? Impact grenades, ion tokens removing actions and the r4 hh12 is pretty decent. The issue i have with troop based lists is rebels can still feild their hitters +5-6 troops. Hampered by the extra cost of vader and gearing an atst, imps cant

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Fielding 6 troop units with impact grenades comes in at 294 (Stormtroopers). Still plenty of room for support/heavy vehicles to mitigate some of the risk from double heavy lists. Plus the impact grenades help balance if they get isolated.

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3 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Will they? Impact grenades, ion tokens removing actions and the r4 hh12 is pretty decent. The issue i have with troop based lists is rebels can still feild their hitters +5-6 troops. Hampered by the extra cost of vader and gearing an atst, imps cant

Would you predict that the asymmetric tactics of the game at launch will generally be Rebels=swarm and Imperials=burst damage?

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9 minutes ago, Big Easy said:

Would you predict that the asymmetric tactics of the game at launch will generally be Rebels=swarm and Imperials=burst damage?

With what burst? Rebel have the better offensive dice percentages sans vader or an atst which is 20+ points dearer that a similar t47.

 

The advange imps do have with vader on the board is the immunity to suppression bubble. But is it enough?

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"The advange imps do have with vader on the board is the immunity to suppression bubble. But is it enough?

Troops die so fast or become useless after losing a couple of units when firing against anything in cover, the suppression bubble is fairly useless.

If troops could actually survive against attacks then suppression would be a factor but they don't ... they will die long before suppression is a factor.

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47 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

With what burst? Rebel have the better offensive dice percentages sans vader or an atst which is 20+ points dearer that a similar t47.

 

The advange imps do have with vader on the board is the immunity to suppression bubble. But is it enough?

With AT-ST and Arsenal 2 and speeder bikes rolling dice, I consider that substantial burst relative to what the Rebels are packing. I also see suppression as a consolation for when the dice aren't working out for you or heavy cover is an issue--concentrating fire on a tactically important squad might not yield enough hits from your stormtroopers but they will at least force the Rebels to Recover instead of aiming or dodging.

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1 hour ago, Big Easy said:

Strategy wise, it seems as though there is a big advantage to fielding 6 (max) troop units that comes into play with orders. Your command card orders let you assign orders to specific types of units, not specific units. That means you can play an order card that gives your commander an order and maybe one other that you give to a troop unit, but when it comes time to activate you have multiple options of which unit to activate with that order.

This isn't correct- Orders are assigned to a specific unit, not a unit type. The random draw will let you activate ant unit of that type, though.

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3 minutes ago, Squark said:

This isn't correct- Orders are assigned to a specific unit, not a unit type. The random draw will let you activate ant unit of that type, though.

Sorry, that's what I meant but I wasn't clear. My point is that the normal disadvantage of having some orders randomized is somewhat mitigated by the flexibility you get by activating any troop unit. Not such a big deal if you have 3, fairly advantageous if you're fielding 6.

In fact, a good strategy might be to never assign your troop units an order, saving orders for your commander and support/heavy units. You still have the ability to activate a "random" unit first (ahead of your assigned orders), but you can arrange it so that you know that all of your randoms will be a troop unit. 

Edited by Big Easy

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Impact 6 grenades also don't do much when an AT-ST is suppressing you from across the map (AT-ST mortar is range 4+ remember). While it is certainly a strategy, there will likely be tactics and unexpected wrinkles to it. For instance, what if you end up with a heavily barricaded map? Vehicles don't have to worry about a lot of terrain that troopers find difficult, either directly (Speeder keyword) or indirectly. The only type of Terrain which arguably benefits troopers over vehicles to move through is "High Hedges" and arguably Dense Woods (which is impassible to Repulsor Vehicles only). Figuring the terrain, objectives and battlefield conditions (both the literal conditions and deployment) are part of your Strategy too. 

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3 hours ago, Big Easy said:

With AT-ST and Arsenal 2 and speeder bikes rolling dice, I consider that substantial burst relative to what the Rebels are packing. I also see suppression as a consolation for when the dice aren't working out for you or heavy cover is an issue--concentrating fire on a tactically important squad might not yield enough hits from your stormtroopers but they will at least force the Rebels to Recover instead of aiming or dodging.

