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Pollux85

The Anti-Hero Guide

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Gideon: Stun his BFFs after they activate and move themselves into position for the double attack from Master Stroke. 

If you don't have access to Stun, force Gideon to withdraw asap. Unfortuantely that's really the only way to reign him in, once he has Mobile Tactician, he always has a free 4th action that he can use to mitigate strain or harmful conditions without slowing him down at all.  

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Posted (edited)

 

Jarrod - I almost made two posts for Jarrod, but in the end I think many of the tactics you'll use against Jarrod will be the same no matter what. Jarrod is an interesting challenge for the Imperial player. When I saw him debuted I thought he looked like a dumb rip-off of Wolverine. He's actually the most original hero since maybe Murne. With his large number of blocks, J4X-7 to soak up damage, relatively few choices to spend strain on, and attacks that generate a lot of surges, Jarrod requires the Imperial player to play in fundamentally new ways. For this we'll assume a build of Mechanical Master, Mutual Progression, Explosive Reflexes, and the X-8 Upgrade. That's a total of 10XP. If the Rebels win the first HotE mission, add in either Balanced Approach or Forward Momentum. If you are playing a different campaign, expect to see both, or Scout's Loadout. 

With the high number of blocks he can consistently turn out, there's very few units from the Core Box that can do enough base damage to threaten Jarrod. You'll want units that can turn out at least 4 damage at least half the time, or can inflict a special status. The good news is that doesn't limit you as much as you'd think. You can still send in Royal Guards to Stun or Nexu to give him Bleed. Elite Jet Troopers can get there by using Fly By. Using Gammoreans to whack J4X-7 and maybe get some Cleave on Jarrod as well can be expensive, but it does inflict damage he can't block. Heck even Tuskens can technically do that. The really good counters to Jarrod though, are of course in the HotE box itself. While a Gammorean or Royal Guard is distracting Jarrod, you can blast away using an AT-DP, or you can use Shapeshifters. Just try having a Shapeshifter as a Senator, attacking someone to gain an extra Damage or surge token, then going to Street Rat and using Assassin's Blade to give him significant unblockable damage. 

J4X-7 may be a problem in this build. He's strong enough to do some real damage, especially to units that are mainly running interference and blocking line of sight, but depending on the situation, you might be better off ignoring him if you've got a heavy hitting unit primed and ready. If you wounding Jarrod is your primary goal for whatever reason, and if you know you're going to inflict serious damage this round, it might be better to let J4X-7 attack, sacrifice the unit and hit Jarrod. Jarrod can already have as much as 6 Endurance in this build. That's 60% of his health, and with all those blocks you do NOT want to have to bring him down another 6 HP after you worked so hard to get him down to just one or two. If you have a chance to wound - TAKE IT!

Edited by Pollux85

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

Once Jarrod is wounded, J4X-7 can't activate (unless some other special rule specifically says he can)

Droid Mastery is on the wounded side as well (and Mechanical Master allows to activate with another hero whether healthy or wounded). Do you mean withdrawn or incapacitated?

Edited by a1bert

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Any thoughts on combatting Onar with Dont Make Me Hurt You and Hand Cannon? Rolling three red dice, then taking one damage to re-ready the card and do it again is..... suboptimal for me as the IP :)

I definitely see the value of many small attacks adding up, but even wounded he just does insane amount of damage. I think it’s really noticeable as I’m playing Nemesis, and he can melt Bossk or any large high HP figure deployed. :(

 

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8 hours ago, totalnoob said:

Any thoughts on combatting Onar with Dont Make Me Hurt You and Hand Cannon? Rolling three red dice, then taking one damage to re-ready the card and do it again is..... suboptimal for me as the IP :)

I definitely see the value of many small attacks adding up, but even wounded he just does insane amount of damage. I think it’s really noticeable as I’m playing Nemesis, and he can melt Bossk or any large high HP figure deployed. :(

  

Is the other Nemesis Agent Blaise? Unfortunately I see campaigns go through three phases,

1. Rebels struggle to kill Imperials, Imperials struggle to bring troops on the board.

2. Rebels can one-shot weak Imperials, you need to bring troops with some durability. use red deployment cards.

3. Rebels can "melt Bossk or any large high HP figure deployed." Back to grey and hope to swarm.

 

Nemesis deck needs to preplan for stage 3 and have either Jabba or Blaise as one of the two choices.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, totalnoob said:

Any thoughts on combatting Onar with Dont Make Me Hurt You and Hand Cannon? Rolling three red dice, then taking one damage to re-ready the card and do it again is..... suboptimal for me as the IP :)

I definitely see the value of many small attacks adding up, but even wounded he just does insane amount of damage. I think it’s really noticeable as I’m playing Nemesis, and he can melt Bossk or any large high HP figure deployed. :(

 

Do you have Hired Guns? Maybe use them with some Probe Droids or Gamorreans. He'll still be able to one-shot any of those, and the Gamorreans aren't really cost effective by end game, but at least they'll have Reach so he'll have to waste strain or a whole movement point to get to you. Unfortunately, Onar is a great counter to Nemesis. Without knowing more about the specifics of the other Rebels and your class cards, I'd say use his instincts against him. Make him chase Bossk all over the map while you shoot him with other units and run out the clock. Every round he's just moving to try and get close to you is one round he's not actually completing any objectives. 

