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56 minutes ago, Thrindal said:

Generally I have found the Gozanti is a weak link in the list because the token efficiency just isn't there.  The squads are really just a defensive screen so activating them is really only necessary once or twice, after that the Gozanti is pretty useless and is generally running for the hills.  Comms Net makes it a little better but this list rarely leaves you wanting on tokens.

This might be crazy, but Repair Crews works off of tokens, doesn't it? The range restriction is still pretty limiting though.

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Hmmmm.... well I'm convinced enough to take some form of a Tarkin list to a tournament tomorrow.  I'll letcha know how it goes!

That said I'm torn on Demo.  Obviously it's an amazing ship and the black dice range will really help out a fleet otherwise composed of long range snipers.  But Demo often wants a large bid, or more activations.  It also doesn't gain much from Tarkin.  Demo wants to nav just about every turn anyway.  Especially at high speeds, that extra yaw is incredibly important when it comes to being in the right place.  I think Tarkin gets a lot more leverage out of the Arq or maybe a Victory.

I'm running a Tarkin fleet in a CC campaign and I agree so far the gozanti doesn't feel like it gains a lot from Tarkin himself.  That said it does give you an easy red objective choice, and an extra activation.  And those double arc concentrate fire gozer shots are nothing to sneeze at!  But yes, I can achieve even higher levels of special snowflakeness by not fielding any flotillas!

I'm also really torn on QBTs.  I think they're very limiting to both ISDs and Kittens.  Being able to jump up to speed 3 (and imitation speed 4) can be really powerful.  

Anyway I've got two versions I'm playing with right now.  Take a look:

Name: Tarkin Tourney Fleet?
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Dangerous Territory

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Spinal Armament (9)
• Sovereign (4)
= 180 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 73 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 73 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
= 23 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Soontir Fel (18)
= 51 Points

Total Points: 400

And....

Name: Tarkin mk2
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: Station Assault
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Spinal Armament (9)
• Sovereign (4)
= 180 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• External Racks (3)
= 84 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 74 Points

Squadrons:
• Captain Jonus (16)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Valen Rudor (13)
= 61 Points

Total Points: 399

So I'm torn on objectives still.  Dangerous Territory is one I enjoy but it never actually seems to get me as many points as I'd like.  Especially vs flotilla fleets.  Many folks will happily let their flot eat one damage to pick up a token without risking their real ships.  I could try minefields perhaps?  Solar Corona is the obvious choice for blues but it kinda gives them a free "out" for other objectives.  

I am wondering about the possibility of dropping the gunnery team to save on points and trying to force AG with something like minefields and hyperspace.  But it still might never get picked.  The Vic with the Liaison i something I really enjoy with Tarkin, being effectively a command 1 ship all of a sudden.  Queue up nothing but CF commands by turn 2 and then use your free tokens (you will have sooooo many tokens) to change to nav or repair if needed.

I wish there was a way to cram even more ships in here, but I'd feel really crippled going in without any squads.  Jonus, especially with IF! and TRCs gives you a hilarious amount of control over your dice.  Even if the Arq rolls 3 blanks you can turn that into 3 damage and an accuracy.

Edited by duck_bird

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1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Any thoughts on replacing the Gozanti cruiser with an assault? It can still command the squads when needed, and IF! gives you a guaranteed damage every round.  You can switch to CF commands after the squads go down.

I tried the Assault cruiser in testing on Vassal, I just didn't find it effective and usually got itself blown to pieces.  But that could just be me, with more practice it might work.

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34 minutes ago, Villakarvarousku said:

This might be crazy, but Repair Crews works off of tokens, doesn't it? The range restriction is still pretty limiting though.

Yeah range on repair crews makes it very difficult to pull off.

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43 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Hmmmm.... well I'm convinced enough to take some form of a Tarkin list to a tournament tomorrow.  I'll letcha know how it goes!

That said I'm torn on Demo.  Obviously it's an amazing ship and the black dice range will really help out a fleet otherwise composed of long range snipers.  But Demo often wants a large bid, or more activations.  It also doesn't gain much from Tarkin.  Demo wants to nav just about every turn anyway.  Especially at high speeds, that extra yaw is incredibly important when it comes to being in the right place.  I think Tarkin gets a lot more leverage out of the Arq or maybe a Victory.