I'd agree if the volume of  white dice there are wern't in there. The 5-12 black dice + surge to crit! On a atrt is brutal. As for supression, once again any rebel list has an auto 1 free unit advantage over a imp list including vader. They will be throwing out more consistant suppression (unless vader makes really, really good use of his command cards)

Edited by Ralgon

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1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

Stormtroopers should last a lot long with at least double the number of blocks on their defense dice, right?

Stormtroopers have a 50-50 chance of canceling a hit (Red defense dice are six sided dice with 3 block facings), while Rebel Troopers have a 33-66 chance of canceling a hit (White defense dice are six sided dice with only one block facing, but rebel troopers also convert surges on defense dice to a block, which gives them two facing on their defense die that cancel a hit). Nimble+Leia will give them a lot stronger defense, though.

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okay, that's not that much better.  I think the Rebels are the winners here because black dice are waaaay better than white dice and Nimble really helps even the score.  The Storm Troopers have 2 good special guns but that Ion 57 the Rebs carry is still pretty potent. Right you can't block a Critical hit? The Ion 57 gun should get at least one almost guaranteed.

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It is an objective base game. If a bunch of troops can get the objective done over an AT-ST then yeah, they will be great. Terrain heavy maps will also make troopers more effective.

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4 hours ago, buckero0 said:

okay, that's not that much better.  I think the Rebels are the winners here because black dice are waaaay better than white dice and Nimble really helps even the score.  The Storm Troopers have 2 good special guns but that Ion 57 the Rebs carry is still pretty potent. Right you can't block a Critical hit? The Ion 57 gun should get at least one almost guaranteed.

Keep surges in mind; Storm troopers convert surges on attack dice to hits, so their basic gun is only slightly less accurate than the rebels' (3/8 vs. 4/8). So storm troopers are slightly less acurate, but slightly more durable. I think Rebel troopers win out keyword-wise, but the Stormtroopers seem to have the better specialist guns.

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Yeah but with Nimble and a price per figure cheaper, the Rebels may shine as barebones 55pts for 5 with grenades

The stormtroopers may be better because of their weapons (both look good)  vehicles with Armor look way tougher than i thought.

I do like that the units are balanced well so far.  I wonder what else they can add long-term say 4 years from now ( unless they are going to an Armada or ImpAssault release model)

Edited by buckero0

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Its interesting as it appears without playing the game or doing hard math myself that Storm troopers and Rebels are quite evenly matched. However stormtroopers cost a point more so guess time will tell.

The DLT seems a great all round weapon though.

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Not to derail the thread, but since we're just theoryizing. (is that a word?)  My plan with the Rebels right now is just to run 5 plain rebels (50pts) and that way I can squeeze more RtSts or snow speeders in. The ion blaster seems too unreliable (not dicewise but vs armor, it doesn't do enough damage or crits) and short-range.  Maybe I'll put impact grenades on all of them. for 4 units that's still only 220pts.

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On 03/03/2018 at 12:52 AM, Big Easy said:

Lots of troops=lots of battlefield flexibility. The main downside is those scary comments about fielding two AT-STs or two T-47s. Troops will have an advantage for objectives, but they will have a hard time staying alive!

Incorrect. The at-st/t-47 can only attack 2 (4 with Weiss) targets per round. If you ion them and/or concentrate your fire on them, they will be rendered useless, or die. And also, 2 heavy units will eat up a lot of points leaving not much else in the way. You could easily outmanoeuvre them.

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3 minutes ago, Jabby said:

Incorrect. The at-st/t-47 can only attack 2 (4 with Weiss) targets per round. If you ion them and/or concentrate your fire on them, they will be rendered useless, or die. And also, 2 heavy units will eat up a lot of points leaving not much else in the way. You could easily outmanoeuvre them.

I disagree with this, supposedly according to the rules as written, Weiss won't affect the Arsenal on the ATST so unless they FAQ that, he's probably not worth taking.

With any cover or a dodge token or a little bit of luck, you are not guaranteed a hit with your ion blaster and could be dodge out of. Armor is super strong against this weapon. That and the ATST out ranges the ion gun so shoot and suppress with the mortar and that's 2 suppression tokens and 2-3 dead troopers. Then the ATST can back up and do it again next turn.  I think double ATSTs are going to be the bane of trooper lists.

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