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Herowannabe

What if TLT wasn’t in the game?

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So back when TLT came out I remember a lot of people (or at least one or two vocal people) praising it for its role in helping usher an end to the age of Fat Turrets. Now, ironically, it seems to have taken their place, with Fenn+Ghost and Miranda builds point-fortressing left and right. 

So this has me thinking- what if TLT was straight up removed from the game? FFG drops an FAQ tomorrow that says TLTs are no longer allowed. Our first banned card, if you will. What would be the result?

Would it ruin Miranda and/or the Ghost, or would they manage to get by with lesser turrets?

What lists would disappear completely? People talk about 4x TLT Y-Wings, but honestly I haven’t even seen one of those in ages. 

What ships/lists are TLTs keeping down that would rise to the top and take over the meta? Would that be better or worse than what we have now?

I don’t have any strong feelings one way or the other, but I’m curious what everyone thinks. 

Keep it civil. ;)

Edited by Herowannabe

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1 minute ago, FlyingAnchors said:

NO I WILL NOT BE CIVIL IF YOU RUIN MY HWK-290 WITH THE ONLY TURRET THAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT FEEL LIKE I CAN DO SOMETHING WITH THE SHIP BESIDES PASS OUT FOCUS TOKENS!!!

/end rant

I've seen the HWK in a Fenn rebel list in order to boost him to PS12, so you know... there's an additional use besides passing focus.

also death ray is pretty cool but definitely needs TLT

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2 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

NO I WILL NOT BE CIVIL IF YOU RUIN MY HWK-290 WITH THE ONLY TURRET THAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT FEEL LIKE I CAN DO SOMETHING WITH THE SHIP BESIDES PASS OUT FOCUS TOKENS!!!

/end rant

Okay okay okay so what if TLT was “HWK-290 only” then? ;) 

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15 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

NO I WILL NOT BE CIVIL IF YOU RUIN MY HWK-290 WITH THE ONLY TURRET THAT ACTUALLY MAKES IT FEEL LIKE I CAN DO SOMETHING WITH THE SHIP BESIDES PASS OUT FOCUS TOKENS!!!

/end rant

This.

12 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Okay okay okay so what if TLT was “HWK-290 only” then? ;) 

I would be somewhat sad for Y-Wings and Aggressors (though maybe not spammed lists of them), but otherwise fine.

13 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

What’s Death Ray and why does it need TLT?

Unless I am mistaken, that's Rey backed by Jan Ors in a HWK. 5 dice out of Rey's front arc, with 6 at range 1. The TLT is for Jan, so she can push through some damage as well.

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23 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

What’s Death Ray and why does it need TLT?

Rey and Jan Ors, 

basically Jan just gives Rey another dice to throw but keeps up her own consistent and action free damage with TLT. Jan usually has Chewy as crew.

TLT isn't essential but is the best for posing a threat apart from Rey

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8 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Errata TLT to Imperial Only. Problem solved. 

The trouble with that is that numerous packs which contain TLTs become super redundant, and ships like the HWK really do suck without them. My proposed fix is:

TLT (6 points, turret)
Yada yada, yada. If your hull value is 5 or more, you can only equip one additional upgrade card in addition to this card.

Boom, done. HWKs, Aggressors, Attack Shuttles and Y-wings aren't affected, whereas the triumvirate of point fortresses (Ghost/Fenn, Miranda and Nym) are nerfed into oblivion. Most players agree they're NPEs anyway, so no loss there.

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7 minutes ago, Astech said:

TLT (6 points, turret)
Yada yada, yada. If your hull value is 5 or more, you can only equip one additional upgrade card in addition to this card.

Boom, done. HWKs, Aggressors, Attack Shuttles and Y-wings aren't affected, whereas the triumvirate of point fortresses (Ghost/Fenn, Miranda and Nym) are nerfed into oblivion. Most players agree they're NPEs anyway, so no loss there.

Uh, Y-wings got 5 Hull.  

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2 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Uh, Y-wings got 5 Hull.  

They do. But the two main builds are Thugh Life and a stressbot. Thug life only uses the two upgrades, pretty much ever. The stressbot has been eclipsed by the new Ezra version, and numerous other stress-dealing mechanics for some time now. maybe the aces *could* be affected, but they're very rarely played, and never seriously.

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4 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Errata TLT so it has the Attack: (Focus) header

It's a small debuff that allows it to be shut down by bumping and obstacles and makes it harder to combo with repositioning (since you'll need to focus instead of boosting or barrel rolling.)

Would be simply overcome by the co-ordinate action these days.

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5 hours ago, Quadjumper King said:

I've seen the HWK in a Fenn rebel list in order to boost him to PS12, so you know... there's an additional use besides passing focus.

also death ray is pretty cool but definitely needs TLT

I mean Roarks cool and all but I’m a personal big fan of Jan or Kyle flying my Hwk. 

If they hadn’t “fixed” blaster turret I would still be happily playing with that. 

And last time I flew the hwk I did score a Crit on a falcon from a range 1 primary so there not totally dead in the water without TLT, but I do not think it beneficial to nerf TLT into utter uselessness when ships like the Hwk, Y-wing, and TIE aggressor rely on it so much. There are better ways to balance the K-wing/Ghost.

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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5 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Okay okay okay so what if TLT was “HWK-290 only” then? ;) 

I would be okay with this, but I think Thug lyfe and Aggressive negotiations (quad aggressor) would not be. 

Honestly I’m really torn on TLT because outside Miranda and the ghost it’s a solid upgrade card that you get what you pay for. 

Which is why I’d rather see ghost/Miranda’s pilot ability changed rather than TLT. 

If it wasn’t in game we’d probably all be complaining about autoblaster or synced turret.

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6 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

If they're coordinating to Focus, they aren't coordinating to Boost.

Exactly.  It is definitely a soft nerf, which is what TLT needs I think.  It would just force more hard decisions, which is what the game should be about.  Also if the Ghost used or lost its focus token during the combat round it can't use the title to double tap with the TLT later.  It would be less abusive overall without completely killing it.

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