I'm running a Tarkin fleet in a CC campaign and I agree so far the gozanti doesn't feel like it gains a lot from Tarkin himself.  That said it does give you an easy red objective choice, and an extra activation.  And those double arc concentrate fire gozer shots are nothing to sneeze at!  But yes, I can achieve even higher levels of special snowflakeness by not fielding any flotillas!

I'm also really torn on QBTs.  I think they're very limiting to both ISDs and Kittens.  Being able to jump up to speed 3 (and imitation speed 4) can be really powerful. 

I tried a variation of the original list (I replaced Mauler with EWS on both Arq) on Vassal and I feel it is pretty solid for competitive play.

My thoughts:

I wouldn't replace Arq with Demo for the reasons you mentioned (as well as the fact that with managing activations one can avoid being in short range (or to force a opponent's ship to be in a kill box of multiple long range arcs first) most of the time.

QBT is a very good addition to the list for both ISD and Arqs as they either add more reliable blue dice or force opponent to slow down (which is good for long range fleets).

Comms Net Gozanti is still useful to stack up tokens on ISD.

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I ran the first Tarkin list (w/ 2 Arquitens) last week. I was pretty happy with it.

Intensify Firepower truly changes the quality of firepower.

My opponent was running a Raddus bomb w/ a MC75. Once it hit the table, I managed to concentrate it down with the side dice of the ISD combined with the Arquitens fire. It was brutal. 

Edited by Democratus

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24 minutes ago, PT106 said:

QBT is a very good addition to the list for both ISD and Arqs as they either add more reliable blue dice or force opponent to slow down (which is good for long range fleets).

Comms Net Gozanti is still useful to stack up tokens on ISD.

Hmmm... maybe I'll give 'em another look.  They're certainly nice and cheap.  I guess my fear is that simply by having them you encourage yourself to slow roll, making you more predictable and limiting your options.  

Especially an Arq with ET cruising at speed 3 is actually a really sneaky ship.  I'm thinking I put the Vic in there as an anchor and to have a ship delighted to sit on the station in Contested Outpost, and then the ISD and Arq can hit the gas if I'm up against an MSU swarm fleet.

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6 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Hmmm... maybe I'll give 'em another look.  They're certainly nice and cheap.  I guess my fear is that simply by having them you encourage yourself to slow roll, making you more predictable and limiting your options.  

Especially an Arq with ET cruising at speed 3 is actually a really sneaky ship.  I'm thinking I put the Vic in there as an anchor and to have a ship delighted to sit on the station in Contested Outpost, and then the ISD and Arq can hit the gas if I'm up against an MSU swarm fleet.

The trick is that Arq effective speed is 1 higher due to constant ET therefore QBT is a nice addition there (and 3 red + 2 blue is better than 4 or 5 reds). I also thought about throwing in Vic1 there, however I feel it is going to be more expensive and less mobile, so wouldn't really add much there (given the presence of ISD in the list)

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Why use QBT over DTT/TRC? When you’ll statistically roll a blank, consistency is pretty much the same as adding a die, with no speed check. The only plus I can see is the chance at an accuracy (with a high damage roll...)

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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25 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Why use QBT over DTT/TRC? When you’ll statistically roll a blank, consistency is pretty much the same as adding a die, with no speed check. The only plus I can see is the chance at an accuracy (with a high damage roll...)

Well Intensify Firepower! helps with the blank mitigation better than DTT and TRC starts to lose value because you won't use IF! nearly as much.  If you can keep those blue dice rolling they never have a bad result.  That said in my Demo version of the list where the Arc had TRC it ripped stuff to shreads mostly because my opponent focused on Demo and the ISD so the Arquitens just kept lining up shots and Concentrating fire, but even then I didn't need IF! nearly as much so I found having both a bit redundant.

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Give the gozo repair crew so it can remove a damage card for each repair token. From itself is alredy useful to save its points or block enemies.

Edit: oh there is a second page oops

Edited by Xeletor

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2 hours ago, PT106 said:

I tried a variation of the original list (I replaced Mauler with EWS on both Arq) on Vassal and I feel it is pretty solid for competitive play.

