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RStan

Must Haves or Auto Takes

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As a new player I'm trying to assess what deployment cards and command cards are high priority to take in certain lists and/or factions. 

For example, is there any reason to not have both Take Initiative and Negation in every Command Deck? Do all Imperial lists need Zillo Technique? Please if anybody has examples of the contrary, I'd like to be well informed.

On top of that, what are other must haves/auto takes everyone else uses that you decided to leave at home, what made you decide to do that, and how did it work out?

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everytime i've tried Imperials without Zillo, i always wish i had taken it. 

Take initiative and Negation are so important in CC decks, i've lost count of how many times Negation has saved my butt or how many times Take Initiative has solidified my win

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Zillo is kinda a must I feel.

Take Initiative isn't a must - but its good to use it to draw out Negation so that it isnt played on something more important

Negation is definitely too good to pass up~

Tough Luck is also an incredibly good card. I don't think there are many or any lists that have no rerolls whatsoever - heck, command cards can give rerolls. Lifesaver to make an attack miss when one rerolls to get enough accuracy or a missing surge and you just cut that short.

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Element of surprise is absolutely an auto include in every type of list. 

Auto includes need to be flexible enough for a variety of figures to use, regardless of trait. Celebration, Brace for Impact, and Stealth Tactics fit that mold, but you’ll get squeezed for cards/points in some lists. I hate when I have to drop one of those cards.

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If you’re playing Scum with Devious Scheme fx, you can do without Take Initiative. Negation is generally more important I’d say. 

It really depends on your list of choice imo. Playing rebel smugglers without On The Lam would feel weak, but a Trooper/ hunter list wouldn’t need it. 

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My only "must have" command card is Negation. There are so many good 0 point cards to block, that it is never a waste to bring into a list.  Most of the time Element of Surprise, Planning and Celebration make into my lists as well.  Take initiative is really great if you have activations to spare, but in low activation lists it can hurt more often than it helps.  I would love to put some other 1 point command cards(tough luck, camouflage) up there, but I find that my list type will determine where those points need to be spent.  With the Rebels I always take a good hard look at Heart of Freedom, but it only makes it in about half the time.

Deployment card wise for Imperials I almost always grab an Officer and Rule by Fear.  Zillo is great but recently I keep seeing my figures way over killed by hunters and 3 dice figures.  For the Rebels some combination of Gideon, Hera and 3P0 always make it in.  I don't really have a staple in my Merc lists, but if I had to chose one it would be Onar.  Nothing keeps people away from my figures like a focused Onar who hasn't activated.

Edited by HeliosLancer

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If you already have Devious Schemes, Take Initiative is not a must have. Still good, but definitely not a must have.

If you don't have a cheap figure to tap for Take Initiative (like an Imperial Officer), then don't take that card.

When I have Zillo, I always include Rule by Fear as well. This RbF makes that already great Zillo so much better.

When I have Vader, I also include Unshakable as well.

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As for command cards:

My personal auto-includes: Negation, Take Initiative, Element of Surprise, Planning

My almost always includes, which are more meta dependent: Tough Luck

Assuming I have the appropriate deployments in my army, I always take: On the Lam for smugglers. Assassinate and Heightened Reflexes for hunters. Call the Vanguard for strong troopers. This probably goes without saying, Son of Skywalker/Blaze of Glory for Luke/IG.

As for deployments:

In Rebels, I almost always start with a base of Gideon, Hera, C3PO, and since the last map rotation, R2D2.

In Scum I almost always start with a base of Elite Jawa, C3PO, Temporary Alliance, Gideon, Hera, Black Market.

In Empire I always bring Zillo and at least 1 regular officer, most of the time 2.

Edited by turkishvancat

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For deployment cards I'd say this:

Rebels - Mandatory - Regular Smuggler and Threepio (both cheap and effective). Splurge -as per@ryanjamal ---to bring a wookie. Chewy is super fun. Debts repaid is great.

Imperials - Mandatory -  Zillo Technique and Imperial Officer (both cheap and effective). Splurge - Emperor - he's super fun as his free actions are slick.  

Mercenaries - Mandatory - Greedo (cheap, effective, and GIA [Greedo is awesome]). Splurge - IG-88 because he's a beast and game changer.  

Command Cards I say this:

Element of Surprise, Urgency, Tough Luck, Take Initiative (if you have a cheap unit), Negation, Brace for Impact

Others depends on your faction and list. I hope this helps.

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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12 hours ago, RStan said:

As a new player I'm trying to assess what deployment cards and command cards are high priority to take in certain lists and/or factions. 

For example, is there any reason to not have both Take Initiative and Negation in every Command Deck? Do all Imperial lists need Zillo Technique? Please if anybody has examples of the contrary, I'd like to be well informed.

