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Converting DH Psychic Powers to RT

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Every one of you are basing all of this off of assumptions. If I write a an entire book about a dog without ever making mention of him having 4 legs, are you just going to assume he has no legs at all? There is absolutely no evidence saying that astropaths cannot learn imperial psyker powers. There is only a lack of authors saying they can.

Neither one of our arguments are valid, and that is the only point I'm trying to prove.

If you allow astropaths to use Imperial Psyker powers, thats a houserule.
If you disallow astropaths to use Imperial Psyker powers, thats a houserule.

There is no right answer, therefore there is no wrong answer.

 

@Voronesh: We're talking about something that completely defies common sense (psychic power). Comparing that to something as common sense as the inability to fly under one's own power is just being ridiculous and doing absolutely nothing to advance the conversation.
Common Sense: Into the Storm only lists a tactical and cruising speed for vehicles. Common sense of course dictates you can drive a vehicle at a speed of anywhere from 0kph to its maximum speed.
Not Common Sense: Trying to draw comparative conclusions from anything warp-related, as it doesn't exist in the real world.

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MILLANDSON said:

 

Imperial Psykers and Astropaths are two completely different levels of psyker - one was powerful enough to control his powers, and so has greater reign over them, and the other required soul binding to control his powers, which in turn restricts him to Astropathic duties. In the entire canon, there's never, from what I've seen, been astropaths throwing around fireballs or lightning - it's always been mental powers, be it telepathy, telekinesis, divination, and the like.

If you don't like it, don't follow the canon - but given that GW have had numerous astropath characters in novels and the fluff in the past, I'm sure they'd have mentioned their ability to cast lightning at their foes before now.

 

 

 

Didnt we have the case of there is no canon and there is no noncanon just a thread up? gran_risa.gif

CS Goto simply hasnt written an astropath novel yet. Neither has Matt Ward written the Astropath fluff section of some Codex yet.

Wait for it, theyll throw multilaser powers or something similar soon enough.

 

@WhiteLycan:

I got what you meant. You are in camp B. Millandson is in camp A. That simple. I am in camp C (the I dont care camp), since mental control powers and mind probes are some of the more powerful psychic powers in my eyes. (Why throw lightning if you can carry a Stormbolter?;(Answer: so you can carry two lighnting claws insteaddemonio.gif))

 

Addendum:
After reading the comm tent with a lascannon comment for the 5th time. This is 40k, they would do it. I mean there is an Inquisitor with a freaking Psycannon on his shoulder. The lascannon on a comm tent would be pretty meh against that.

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Since upgrading to RT, I find psykers much less of a problem then in DH.

The fact that the rest of the group is running around with plasma guns and power swords makes the Psyker much less potent by comparison.  Note that they are no less potent, but that the rest of the group does not feel as overshadowed by the Psykers. 

For this reason, I have no reason whatsoever to force the DH system on my group's psykers, a fact that they appreciate.  I was initially concerned that the change would make the Psykers overpowered but as a setting, RT does a pretty good job of empowering all characters across the board.  In short, I have Psyker's throwing bio-lightning now "cause its cool" and not because its the best way to deal damage.  The Arch-militant types are just about as effective in raw damage dealing abilities, and about as sturdy as a Psyker that turns on their defensive modes/powers (which curtails their offensive powers somewhat).

From my experience, Psykers in DH were OP for two reasons.  The first being their power progression being completely at odds with the rest of the group, with a wonky Phenomena system as a "supposed" balance factor.  The second being that many psychic powers were worded oddly or allowed Psyker's to do far too much with their psychic powers (Precision Telekinesis comes to mind).  This allowed psykers to basically only bother boosting their Willpower + psychic talents to become god-like.  Everything else was secondary or even trivial, which again was out of sync with all other DH characters who generally spread their efforts.

Thanks for these conversion rules.  They will greatly expand the options my players will have.

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 Hi, I think that your conversion of DH powers into the RT mechanics is great! It’s something I’ve been looking for for a while for my game, and while I like it I do have questions and comments.

 

Firstly, I took a look at your posting on Myth Weaver I noted that rather than using a degree of success system for overbleed you instead use a “difference of success” system. I personally think that a degree of success system feels much more smooth and works better from a rule-ease-of-use standpoint, but is there a mechanical reason why you changed it?

 

Secondly, I think that the basic techniques for Pyromancy and Biomancy are really really awesome, but I feel that they go beyond the scope for what could be called a “basic technique.” While I like how the powers have been translated I feel that the basic techniques could be toned down a bit or made into multiple separate psychic techniques in addition to the ones found in the DH book.

