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Yodas Mum

How to (easily) save the game

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Introduce a separate scoring category that is a degree of difficulty like they do in ice skating, diving, and gymnastics.  You get a modifier for bringing lists outside of meta archetypes that you factor into your MOV.  

Not serious about this.  But it would be funny to see.

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Not a nerf herder fan. I think changing the way the tourney scene is scored would make a big difference. The run out the clock strategy is not fun and I would suggest counting damaged ships differently to account for this. 

In terms of the Ghost, if you were to 'nerf' it I'd suggest forcing the docked shuttle to fire with one of its own weapons instead of the Ghost's weapons - thus with the attack shuttle it would need to equip its own TLT to fire a TLT on the second shot. 

Other builds don't need nerf herding imo.

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1 hour ago, D34d guru said:

Good luck in other games out there!!!!!...... your crying won't be missed....

watch the door!!!

Even your post is useful. By trying to figure out if you are an old troll with a new account or a new troll i found this thread that i missed out:

I really wish FFG would take some cues from other miniature games for a 2.0 version.

which pretty muchs try to solve the same problems by a different approach.

Thanks.

 

 

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I was unaware the game needed saving.

If you aren’t having fun, figure out why and do something about it. Whether it be a refusal to go to tournaments, or playing HotAC, or maybe just finding a different game for you, that’s all on you. It is ok to not like a game and to leave. I won’t mock you for it if that’s your reasoning. I also won’t kick you out forcefully because you have a different opinion.

But I and many others are still enjoying 100/6 games and events. And I am still enjoying my epic, scenarios on occasion, HotAC, etc. I have no qualms with the meta because it’s always changing... don’t like it big deal it’ll be different in another wave.

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I “think” upgrade slots are supposed to be accounted for in the cost of a ship.  

The issue cannot be solved by blanket limits on # of cards. 

Nothing is good or bad in this game...except relative to its cost. If rookie T-65s cost 15 pts each, they would shift from everybodies whipping boy to OP. 

The REAL fix should be a PDF of adjusted costs to be used in official events.  It is waaaay easier for players to keep track of point cost changes over additions or deletions to pilots and upgrades.  That said, some card amendment may still be needed from time to time, but much less frequently.

This also sets up a system for ongoing fixes. A 3-4 card limit begs for the next broken 3-4 card combo. 

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Change AC to once per turn. That is a pretty simple fix that hurts the ghost's damage a lot. Now it has to hope for dice rolls. It also doesn't really hurt anything else either that i can think of.

Edited by Oberron

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Ive always wanted to add:

"Upgrades are usable only once per round."

Instead of:

"Once per trigger."

Pilot abilities can still be unlimited uses per round.

This fixes a LOT of broken stuff, restoring some core game mechanic stengths, prevents a lot of FUTURE abuse that play-testers might miss, and only hurts a small number of upgrades.

**** gets broke when you can use it more than once per round. Most of the abusable combos and upgrades revolved around this. I can make a nice long list if anyone is interested, haha.

Edited by phild0

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13 hours ago, phild0 said:

Ive always wanted to add:

"Upgrades are usable only once per round."

Instead of:

"Once per trigger."

Pilot abilities can still be unlimited uses per round.

This fixes a LOT of broken stuff, restoring some core game mechanic stengths, prevents a lot of FUTURE abuse that play-testers might miss, and only hurts a small number of upgrades.

**** gets broke when you can use it more than once per round. Most of the abusable combos and upgrades revolved around this. I can make a nice long list if anyone is interested, haha.

I actually am interested in seeing that list...

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On 2/25/2018 at 6:57 AM, Yodas Mum said:

maximum copys of any card: 2     (hmmm....maybe 1)

I don't think thats a good idea either.

 

fun squads, not necessarily meta defining, but can still be workable with good skill:

Baby Blues (4x T70's with Flight Assist or R2 Astro, Integrated)

Crack Swarm

3x GSP snap/juke w/Jess Pava and Swarm leader

7 Z95 w/tracers and harpoons

3x Nu QD

and thats just thinking for a few seconds, I'm sure I could come up with a few more.

 

maybe certain cards should be limited to 2, but not all.

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4 hours ago, Wiredin said:

I don't think thats a good idea either.

 

fun squads, not necessarily meta defining, but can still be workable with good skill:

Baby Blues (4x T70's with Flight Assist or R2 Astro, Integrated)

Crack Swarm

3x GSP snap/juke w/Jess Pava and Swarm leader

7 Z95 w/tracers and harpoons

3x Nu QD

and thats just thinking for a few seconds, I'm sure I could come up with a few more.

 

maybe certain cards should be limited to 2, but not all.

The one thing in common of the lists that you mention is that they at least contain 4 Ships. There are no Uber-point-fortress-can-do-every-trick-Bomb-coordinate-without-actions-required-ships in it. When i recall correctly there are also no ships with more than 4 Upgrades. Which was the initally thougt of this thread.