On top of that, what are other must haves/auto takes everyone else uses that you decided to leave at home, what made you decide to do that, and how did it work out?

Command cards are one thing, but for deployment cards, it is not a good path to happiness to get too invested in the math loopholes. At the end of the day the stats and game outcomes are all pretend. Buy the (actual, real, physical) figures you like.

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8 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Command cards are one thing, but for deployment cards, it is not a good path to happiness to get too invested in the math loopholes. At the end of the day the stats and game outcomes are all pretend. Buy the (actual, real, physical) figures you like.

Oh I'll definitely play what I enjoy, I'm just looking for stuff that is considered top priority to help me build lists initially and try them out either with or without as I play the game more. The question(s) that really hasn't been answered much that I asked was this: 

"What are other must haves/auto takes everyone else uses that you decided to leave at home, what made you decide to do that, and how did it work out?"

I definitely appreciate all the replies so far, but I'm pretty curious about answers for those questions. 

Edited by RStan

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3 hours ago, RStan said:

The question(s) that really hasn't been answered much that I asked was this: 

"What are other must haves/auto takes everyone else uses that you decided to leave at home, what made you decide to do that, and how did it work out?"

This is a bit difficult to answer. The cards listed in this thread are very low cost, and very versatile. There's mostly no reason not to include them, except for very specific cases (Planning needs a leader to be most effective, Take Initiative requires a small deployment card to tap, etc.). The answer to "how did it work out" is that you're sacrificing versatility for specificity; not including these cards can work out sometimes, but most of the time you're better off with them. That's also why they're considered auto-includes.

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I start pretty much every command deck with Take Initiative, Negation, Element of Surprise, Planning, Positioning Advantage, and Tough Luck. There are very few cases where I end up dropping one of these cards. After that I tailor to specific traits/deployments.

For instance, if I'm running multiple Hunters then I always include Assassinate, Heightened Reflexes, and Tools for the Job. If I have Han and/or multiple Smugglers, I always take On the Lam and Tools. If I'm running Jet Troopers, I always try to fit Call the Vanguard, Grenadier, Fuel Upgrade, and Overrun. If I have Vader I always take Dark Energy and at least a couple more movement cards. Any list with at least one Spy should always take Intelligence Leak, and if you have multiple Spies it's hard to pass up Comm Disruption. I could keep going...

And as far as Deployments go, that's a bit tougher. If I'm talking purely from a competitive standpoint then I'd say every Imperial list should start with Zillo + one rOfficer, every Rebel list should start with RCP + Hera, and every Scum list should start with IG-88 + RCP + Devious (and probably Greedo).

Edited by defkhan1

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4 hours ago, RStan said:

"What are other must haves/auto takes everyone else uses that you decided to leave at home, what made you decide to do that, and how did it work out?"

I definitely appreciate all the replies so far, but I'm pretty curious about answers for those questions. 

I have made a few lists without Take Initiative. There are some situations where the card doesn’t bring as much value, as you’ll have Initiative in the rounds you need it anyway. Some opponents will also consider Negation to be a hard counter for TI, and may not play it against other influential 0 cost cards. I’ve seen opponents sit on negation until the end when I didn’t include Take Initiative. 

Across several games in a tournament, it’s still better to bring, but you could maybe do ok without it in a few games if you wanted to try out some other stuff.  

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2 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

I have made a few lists without Take Initiative. There are some situations where the card doesn’t bring as much value, as you’ll have Initiative in the rounds you need it anyway. Some opponents will also consider Negation to be a hard counter for TI, and may not play it against other influential 0 cost cards. I’ve seen opponents sit on negation until the end when I didn’t include Take Initiative.  

I sometimes play lists without cheap supports. So, if you burn an activation as a result of TI, it sometimes seems not worth it. In saying that, it was interesting when I lost to Logan's Han/Leia I love you list at Michigan Regionals, he used TI and burned Jyn's activation. 

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Gideon and 3PO are must haves for Rebels and Mercs, EXCEPT you either don't need their focus or you have Jabba instead of one of them. But these are high end decisions. You should be absolutely sure about what you are doing, if you don't take Gideon and 3PO for Rebels or Mercs.

Hera is good. Certainly no must have, but again you should be absolutely sure about what you are doing, if you don't take her for Rebels.

At the moment most people play either Vader, Han Solo, Jedi Luke or IG-88. This is no must, but a good point to start from. Again you should be absolutely sure about what you are doing, if you don't take one of them.

I always have one figure, that is designated to go for the terminal on my side. This is a must. Chopper, R2, a Smuggler, whatever suits your style of play, it doesn't really matter. But you have to have a terminal sitter.