If all else fails, ask your Rebels if you can switch villains. I'm sure they'd prefer a new challenge over using the same boring tactics week after week to win.

Edited by Pollux85

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3 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

Do you have Hired Guns? Maybe use them with some Probe Droids or Gamorreans. He'll still be able to one-shot any of those, and the Gamorreans aren't really cost effective by end game, but at least they'll have Reach so he'll have to waste strain or a whole movement point to get to you. Unfortunately, Onar is a great counter to Nemesis. Without knowing more about the specifics of the other Rebels and your class cards, I'd say use his instincts against him. Make him chase Bossk all over the map while you shoot him with other units and run out the clock. Every round he's just moving to try and get close to you is one round he's not actually completing any objectives. 

If all else fails, ask your Rebels if you can switch villains. I'm sure they'd prefer a new challenge over using the same boring tactics week after week to win.

I do have Hired Guns, they are a great irritant :). I guess I’m just complaining, because this specific setup which can be acquired fairly early on kind of takes the fun out of nemesis and my play style in general (trying to bring out a unique to muscle the rebels). 

My other nemesis is BT-1, he is ok - but he is a total glass canon and doesn’t have great range so for him to be useful he needs to be fairly close.

Your larger point is probably true, that I’ll need to work more towards swarming him and try and push my nemesis or other villain to the other rebels (Vinto and Shyla).

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On 6/13/2018 at 8:47 PM, totalnoob said:

I do have Hired Guns, they are a great irritant :). I guess I’m just complaining, because this specific setup which can be acquired fairly early on kind of takes the fun out of nemesis and my play style in general (trying to bring out a unique to muscle the rebels). 

My other nemesis is BT-1, he is ok - but he is a total glass canon and doesn’t have great range so for him to be useful he needs to be fairly close.

Your larger point is probably true, that I’ll need to work more towards swarming him and try and push my nemesis or other villain to the other rebels (Vinto and Shyla).

For a second, I thought you were the IP of our group, who had issues of an Onar with a Hand Cannon and Don't make me hurt you one shotting Bossk, who also had Blaise as his other villain, who was playing Nemesis, who was also running BT-1. 

Then you mentioned Shyla and Vinto, and that dispelled the illusion. 

My greatest advice for the fighting that build of Onar is to abuse the advantage of range. Triple 3 doesn't give much range and Onar can only guarantee range by sacrificing Damage. Don't park Bossk next to Onar, use stormtroopers and shoot him from range 4-5. If Onar starts shooting storm troopers, then his Mega Hand Cannon is wasted. If he starts trying to chase Bossk, Punish him by positioning. It also seems that you might be able to get the activation advantage and keep Bossk as your reserve. 

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Maybe it is time to post counter strategies to combinations of heroes, as opposed to single heroes, as in most cases, a hero cannot be taken in vacuum.

 

I go first:

I am facing Fenn, MHD, Shyla and Jyn. Using nemeses. We are about to play Moment of Fate in the Jabba Realm campaign. We are all highly competitive players.

This is an oppressive team: all four heroes have free movement abilities. The synergies are very strong. For example, I try to spread my units, but Shyla uses her whip to bring two units into adjacency, serving them on a silver platter to Fenn.

The following imperial strategyies do not work:

- swarm: between shyla's cleave and Fenn's blast (now at 3 with veteran and underbarrel), swarms die as soon as they are deployed.

- Negative conditions: the med bot has the skill that removes a condition. Jyn has the item that removes a strain or a condition. Between all that, stun and blees just don't stick.

- Field groups with only one or two units: this has been my (successful) plan so far. Villain, nexu, eJet, cavalry, transdos etc. but now things are changing. Damage output from the rebel scum has increased to the point where my poor inquisitor dies in 3 attacks. As we approach stage 3 of the campaign, where the Empire is supposed to swarm with small units, we face unreasonable splash damage from Fenn + Shyla. 

- Wound: this is something Nemeses is good at. Perhaps one of the best imperial decks to make the wound threat real enough to slowdown the rebel scum. Even then, Fenn and Shyla's insane survivability (that evade from her 4xp card is silly) compounded with MHD's healing spam means you don't get to wound them so easily. And if you think (like I did) that the *threat* of wounding is enough to slow them down and get a time win, think again. All four scums have free movememt cards, meaning they can get where the need to, and still murder your troops along the way.

-Delay: Delaying implies that the rebels are either busy healing to avoid a loss through wound, or stopping to kill your units instead of running toward objectives. It doesn't work against a team that compounds free moves and survivability, and still decent damage that messes with your positioning plans.

I can't find a viable strategy once the campaign has moved past the midgame. Perhaps the rebels have found a team combination that breaks the game.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Mr Licorice

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On 9/6/2018 at 7:26 PM, Mr Licorice said:

Maybe it is time to post counter strategies to combinations of heroes, as opposed to single heroes, as in most cases, a hero cannot be taken in vacuum.

