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Bucho

soak....really?

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Keep it short time in world for the characters, have full adventures run over only a day or two with little to no downtime. This really limits healing, it makes those 5 healing potions a day really matter.

Keep the players moving, they should be worried about running out of Strain a lot.

Crit often. Wounds in this game really are not that serious, they are the smaller things in life that just build up. Long term injury is what Critical Injuries are, if they are carrying three or four then dealt is actually possible. 

Have more than just their story happening. If they choose to go off and save the nearby town then they should also hear about the other three that the beastmen ransacked.

 

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1 hour ago, Richardbuxton said:

Crit often. Wounds in this game really are not that serious, they are the smaller things in life that just build up. Long term injury is what Critical Injuries are, if they are carrying three or four then dealt is actually possible.

1

I cannot stress this part enough. Many people, especially those who are used to d20 and its ilk, see wounds as how close to death you are. But in Genesys that's covered by critical injuries. Wounds are, as others have mentioned, are the small nicks, cuts and bruises you get during your adventuring day. Critical injuries are the solid hits that really affect your character. Critical injuries hurt while wounds just sting.

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13 minutes ago, c__beck said:

Wounds are, as others have mentioned, are the small nicks, cuts and bruises you get during your adventuring day. .....  Critical injuries hurt while wounds just sting.

And a big brawny character, or one wearing heavy armor, can absorb (or, one might say, soak up) a lot more of those kinds of cuts and bruises than an office worker in polyester can. 

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Because soak is directly based off of a character's Brawn, it means big tough characters are harder to kill and have a higher resistance to pain than physically weak characters (low Brawn). And armor that increases soak protects the wearer, y'know, like armor is supposed to do. That's all.

Increase grittiness by making resources scarce, by using attacks with Pierce and Vicious, by inflicting more critical injuries, by making healing harder to do, and by enforcing recovery time on critically injured characters. Soak will offer a gentle counterbalance to the lethality.

If you're worried about players leaning on violence too often, take a hard line on characters who often result to violence; legal action, investigations, ostracize, whatever is appropriate for the setting.

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16 hours ago, ghatt said:

One attack does not equal a single pull of the trigger, but a series of attacks over a period of abstracted time. This game isn't d20 where one turn equals 6 seconds. A single turn in this game is how long the narrative requires it to be. 

Oh no, it's back to that....

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2 hours ago, Grimmerling said:

Are they now?

Those large foamy ones are far comfier than plastic balls, for what it's worth. 

 

Don't swim in d4s!

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On 3/3/2018 at 1:04 PM, TheSapient said:

If you start at Chapter 1, you will see that the dice are the first thing they talk about.  

Perhaps you might want to watch some videos of people actually playing Genesys or Star Wars to get a feel for how it all works.  

Video is a good suggestion. 

Would you say this is the best RPG out there and if so why?

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2 hours ago, Slaunyeh said:

As a warning for the OP, they also use the word "Brawn" (I'm not even kidding), I think that's really all you need to know.

I know huh, I was getting worried that I was talking solely to people who thought that was a great choice...

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On 3/2/2018 at 5:16 PM, Richardbuxton said:

Does this game work? Definitely.

Is it fun? Absolutely.

Are there holes/problems in the system? Every system has problems for every player, what those actual problems are though depends who you ask, what type of games you have previously played and what your group expect from a game.

Would you say this is the best RPG out there?

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You are the first I have ever heard complain about Soak either as a name....

That really worries me.

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The simple fact that it wasn’t the dice that you reacted to first is a good sign.

Actually I do have a negative reaction to them. FFG's dice are a lower quality than some other options so getting locked into their dice is kind of a big deal and....having the wacky symbols doesn't seem to be the lowest entry cost option either.

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Overall there’s a core system in the book, with a bunch of modular options to add on for different settings. The core rules are a slightly revised version of rules from Star Wars that have been in constant heavy use for over 5 years. They are definitely solid, although traditional d20 players typically need some help to adjust.

Why would you say that d20 players have a hard time with it?

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If you want a game that runs straight from the book then the Realms of Terrinoth (fantasy setting) book will be what you need, and likely at least the PDF of the core book.

I'd gotten that far, the Realms of Terrinoth setting book is the only reason I started looking at this system.

 

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1 hour ago, Bucho said:

Video is a good suggestion. 

Would you say this is the best RPG out there and if so why?

I would not say it is the best RPG out there.

