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robguyday

Question about special usage

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Kirbingo on TTS and I had a disagreement on the rules for special chaining.

 

in the pool he has yoda's two dice, and kanan 's 1 dice.

 

so he has a force speed on a special, Yoda dice #1 on disrupt, Yoda dice #2 on 2Focus, and Kanan dice on 1 resource.

 

Sirbingo tried to use Force Speed Special to get two actions, then Double focus to yodas other dice a special then Kanan to a 1ranged. Then he plays force misdirection. He removes my ranged. Then he says it's still his turn and he can resolve yodas other dice which is now a special.

 

i disagree, but he is adamant. Who is correct?

Edited by robguyday

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Yup, he messed up. The only way it would have worked is if he had another Kanan die and used Kanan' s ability(which isn't an action) to focus his other die instead of using Yoda's focus, but then he'd still have to use the focus in the end to change his other die.

Which as an aside, why did he have only 1 kanan die? At 23 points, wth are you doing? 26 points makes more sense cause then you can run a 3 point plot at least. Or was he also running Jar Jar or Ezra? Did you remove a Kanan die? I feel like we are missing something in this scenario. But assuming you said is correct, yes he's wrong.

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He played Ezra, eYoda, Kanan.

 

i was playing eBala, eGreedo, Nightsister.

 

He went first that turn, he had a Yoda with a force speed and an ancient lightsaber on him. He rolled into Force Speed: Special, Ancient lightsaber: Resource, Yoda dice were disrupt and 2Foci. Ezra was dead, I had rolled out Bala and had 1 dice with ranged. He rolled out kanan and rolled 1 resource. I rolled Greedo and rolled 2 indirect and blank. 

 

Then he tried to take 3 actions with force speed. Two other players joined us, 1 agreed with me(and the two people who replied to this post) and the other didn't know. 

Edited by robguyday

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Same issue as the other Force Speed/Yoda post.  

His first action was resolve Force Speed special (+2 actions)

Second action was to resolve dice (focus).  Turns Yoda2 to Special and Kanan to 1 ranged.

Third action is to play Force Misdirection.

He's used his 3 actions that are available to him.  His first action must be fully resolved before taking the second action, so it ends when he declares his next action as to resolve dice.  Any specials left in his pool (or that end up there somehow later in the turn) must be resolved under a future action.

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Yup similar to the other yoda thread.

I wish FFG would put out a correct order of events on force speed. Its...an enigma. Some people treat it as basically double Ambush, others as the die special of "do 2 actions" then go back into special resolving (which is what i think Kirbingo was doing, i play it that way since the Force Speed seems like its actual special is 2 actions, not effectively ambushx2)

This was technically a thing before but until Yoda popped up (and to a lesser extent, Sabine) it wasnt that common of an issue. I've been seeing this alot lately. FFG, help! Flow chart plz!

Edited by Vineheart01

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This hasn't been a thing for a year now ever since Lukas explained how actions never enter the queue and must be fully resolved before moving on to another action. Force speed is not special in any way when it creates its two actions, besides the pun,..

So yeah, it has been explained by FFG. It still confuses people and just one of those things about this game that doesn't follow right with some people, especially if they played magic.

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17 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Yup similar to the other yoda thread.

I wish FFG would put out a correct order of events on force speed. Its...an enigma. Some people treat it as basically double Ambush, others as the die special of "do 2 actions" then go back into special resolving (which is what i think Kirbingo was doing, i play it that way since the Force Speed seems like its actual special is 2 actions, not effectively ambushx2)

This was technically a thing before but until Yoda popped up (and to a lesser extent, Sabine) it wasnt that common of an issue. I've been seeing this alot lately. FFG, help! Flow chart plz!

Seeing the other thread on this, now I see why people are getting confused over the issue.  And it's because of the two things that are most difficult for players to grasp.  First it's the queue itself, and the difference between an effect resolving and when the thing that the effect creates happens.  But second it's confusing an action with effects that allow you to do action-like things.  This is why using the correct terms at all times is really crucial to understanding how Destiny works when things really start to bog down.  

The rule that you must fully resolve one effect before moving on to the next do suggest that you take the 2x Force Speed Actions right when you resolve the die.  And but for the rules on how additional actions function, that approach would be correct.  It would also be more prone to making mistakes, I think.  But how it works is that when you resolve the Force Speed die, it creates up to 2 additional actions.  Once those actions are created, Force Speed has fully resolved.  Force Speed does not wait in limbo until you take those two actions...which is what would be happening under the incorrect approach.  It creates the actions, then goes to the discard, while the actions wait their turn to be taken per the rules in the RRG.

I strongly recommend anyone confused about this look at the I Rebel discussion on how the infinite look with the card Rebel works, because that really breaks the queue down in detail and shows the difference between an effect entering the queue, when it resolves, and when it is finished resolving, and when the thing it creates happens.  

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Yup thats precisely my thought pattern.

Every other special gets resolved before you touch the other die, hence special chaining is even a thing. But Force Speed is the only one that actively mentions Actions (least that i can think of) and not specific effects.

Thats why ive always resolved the 2 actions before touching other specials. I dont like doing it that way so im more than happy to be told that was wrong lol

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27 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Yup thats precisely my thought pattern.

Every other special gets resolved before you touch the other die, hence special chaining is even a thing. But Force Speed is the only one that actively mentions Actions (least that i can think of) and not specific effects.

Thats why ive always resolved the 2 actions before touching other specials. I dont like doing it that way so im more than happy to be told that was wrong lol

Practically, it seems to be more prone to making mistakes.  A lot could happen in those 2 actions, and it might be a minute or more before you get back to resolving your other specials...if you even remember that's what you were doing!  

The way the RRG breaks actions out makes it less prone to such mistakes, but it still gets complicated when you have Force Speed on Rey1 and play Ambush weapons on her.  My wife plays this deck, and I've gotten into the habit of stating out loud how many actions she has remaining whenever she takes an action, and she often has 3 stacked up. 

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It's gotten so bad at times that I have thought about getting special tokens out to represent additional actions, and who gets to take them.  We could line them up as a visual reminder of how many are left.  

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This is one of those janky things about this game. There is the effect that creates actions and then the actions themselves. Two different things that a lot of people don't realize are different.

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