My thoughts:

I wouldn't replace Arq with Demo for the reasons you mentioned (as well as the fact that with managing activations one can avoid being in short range (or to force a opponent's ship to be in a kill box of multiple long range arcs first) most of the time.

QBT is a very good addition to the list for both ISD and Arqs as they either add more reliable blue dice or force opponent to slow down (which is good for long range fleets).

Comms Net Gozanti is still useful to stack up tokens on ISD.

I generally agree with this, after more thought I do think I prefer the Dual Arquitens over Demo.  Mauler isn't the greatest squad in the list, I will have to try out EWS in this list.  I played with it in another list and it was quite effective.

Edited by Thrindal

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There are a fair number of players that I have played that discount and underestimate the Arquitens.  It isn't an overly intimidating ship, especially alongside an ISD but if played well its long range punch is just about as good as an ISD at long range and often once they figure that out the Arquitens are flanking and outside their most effective arcs and chasing them down becomes really difficult with Nav Tokens and Engine Techs every turn.  The trick is keeping them at long range but again Engine Techs makes that a lot easier to do.

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3 hours ago, duck_bird said:

Hmmmm.... well I'm convinced enough to take some form of a Tarkin list to a tournament tomorrow.  I'll letcha know how it goes!

That said I'm torn on Demo.  Obviously it's an amazing ship and the black dice range will really help out a fleet otherwise composed of long range snipers.  But Demo often wants a large bid, or more activations.  It also doesn't gain much from Tarkin.  Demo wants to nav just about every turn anyway.  Especially at high speeds, that extra yaw is incredibly important when it comes to being in the right place.  I think Tarkin gets a lot more leverage out of the Arq or maybe a Victory.

Both lists are interesting, I wouldn't discount X17 on the ISD though, if you can manage an accuracy to take out a brace it pushes a lot of damage through, it also can't be countered by ECM.  I am not sure how much the SFO helps the Arquitens either, I am pretty much CF till death.  The Nav Tokens make Nav commands pretty much unnecessary so the only thing you would use SFO for is Engineering and is that Engineering command really going to save it that often?  I would almost always want that extra attack dice.

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1 hour ago, Xeletor said:

Give the gozo repair crew so it can remove a damage card for each repair token. From itself is alredy useful to save its points or block enemies.

 

A Assault Gozanti with Repair Crews combined with a Lambda can activate two squadrons, repair a damage card with the Tarkin Token and do a garantued damage at long range with Intensify Firepower! 

Now thats some crazy multitasking.

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Alright, I think I'll run this.

Name: Tarkin mk2
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: Station Assault
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Intel Sweep

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Sovereign (4)
= 177 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• External Racks (3)
= 84 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 72 Points

Squadrons:
• Lambda Shuttle (15)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Soontir Fel (18)
= 66 Points

Total Points: 399

Wish me luck lmao.  I'll letcha know how it goes!

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So I ended up running:

Assault: Station Assault
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Intel Sweep

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Spinal Armament (9)
• XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
• Sovereign (4)
= 185 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 72 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 76 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Soontir Fel (18)
• Lambda Shuttle (15)
= 66 Points

Total Points: 399

Alright so I ended up changing the list a bit.  I played my CC game the day before and fell in love with Spinals and needed them in my life again.  So I dropped a Vic for an Arq.  
 
Game1: Vs a Raddus fleet with 4 hammerheads, landomonition, and a mc75 ordnance.  He picked my contested outpost - ended up a 60-60 wash on objective tokens.  He flew admo straight at my ISD at speed 4.  Dropped the mc75 on my face turn 2.  Absolutely brutal.  Sovereign went down but I managed to kill 3 hammerheads.  Lost by 65 points for I think a 4-7.
 
Game2: Vs another Raddus fleet with MC75, MC30, Yavaris, and a flotilla.  This time Raddus was on the 75, so it was the 30 dropping in.  He chose my station assault.  Sovereign's front arc put the fear of the Emperor in the dirty rebels and they skirted the edges.  We didn't start shooting each other until turn 4.  I won the squad war, (really liked this squad ball), killing all his squads but losing 2 of Howl and Fel in the process.  Cymoon popped Yav and he killed one of the stations.  Won this one 7-4.
 
