Calling in Favor + Watch Commander

[Mundo Juego 0]

Hello, before the updates was clear that you cannot stole a Watch Commander or any other "attach to you control" attachment. But recently with the new changes the aclaration of this rule was remove.

Most of us still thinking that with a Callin in Favor you can only does a "Let Go" effect, but can someone confirm what happend.

 

Thank you.

[Mirith 1,304]

Calling in Favors will work as normal on Watch Commander or any "Character you control" attachment.  You take control of it before it attaches.

The reason for that clause is so that you don't attach it to your opponents best guy with 3 fate on it, forcing them to always lose honor while using that guy in a battle.

[Mundo Juego 0]

I still asking because weeks ago were a ruling saying the oposite. L5R need a clear rules like others games to all situations are solved same way in all stores.

[Hinomura 848]

Where did you see this other ruling, please? Could you provide a link?

[Mundo Juego 0]

Now is delete, but i saw in fiveringsdb web. 

 

For that here we have questions of this, because when we had for first time the question, que search and find one rule, and now when happend again with new player when we going to recheck we didnt find it.

[Tabris2k 1,106]

I don’t remember any ruling saying that you cannot steal Watch Commander. 

While it’s true that the game constantly check for the legality of the attachment, and the moment an attachment is not attached to a valid target is instantly discarded, this does not happen with Watch Commander and Calling in Favors. It would happen, however, if your opponent somehow took control of the character Watch Commander is attached to, because you’d still control the attachment but not the attached, therefore creating an illegal situation that’ll end up with the discarding of Watch Commander. This happen, for example, with Blackmail, and I suspect that the rule you said you saw is the one in the page of that card, not Calling in Favors. You should check it out.

Also, bear in mind that fiveringsDB is not FFG-owned, so you cannot use it as a rules source in official events, although a lot of its content is based in developers’ rulings. But the official sources for Organized Play are only the Rules Reference Document and the Tournament Regulations.

Como me da la sensación de que no hablas muy bien inglés (por cómo lo escribes) te lo pongo en español por si así lo entiendes mejor (por el nombre de usuario, supongo que tu idioma es el español):

Yo desde luego no recuerdo ninguna regla como la que dices. Es cierto que el juego está constantemente comprobando la legalidad de la validez de un accesorio, y si en algún momento un accesorio está vinculado a algún objetivo ilegal, el accesorio se descarta. Esto no pasa (ni nunca ha pasado) al tomar el control del Comandante de la Guardia. Sí pasa, sin embargo, si tu oponente pasa a controlar el personaje al que está vinculado el Comandante de la Guardia. En dicho caso, como el accesorio lo sigues controlando tú, se crea una situación ilegal que acaba con el descarte del Comandante. Esto pasa, por ejemplo, con Chantaje, y me da que la regla esa que dices que viste en realidad la viste en la página de esa carta, así que deberías comprobarlo. 

Aparte de eso: fiveringsDB no pertenece a FFG, así que, aunque es una ayuda y muchas de sus reglas están sacadas de aclaraciones de los desarrolladores, no son una fuente válida durante eventos oficiales. Sólo la Referencia de Reglas y las Reglas de Torneo son oficiales durante el Juego Organizado. 

[Khudzlin 734]

@Tabris2k Even though fiveringsDB isn't owned by FFG, all rulings you can find on it come from official sources, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it during a tournament (I was a judge at the Paris Grand Kotei).

[Mundo Juego 0]

Thanks for the reply.

The topic can be closed.

 

pd-> si, soy español y cuando me toca escribir con el móvil se suele notar... Gracias por la respuesta.

[Tabris2k 1,106]

6 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

@Tabris2k Even though fiveringsDB isn't owned by FFG, all rulings you can find on it come from official sources, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it during a tournament (I was a judge at the Paris Grand Kotei).

Well, they don’t really come from official sources, strictly speaking. Yes, they are developers rulings from CardgameDB (which is FFg-owned), but they are in no way official until the cards are errata’ed or the RRG is changed. The only valid source as per the Tournament Ruling document is the RRG. 