How is the reading going?  Made it to chapter 1 yet?

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1 hour ago, Bucho said:

Would you say this is the best RPG out there and if so why?

Best overall? Hard to say. The game is still young and we haven’t yet seen all the potential design space that can be used. The core book, while including enough to play, is very bare bones and most groups will want quite a bit more fleshed out for any given genre/setting. Plus, different players want different things from their games.

I would say that the dice system is definitely the best out there. The degree to which adding an additional axis of randomization expands the options in the game, both mechanically and narratively, is truly staggering. You could practically run a game with no other rules than JUST the dice/stats and be better off than many previously published, fully developed games. 

Edited by Forgottenlore

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Is it the best? That is very subjective. It is one of my favorite. I have played and used the Star Wars system pretty much since its beta release. 

Why do d20 players have some issues? Because they are used to pass/fail systems. The multiaxial results of the narrative dice mean thinking more on integrating the results. Some people are just more comfortable with "did I succeed or fail".

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3 hours ago, Bucho said:

Would you say this is the best RPG out there?

That really worries me.

Actually I do have a negative reaction to them. FFG's dice are a lower quality than some other options so getting locked into their dice is kind of a big deal and....having the wacky symbols doesn't seem to be the lowest entry cost option either.

Why would you say that d20 players have a hard time with it?

I'd gotten that far, the Realms of Terrinoth setting book is the only reason I started looking at this system.

 

My favorite RPG is probably still L5R. The SW narrative RPG is up there in my top couple along with Pathfinder. Hopefully I will get a chance to mess around with GeneSys later on.

Why does it worry you that others have not heard people complain about the word "soak" as it is used in RPGs before? As stated in my previous post, people have quite different experiences in gaming. 

The dice issue can be a game breaker for people, both the having to buy FFG's specific product as well as the symbol based nature. It tends to be a little easier for some people to grasp depending on the sort of board games they have played before. Board games with unique dice are more common than RPGs with such.

For my personal experience, the reason d20 players have issues is not just the binary nature of d20, but also the way actions are generic with the dice giving the specifics. Players newer to RPGs in my experience have less issues comprehending the flow the narrative dice system. D20 players tend to have built in experiences they have to work pass, as this is a system with a few approaches that go against the traditional game. It is not the most unusual game by far, but enough to take a  little bit to get how things work differently. Just my experience.

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5 hours ago, Bucho said:

Why would you say that d20 players have a hard time with it?

If they use a d20 mindset on the rules (pass/fail resolution, 6-second rounds, hard ranges, 15-foot-cones, etc), it can be problematic. I've seen it happen a few times where people just refuse to see the game except through a d20 lens. 

But I've also seen players go from earlier editions of D&D and Star Wars Saga Edition to FFG's Star Wars RPG and breathe a collective sigh of relief.

And I have a few players myself that have stated on more than one occasion that they're not interested in d20 anymore. So for some, I think it scratches an itch—it did for me coming out of Saga Edition almost 6 years ago. 

(To be fair, Saga Edition saved us from the mess that was the RCR—it's a solid system, a shining example of what 4e could have been :D)

5 hours ago, Bucho said:

Would you say this is the best RPG out there?

If you're asking everyone here, then no. I'd say it's see definitely the most flexible I've ever played—both in terms of setting and in terms of game system. I love the dual axis of skill check resolution and and I love how everything is a skill—there's no separate rules for calculating saving throws, attacks, skills, spells, combat maneuvers, etc. Just train in the skills and build your dice pools.

And with the simplifications/improvements they've made to the Star Wars ruleset with Genesys, I'm finding the narrative dice system even more to my liking.

But...I think I prefer D&D 5th Edition as a game. It is easier to teach to beginners since it has a more gradual learning curve, even though it's more rules-heavy than Genesys. And I'm big on getting other people into the hobby. 

At any rate, I'm working on a homebrew setting to play with some friends, since we're all excited about Genesys and have played for years with the Star Wars rules. D&D is great, but sometimes it's nice to have Advantage/Threat thrown in the mix :)

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5 hours ago, Bucho said:

Would you say this is the best RPG out there?

That really worries me.

Actually I do have a negative reaction to them. FFG's dice are a lower quality than some other options so getting locked into their dice is kind of a big deal and....having the wacky symbols doesn't seem to be the lowest entry cost option either.

Why would you say that d20 players have a hard time with it?

I'd gotten that far, the Realms of Terrinoth setting book is the only reason I started looking at this system.