Most people have some cheap figures to open doors and/or go for mission objectives. I prefer rHired Guns, rJets, rRiots or rSmugglers, again use whatever suits your style of play. But if Vader ends up opening a door for himself, you did something wrong. Hard hitting close combat figures are good for mission objective control, too. Gammorreans, eRiots, figures like this ...

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I dunno man. I take Wampas, Echo Base Troops, MHD and Saska. With the leftover other points I take... whatever. I I ignore the more favored support figs such as Gideon and 3PO and run right up close to people and tear things apart. You lose a guy or five on the way in but, usually MHD can patch some of them up.  I do not play in competitions though, just in my regular gaming group for the most part. The only time I take 3PO is for a themed movie list like, Han, Leia, Chewie and 3PO are a skirmish sized force and I painted my Han to look like he is wearing a long sleeved blue jacket, so I am taking the Millenium Falcon crew from ESB.

 

 

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For Vader at least I'd say opening doors is less of an issue in the current rotation. On Nal Hutta there's no doors, on Jabba's Palace you're better of playing in the maze with Vader than opening the door to the throne room, and Mos Eisley has an auto door opening mechanic. Obviously you should still have Officers and some guy running objectives.

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Surprisingly I never take Negation. I need to get on that lol.

Rule By Fear is a good Imperial card. It is even better if you have Shared Experience and/or Targeting Network in your deck because there is a possibility you may draw those cards, discard them, and redraw them.

However, one deployment point can change your whole army, and RBF basically only allows you a few more cards.

But in my experience, cards always change the game.

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When building lists, I've been trying to work on picking alternatives to the Command Card Crucial Five: 

  • Take Initiative - I've been trying to weigh the risk vs. reward of including this card when you are running a list with 7 activations or less. If I'm running 8 activations, I will definitely include it since I will want to exploit an initiative steal in the 2nd round with figures that need to find cover. But sometimes with 7 activations... even the terminal sitter might need to be available to move or use a special ability to help push the battle in my favor. Given the importance of going first on Round 2, it's tough to leave this card out; but if you expect to have 5 cards in your hand by the start of Round 2, you only have a 38.9% chance of drawing it.
  • Negation - If you don't own Return to Hoth, you don't have to run this card. It's definitely the Take Initiative counter but it is dead weight in your hand if you hold it for TI and if your opponent never plays it. At least Imperials can Zillo it. It will help in Spy-like control command decks (with Comm Disruption, Intelligence Leak, etc.). For the last couple of months, I've been running lists without it... but I'm not 100% sure I'd go to a Region without it.
  • Element of Surprise - The more melee characters you run, the less helpful this card will be to you. It's not a guaranteed play when using close-attacking figures like Bossk or Jet Troopers. But of all of these cards... this is the one that I'm the most likely to include.
  • Planning - If I'm not running at least 3 Leaders or Jabba, I don't pick Planning. When I do pick Planning, I'm sure to fill the deck with milling cards (Officer's Training, Black Market, etc.) and make sure my other cards are heavy-hitters.
  • Positioning Advantage - Depending on your list, Ready Weapons or Looking For A Fight will add a damage to an attack and do extra stuff. Mitigate & Targeting Network might be more appropriate if you figures benefit more from a reroll.

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15 hours ago, cnemmick said:

Negation - If you don't own Return to Hoth, you don't have to run this card. It's definitely the Take Initiative counter but it is dead weight in your hand if you hold it for TI and if your opponent never plays it.

Not sure I entirely agree with you here. While you may consider it dead weight while you wait for TI, once round 2 has started, it's time to start considering the next zero pt card they play to negate. Negating Element of Surprise, Positioning Advantage, Celebration, Planning, and several other zero pt cards can be the difference between a dead or alive figure. Even a win vs a lose. Negation is for sure a counter to TI, but even if TI is disbanded, Negation will always be in my decks.

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34 minutes ago, wannabepudge said:

Not sure I entirely agree with you here. While you may consider it dead weight while you wait for TI, once round 2 has started, it's time to start considering the next zero pt card they play to negate. Negating Element of Surprise, Positioning Advantage, Celebration, Planning, and several other zero pt cards can be the difference between a dead or alive figure. Even a win vs a lose. Negation is for sure a counter to TI, but even if TI is disbanded, Negation will always be in my decks.

To add onto this, negating 0 point movement cards can be an especially effective move. I've had Fleet Footed and Urgency cancelled on me more than once to prevent a deadly attack on a big figure or claiming a crucial objective. With all the strong 0 point cards available, Negation is a pretty strong card regardless of being tagged as the Take Initiative counter.

Edited by The Archangel
Correction of CC title

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