Game3:  Vs Thrawn double Cymoons.  This wasn't a great example game.  My opponent was very young and didn't seem too interested in the match.
 
So! Notes: 
  • Definitely should have gone for Capture the VIP instead of Contested Outpost.  Blitz fleets will always steal that from me.  
  • Need an answer for Raddus.  Getting trapped between Admo and  the MC75 was nuts.  
  • My small squad ball was completely wasted against the no-squad first opponent, did well against the medium-squad 2nd game, and annihilated the light-squad 3rd opponent.  I do not know if it would be enough to deter Sloane, and the Arqs aren't exactly going to chip in with their 1 blue flak.
  • The real VIP of this list is Intensify Firepower! The Arqs are decent. Tarkin is decent.  While being able to CF the arqs was nice, I honestly would have preferred to just nav every turn and use IF! to fix their dice and go for double-arcs.  Really it was IF! that made the Arqs decent.  Not their tarkin tokens or CF dials.
  • The Cymoon front arc is disgusting.  Popped a hammerhead at long range.  Tore 2 other ISDs to pieces.
  • The Arqs using ET every turn felt pretty good.  That said... I did often wishing I had an extra yaw to use to help maneuver.  I feel like Tarkin didn't actually do a lot for them.  I could have used Wulff and a cheaper admiral and had a similar experience.  When I compare their damage output to a TRC90 they ended up feeling pretty overpriced versus what is objectively a MUCH more maneuverable ship and much easier to fly.  

So I dunno.  It was a fun fleet.  IF! is incredibly strong.  But I think I could get the same effect with Ozzel or Jerry and just use nav commands on the Arqs.

Edited by duck_bird

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13 hours ago, duck_bird said:

So I dunno.  It was a fun fleet.  IF! is incredibly strong.  But I think I could get the same effect with Ozzel or Jerry and just use nav commands on the Arqs.

You could go with Nav Team instead of ET if the yaw is more important.  I personally find C.F. on the Arquitens really help but that is what I like about this game, everyone has different things that work for them.  I have friends ask if I'll make a list for them, I always say you need to make something that works for you, not something that works for me.

What I like about my Tarkin List is I almost never forget to use any ability or upgrade.  Other lists I make I often have one or two upgrades I either forget to use, or just don't need to use.  For me, my Tarkin List is efficient and my points spent to value ratio is really high.  I don't care what your list is if you can do that, you will have success.

Thanks for your breakdown!

Edited by Thrindal

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I’m agree with Thrindal, the good thing about et tarkin is the 4 clicks giving a Lot of flexibility without suffering damage (jerry) and with out losing firepower ozzel. I hope to try soon this fleet, Thrindal you open my eyes! ?

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22 hours ago, Sharego said:

I’m agree with Thrindal, the good thing about et tarkin is the 4 clicks giving a Lot of flexibility without suffering damage (jerry) and with out losing firepower ozzel. I hope to try soon this fleet, Thrindal you open my eyes! ?

The other benefit is going speed 2 while still being able to trigger QBTs against any other ships going speed 2+.

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On 2/23/2018 at 1:20 PM, duck_bird said:

Alright, I think I'll run this.

Name: Tarkin mk2
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: Station Assault
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Intel Sweep

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Sovereign (4)
= 177 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• External Racks (3)
= 84 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 72 Points

Squadrons:
• Lambda Shuttle (15)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Soontir Fel (18)
= 66 Points

Total Points: 399

Wish me luck lmao.  I'll letcha know how it goes!

why soontir and not whisper? I know counter and howl but with as few squadrons I feel like howl isn't doing "that" much. 

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15 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

why soontir and not whisper? I know counter and howl but with as few squadrons I feel like howl isn't doing "that" much. 

My answer to the question was “two more points” until I realized Howl would only be for Ree then and is replaceable ?

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23 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

My answer to the question was “two more points” until I realized Howl would only be for Ree then and is replaceable ?

is whisper more expensive? Your point is 100% valid if so, I was thinking whisper was cheaper. I just don't see howl as super important when she's only impacting 2 squadrons. 

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