That being said, I wouldn’t mind a ruling coming from a developer in CardgameDB if I’m playing in OP, but I don’t represent all people. 

[Otakukaiko 0]

Ok, I am from Spain, so, first at all, sorry fo my poor English. I try to explain why I'm not sure we can play  Calling favor or 

Watch Commander text:

Attach to a character you control. Limit 1 per character.
Reaction: After an opponent plays a card during a conflict in which attached character is participating – that player loses 1 honor. (Unlimited.)
 

Calling Favor text:

Action: Dishonor a (friendly) character. Choose an opponent’s attachment – take control of that attachment and attach it to that character, if able. Otherwise, discard the attachment.

Karada district text:

Action: Give an opponent 1 fate. Choose an attachment on a character that player controls – take control of that attachment and attach it to an eligible character you control, if able. Otherwise, discard it

 

Rules about Restrictions:

Play Restrictions and Permissions

Many cards or abilities contain specific instructions pertaining to when or how they may or may not be used, or to specific conditions that must be true in order to use them. In order to use such an ability or to play such a card, all play restrictions must be observed.

Rules about "playing cards"

Initiating Abilities/ Playing Cards
Whenever a player wishes to play a card or initiate a triggered ability, that player first declares his or her intent (and shows the card to be used, if necessary). There are two preliminary confirmations that must be made before the process may begin. These are:
1. Check play restrictions and verify the existence of eligible targets: can the card be played, or the ability initiated, at this time? If the play restrictions are not met, or there are no eligible targets for the ability, the process cannot proceed.

 

So, If I try to play a card, or initiate Ability, The first preliminary confirmation is check any restriction, or if exist a eligible target, it's before I play the card, so, no effect for the card at this moment, I didn't take the control of the attachment.

And, at this point, I check restriction from "Watch commander" and the friendly personality is not a valid target and I cannot attach the card to my personality, so, I need to take the other option "Otherwise, discard the attachment"

 

 

[sharrrp 444]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:33 PM, Otakukaiko said:

Watch Commander text:

Attach to a character you control. Limit 1 per character.
Reaction: After an opponent plays a card during a conflict in which attached character is participating – that player loses 1 honor. (Unlimited.)
 

Calling Favor text:

Action: Dishonor a (friendly) character. Choose an opponent’s attachment – take control of that attachment and attach it to that character, if able. Otherwise, discard the attachment.

Karada district text:

Action: Give an opponent 1 fate. Choose an attachment on a character that player controls – take control of that attachment and attach it to an eligible character you control, if able. Otherwise, discard it

 

Rules about Restrictions:

Play Restrictions and Permissions

Many cards or abilities contain specific instructions pertaining to when or how they may or may not be used, or to specific conditions that must be true in order to use them. In order to use such an ability or to play such a card, all play restrictions must be observed.

Rules about "playing cards"

Initiating Abilities/ Playing Cards
Whenever a player wishes to play a card or initiate a triggered ability, that player first declares his or her intent (and shows the card to be used, if necessary). There are two preliminary confirmations that must be made before the process may begin. These are:
1. Check play restrictions and verify the existence of eligible targets: can the card be played, or the ability initiated, at this time? If the play restrictions are not met, or there are no eligible targets for the ability, the process cannot proceed.

You can absolutely steal a Watch Commander with Calling in Favors. You are not PLAYING watch commander so checking it's restrictions before initiating doesn't apply.  You're playing Calling in Favors, so the only things you need are a friendly character and an unfriendly attachment.

Then Favors does its thing which turns watch commander friendly and moves it to your character and at no time is there a legal attachment issue.

[Tabris2k 1,106]

You play Calling in Favors, you check restrictions:

Are there any friendly characters that can be dishonored? If yes, proceed. 

Are there any opponent’s attachments that can be chosen? If yes, proceed. 

The effect is then resolved: you take control of the attachement. 

Are you able to attach it to the friendly dishonored character? Then attach it. Are you not? Then discard it.