So i a agree that limiting only some cards would be the better answer.  

 

 

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On 2/24/2018 at 4:32 PM, Yodas Mum said:

Fenn/lothal is broken. 

If nerfed it will be nymranda bomb b&llsh!t all over again.

If nerfed it will be some other ridiculous unfun combo.

The game has completly lost its balance, and the brilliant dogfight mechanic that drew 

so many into the game is spoiled through unlimited cardcombos even a much more 

serious gametesting than the existing cant realistically avoid.

I spend much more time thinking how to unbrake the weekly broken-meta-tier-s-squad,

than playing and much more important enjoing the game itself.

This has much to do with pretty much knowing the broken squad when I see it.

That sucks...........hard.

I am tired of it.

 

Heres my simple gamechange, that in my humble opinion unbrakes the worst combos all at once.

The deeper problem is innherent and cant be solved by nerfing single cards.

Change basic rules to: 

No ship can have more than 4 (maybe 3) upgrades.

Opinions?

 

 

FFG...please let me play again.

Thank you.

Save the game. I’m itchy from Saturday morning until Thursday night when I get to fly again. I got ants all over me!!!

Save the game? Come on man. 

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it wasnt my intention but i really start to enjoy the deep and profound discussion culture this thread develops.

My Top 5 arguments so far:

5. That’s not a very good idea..

4. Terrible idea. Just awful.

3. forum fail

2. what a ******* stupid idea

but the still unconquested Number 1 is.........

"Good luck in other games out there!!!!!...... your crying won't be missed....watch the door!!!"

What makes this argument the winner and much superior over its competitors is that it forces the recipient to remember that their are allways 3 possible solutions to every problem in life:

change, leave, accept.

By completely opposing the solution of change and strongly suggesting the option leave, actually this is a subtle recommendation for acceptance. 

 

 

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I could potentially see it work.  I would argue that it would work better in a V2.0 so you can customize the number of upgrades per ship.  But even in a V1.0 of the game, you could easily say "Small based ships cannot equip more than 3 upgrades with a cost of 1 or higher.  Large based ships cannot equip more than 4 upgrades with a cost of 1 or higher."  This means that the title fixes don't count towards your limit.  It barely restricts things, but does enough to pretty much prevent everything that anyone's complained about in the past two years.

Ghost/Fenn (and Kanan/Biggs for that matter) relies upon 5 upgrades on the Ghost (plus the 0 cost title).  They would have to sacrifice something, and the synergy is drastically reduced when they have to give up any one thing.

Dengaroo had 6 upgrades on Dengar, and while you could drop GS and CM without losing the core of the list, you do lose a bunch of the "oh S$(&" protection when you get into a bad spot.  The list wouldn't be anywhere near as tanky, so it wouldn't be top tier.

JM15k had 2 torps, droid, deadeye (and GC).  It wouldn't actually be affected by this limit.  

Any form of Assaj normally has at least and EPT, Latts, EU, and at least 1 Illicit.  They wouldn't be able to stock up on both illicits or the title to put her over the top.

Fat Han would have never happened, he always had an EPT, EU, 2 crew, and the title.  He would have to give something up - if he gives up the title he can no longer ensure the triple evade every turn that made him so fat.  If he gives up the EU, he can't arc dodge early game to get into the end game, and if he gives up the EPT, he no longer has reliable damage.  

As for small based ships:

Miranda would arguably be the most affected.  TLT is almost a given on her, and then she can either decide Sabine + 1 bomb, bomb+EM, missile+EM, or crew + something.  It'd almost be like she can be a heavy bomber, a heavy ordnance platform, or a TLT platform, but can no longer do everything all the time.

Same thing for Nym.  

Defenders, Guri, Fel, Fenn would all be unaffected.

Poe would have a droid, EPT, and Autothrusters... Though you might start seeing him with IA and then a tech instead.  It'd be a choice.

Whisper would have VI, ACD, FCS - no crew to give her gunner or rebel captive... that or sacrifice the FCS for the crew.  

Actually, I really kinda like the overall idea.  If given a V2.0 it could be further exploited with individual ships - or even titles - that would allow for more cards to be equipped.

 

Now, with all of that said, I don't know if it would actually resolve the game as far as getting back to the core of dogfighting or not, but I'm pretty sure it would force more user decisions, which almost always makes the game better.  It would also help restrict the play space for testing required, which in turn would help minimize the number of broken combo undiscovered during testing.  

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I disagree with the OP that there is anything major wrong with the current meta.

Regional lists right now are all over the place. Yesterday (in Seattle) I saw scum and imperial lists do well. I saw lists without harpoon missiles go 5-1 in swiss. I saw multiple lists with proton bombs. I saw multiple lists with three B/SF-17s. Blair's Z swarm. Double IG-88s. Three Tie Punishers in a list. Palp aces going 5-1. FIVE tie bombers in a list.

This was a major regional with 154 entrants. It was awesome to see the diversity in lists.

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