 

I go first:

I am facing Fenn, MHD, Shyla and Jyn. Using nemeses. We are about to play Moment of Fate in the Jabba Realm campaign. We are all highly competitive players.

This is an oppressive team: all four heroes have free movement abilities. The synergies are very strong. For example, I try to spread my units, but Shyla uses her whip to bring two units into adjacency, serving them on a silver platter to Fenn.

The following imperial strategyies do not work:

- swarm: between shyla's cleave and Fenn's blast (now at 3 with veteran and underbarrel), swarms die as soon as they are deployed.

- Negative conditions: the med bot has the skill that removes a condition. Jyn has the item that removes a strain or a condition. Between all that, stun and blees just don't stick.

- Field groups with only one or two units: this has been my (successful) plan so far. Villain, nexu, eJet, cavalry, transdos etc. but now things are changing. Damage output from the rebel scum has increased to the point where my poor inquisitor dies in 3 attacks. As we approach stage 3 of the campaign, where the Empire is supposed to swarm with small units, we face unreasonable splash damage from Fenn + Shyla. 

- Wound: this is something Nemeses is good at. Perhaps one of the best imperial decks to make the wound threat real enough to slowdown the rebel scum. Even then, Fenn and Shyla's insane survivability (that evade from her 4xp card is silly) compounded with MHD's healing spam means you don't get to wound them so easily. And if you think (like I did) that the *threat* of wounding is enough to slow them down and get a time win, think again. All four scums have free movememt cards, meaning they can get where the need to, and still murder your troops along the way.

-Delay: Delaying implies that the rebels are either busy healing to avoid a loss through wound, or stopping to kill your units instead of running toward objectives. It doesn't work against a team that compounds free moves and survivability, and still decent damage that messes with your positioning plans.

I can't find a viable strategy once the campaign has moved past the midgame. Perhaps the rebels have found a team combination that breaks the game.

 

Thoughts?

Your Rebels did indeed pick good heroes. Shyla and Fenn are both very well balanced heroes that are not easy to wound, and they synergize well, as you noted. A lot of the units you mentioned are the ones I'd recommend for you. Maybe throw in some Weequay. They'd have a long enough range to hopefully stay away from Shyla's whip and still do damage, and if you can take her out quickly, maybe the others will be easier to manage. Hired Guns are also always a great choice when you want some expendable troops and guaranteed damage. 

For the upcoming mission itself, use the fact that you know the weak points are coming and position your troops accordingly. A well placed officer or Hired Guns could flip 4 of the 5 mission tokens needed in one round. This will hopefully keep Shyla busy with flipping tokens and stop her from using her whip. Maybe there's also some way to use the fact that impassable terrain doesn't block movement, but does still block line of sight so Jyn will be less effective as well. 

Are there any cards that you bought, but are NOT using? Maybe ask the other players if you can swap them out. If they're really competitive, maybe they'll prefer a better challenge?

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5 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

Your Rebels did indeed pick good heroes. Shyla and Fenn are both very well balanced heroes that are not easy to wound, and they synergize well, as you noted. A lot of the units you mentioned are the ones I'd recommend for you. Maybe throw in some Weequay. They'd have a long enough range to hopefully stay away from Shyla's whip and still do damage, and if you can take her out quickly, maybe the others will be easier to manage. Hired Guns are also always a great choice when you want some expendable troops and guaranteed damage. 

For the upcoming mission itself, use the fact that you know the weak points are coming and position your troops accordingly. A well placed officer or Hired Guns could flip 4 of the 5 mission tokens needed in one round. This will hopefully keep Shyla busy with flipping tokens and stop her from using her whip. Maybe there's also some way to use the fact that impassable terrain doesn't block movement, but does still block line of sight so Jyn will be less effective as well. 

Are there any cards that you bought, but are NOT using? Maybe ask the other players if you can swap them out. If they're really competitive, maybe they'll prefer a better challenge?

Thanks @Pollux85 for the comments. My build is optimal: prepare the ambush, the one that grants rerolls after each activation and I'm on the leader. I just bought ring leader (mostly for the move speed) - if a fault there is it would be the hero... I mean "villain" choice: the brave Maul and the esteemed Inquisitor. Perhaps too much melee is redundant and easy magnet for rebel attacks. (One of my players got me to buy Inquisitor, so I had to play him (lol sneaky rebel scum just wanted electrostaff for Shyla))

Hired guns are a liability with Jyn around: she has cheap shot, so she can react, stun, kill, and deny parting shot due to stun. same reason why I did not pick greedo for Scum villain.

How do you get 4-5 token flips with hired guns? I thought imp figures do the flip with a full action and only the rebels get to use move points.

I do plan to field a Rancor for that mission, just for the throw ability... 12 damage, hmmmm.

Edited by Mr Licorice

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2 hours ago, Mr Licorice said:

 

How do you get 4-5 token flips with hired guns? I thought imp figures do the flip with a full action and only the rebels get to use move points.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I do plan to field a Rancor for that mission, just for the throw ability... 12 damage, hmmmm.

 

Ah. I was looking at the map on my phone and missed the wall between those blue deployment points. Still, two out of five ain't bad.

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