 

Best RPG? To me absolutely, but to the world probably not. Many people who like RPG’s really want the board game simulator of d20 pathfinder, d&d 3.5, d&d 5e. I don’t. Imho there are a lot of people who don’t play RPG’s that would if they knew of games like Genesys.

I do wish some of the dice companies would license FFG dice to give us cool options, if Genesys goes well then it’s far more likely than the Star Wars dice, thanks to no Disney/LFL involvement.

@awayputurwpn gave good reasons, I’ll ad some more as to why a d20 player can struggle. d20 requires a player to decide exactly what they are doing, the dm sets the TN, the roll happens and the task is either done or not done. The roll of the dice happens at the end of the Action.

In this system it is very different, the roll happens in the middle. You come up with a broad idea and the dice pool is built. Then after rolling the dice you get to decide what actually happens, it’s this decision after rolling the often messes with the flow of a d20 mindset. 

As an example the character wants to run down the hall, leap of the balcony swing by the chandelier, land on the table and stab the bad guy. In d&d that’s probably a bunch of checks, in this system it’s 2 manoeuvres and an Attack action with upgrades and Setback to the dice.

Another problem tied into this is defining very precisely the actions. searching is another example “I search the room for traps” is a common d&d phrase. But in this system you could say “I’m looking around the room for anything suspicious” or better still “I’m looking for interesting things as we move through this building” one roll can cover searching an entire building 

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I think the idea of a "best RPG" is pretty silly. 

I very much love the narrative dice system.  Is Genesys the "best FFG narrative dice RPG"?  Even that, I'm not sure of.  It has many improvements over Star Wars, but it is not a complete game in and of itself, while SW has a massive amount of supporting material.

Is FFG's narrative system better than other systems.  It can be.  But a given player may not enjoy it.  It isn't for those who want a detailed simulation.  It is not specific to any beloved source material.  It is what *I* would most want to play on any random day.  

 

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On 4.3.2018 at 11:17 PM, Tabulazero said:

I wish. What I like about Genesys is that its a game that put narration forward... but how do you reflect soak in the narration ? Near misses ? Parry ? but somehow damages still get through ?... weird isn't it.

In narrative I see Soak more as armor or clothes (or simply just body) partially absorbing the energy of attack so that target takes less actual damage. If defense dice give the failures and cause the attack to miss, then it's dodge. Of course this is all open to interpretation. "The enemy hits you with the sword, but the hit isn't perfect and your clothes and armor absord the most of the damage, and you only have a minor hit, taking 2 wounds."

17 hours ago, Bucho said:

Would you say this is the best RPG out there?

No. But it's my favourite. Being best would require there to be a universal criteria what kind of games are globally best. Different people and groups enjoy different games. Sometimes I like to play highly realistic and simulationistic games, in those times I choose different system than when I want to play pulpy fast paced narrative systems. Also, different system work with different styles. I probably wouldn't choose Genesys for highly lethal and gritty game. For that my choice would probably be the SilCORE.

I love Genesys because it transfers narrative power, usually associated with GM, to players, empowering them. It also gives new kind of success experiences to players. SW and Genesys changed our games to more cooperative and less adversarial (e.g. GM vs. PCs). And it's fast. We played an 82 session SW campaign at the time it took to play last sixth of our Pathfinder campaign. But, we tend to dislike combats, and for us they are the more boring part of game. We find it more enjoyable to invent optional ways to bypass combats. 

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26 minutes ago, kkuja said:

In narrative I see Soak more as armor or clothes (or simply just body) partially absorbing the energy of attack so that target takes less actual damage. If defense dice give the failures and cause the attack to miss, then it's dodge. Of course this is all open to interpretation. "The enemy hits you with the sword, but the hit isn't perfect and your clothes and armor absord the most of the damage, and you only have a minor hit, taking 2 wounds."

...

In a way, the term "Wound" might not be the most appropriate for what wounds are exactly in a narrative game. The way I understand Wounds now after reading this thread is that it represent your capacity to take punishment as opposed to Critical Wounds which represent debilitating injuries.

Maybe “Grit” would be a better term (is "fightiness" an english word?) but this then raises another question: if Wounds represent your capacity to remain in the fight, why separate it in two pools (Wounds & Strain) ?

The sight of your “Dear Leader” high tailing from the battlefield can be as devastating to your ability to fight as a sucker punch.

Edited by Tabulazero

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