 

Aside from these two items I love your conversion and Intend to use it in my RT games for psykers.

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Something to consider about the conversions are that they are not for players alone. Perhaps a GM wishes to make use of a Sorcerer as an antagonist, but finds the RT ruleset rather lacking in that regard. Now, he can build a Sorcerer that will wield terrifying and awesome powers of the Empyrean.

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 Not sure if this was covered: the RT core lists "Rite of Sanctioning" or Soul Bound talents in rank 1 for Astropaths. You can have one or the other but not both. This leads me to believe Sanctioned psykers can definitely learn Astropathy (given the auto addition of it to the career) even if "astropaths" can't learn those other powers.

 

Also, the Transubstantial initiate alternate path makes me think as far as RT goes a psyker is a psyker is a psyker. 

 

Finally: awesome conversions, makes me want to rebuild my Astropath for biomancy. 

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I know this is a nerco, but I do like that the OP has done.  I really do not see why an astropath could not learn Psyker skills. They are not really weaker in power, the diffence seems to be that Astropaths could not use power alone  very long without being corrupted. I feel it would be rare as most look to expand the talents they already have, but I see no reason why they could not. A transendent is rare among Astropaths anyhow, they are someone who have strong enough will and desire to climb above the Rest in the first place.

 

 

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Personally I prefer the approach of having Sanctioned Psycher and Astropath be different careers and have different options available to them.
To compensate for their greater protection (from the Soul-binding trait) Astropaths are limited to the disciplines from Rogue Trader (I would even go as far as to suggest they should maybe lose Telekinesis and probably lose Theomancy too).


Sanctioned Psycher’s would get access to all the disciplines that didn’t require being an Astropath (so weaker Telepathy essentially). Based on the fluff as I understand it though – most sanctioned psychers only get powers from one major discipline (at least initially) so I would probably say that Astropaths can mix there disciplines but that Sanctioned Psycher’s have to complete one discipline before they can start another.


Doing this gives flavour and difference to each character and would make it meaningful for players to make a choice between them. Obviously it’s not really necessary to differentiate between them if only one player is being a psycher type character – but this way you could have two players playing different kinds.
 

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I agree that Astropaths and Psykers shouldn't have the same powers; everything from the fluff I've read (which isn't alot, but I've read some of the books) denotes that Astropaths are fundamentally altered by the Soul Binding process. It's also relatively balanced -- you're powers are shaped to the Emperor's will, and in return, you have the greater flexibility in the use of the powers you do have. I'd definitely agree with converting over Divination, Telepathy, and Telekenesis powers, though adopting some powers from Witchbane or Deamonbane (though most of the latter are already in it) for Theosophamy is also a good idea IMHO.

While I don't necessarily agree that Astropaths are fundamentally weaker than psykers, I think it's reasonable to say that there are more, weaker Astropaths who are allowed to survive because of the Soul Binding than there are Sanctioned psykers who are allowed the same. Given that Astropath Transcendants are a described in the book as a step above, it's safe to assume that they're the ones built of tougher stuff and equivalent to Sanctioned Psykers of equal power levels.

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For me, I'd say the various psyker types have their own powers, and they are separate, more or less exclusive. Otherwise, I might be able to play a Human psyker from Fenris, who can summon the Wolf Spirits, or at least Smite. If I went off on a weird angle, I might learn Guide from the Eldar. 40K seems to like to pull a D&D on us, and have each "type" of psyker/caster have their list of powers/spells. Astropaths learn their specific stuff, Imperial psykers do their own stuff, the Eldar have their own cool powers, and Nids bring cool things no one else can do (I would love to have a cheesy-level psyker who could Warp Blast/Lance and Warp Field, but that would be silly; oh the tank-busting!). I'd like things to be a bit more integrated, as combat-psyker is more my idea, rather than the robes-and-mutters walking vox box. There are plenty of reasons a party could want a combat-psyker, like both other game's parties.

As an aside, I do wonder something, though. You are playing RT, and your character happens to get the Wyrdling mutation (lucky bastard, considering some of the more debilitating mutations). Now, say your character decides to run with it, and the party does, too (Rogue Traders and friends often break every rule they can get their grubby paws on, so why not hold on to one surprise-psyker?), what sort of powers are they going to get? Offensive powers seem a bit in short supply. Has anyone playing ever run a character who actually had something along these lines? Did you grab anything from DH, or just play an Astropath without the shot vision (that doesn't limit them), and constant text messages?

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