Deflection vs IG-88

[macmastermind 203]

Is the choice of dice by IG done during the declaration of the attack?  If so, I could use 'Deflection' to add -2 to the accuracy of the results (since most folks do the math to maximize Iggy's damage).

What I don't want is to show the card and then opponent just chooses a longer die...

EDIT for wording:   Deflection:  'Use when an attack targeting you is declared.  Apply -2 accuracy to the attack results.  (other stuff that doesn't matter in this context)'

Edited February 21, 2018 by macmastermind

[Chabuda 2]

I believe deflection would be added to step 4 of the attack. Which would mean he would've already rolled and rerolled dice and you would know what the results would be, barring cards played. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

EDIT - Disregard, just read the card. It says when the target is declared, so I would imagine it would go by initiative. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Chabuda

[macmastermind 203]

More specifically it says:  'Use when an attack targeting you is declared.'  Meaning when an attack is declared.  So, I was hoping the dice had to be decided at the time of the declaration, or is all that happens for the declaration step is opponent points at IG, then to Vader, then we're past the window...

[DTDanix 845]

From the Rules Reference Guide:
 An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used immediately before step 2 of the attack.

So that seems like where you would also decide your dice pool for IG-88.

Step 1 is declare attack.

From this, it isn't quite clear whether "Decide dice pool" is some intermediate step 1.5, or if it is the last thing that happens when you declare an attack.

If it was my decision, I would say it is just another "Declare attack" type effect, and so the attacker would go first and then the defender could play Deflection.  Rather than add steps that don't exist, I think that makes the most sense.  I think this should be similar to how "On the Lam" is really played during step 3 Rerolls because it says to play it before Apply Modifiers, and not in some intermediary step 3 and 4.

It wouldn't hurt to get clarification though.

[macmastermind 203]

There’s a post on BGG from Paul Winchester that declares: Arsenal means dice are decided at the moment dice are rolled. So Deflection is useless against it. 

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19288578#19288578

[DTDanix 845]

That answer doesn't make sense when you consider a newer card like Run for Cover: Use when an attack targeting you is declared.  Choose 1 die and remove it from the attack pool.

[ricope 350]

I think the answer is only restricted to Arsenal (IG-88) or Epic Arsenal (Gen Weiss), because for 99% of the case both players know exactly which dice makes up the attack pool, but that's not the case for Epic/Arsenal 

So yes I'd assume based on that ruling "Run for Cover" is also useless against IG-88 or General Weiss

[a1bert 4,115]

9 hours ago, DTDanix said:

That answer doesn't make sense when you consider a newer card like Run for Cover: Use when an attack targeting you is declared.  Choose 1 die and remove it from the attack pool.

Arsenal and Epic Arsenal are not removing or adding dice. Run for Cover is removing a die. It has an explicit timing - when attack is declared. Otherwise an ability that is removing or adding dice is performed just before rolling.

Edited February 22, 2018 by a1bert

[DTDanix 845]

I think it would make a lot more sense if all adding/removing/deciding the dice pool happened during the Declare Attack step, since that's when all of the abilities that add or remove dice happen.  It also matches up with how choosing your weapon works in campaign (which is arguably similar thematically to picking your dice in the arsenal).  The rules seem to mostly gloss over the concept of dice pool, so there isn't much to go on other than this ruling though, so I guess that's the way it is unless they want to change it.

So I guess you can remove a ? die with Run for Cover if you want to?

[Cremate 539]

1 hour ago, DTDanix said:

So I guess you can remove a ? die with Run for Cover if you want to?

a1bert and I discussed the combination of Run for Cover and IG and that was the conclusion we came to, prompted by this interaction popping up during the Dutch Nationals (where I had called it that way as judge).

IG's ability is fairly unique in that regard - as long as Wiess isn't seeing much play anyway - and I wouldn't mind seeing a clarification from Todd. As long as we don't have one, though, I'll considered it separate from all the other dice pool modifiers that have to be played prior to step 2.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Cremate

[TheWelcomeMat88 442]

Man IG is already so strong not this too lol!

[viktr 47]

On 22/2/2018 at 12:12 AM, DTDanix said:

That answer doesn't make sense when you consider a newer card like Run for Cover: Use when an attack targeting you is declared.  Choose 1 die and remove it from the attack pool.

A player from our community asked FFG about this and they stated that IG chooses dices during step 2, after Run for Cover is played.  So basically Run For Cover allows the defender to remove 1 green die or 1 ? die from IG attack pool. 

I can ask him to resend me the email to post it here, if you guys want.

Edited February 23, 2018 by viktr

[viktr 47]

Got the email.

Well, the question was about camouflage, but it goes the same for Run For Cover and Deflection I guess.

Quote

Hi Daniel,

 

 

IG-88 can choose his attack dice after Camouflage is played. Camouflage is played when the attack is declared (step 1 of an attack), and IG-88 doesn’t need to choose his dice until he collects them to roll in step 2.

 

 

Thanks for the question!

 

 

 

Todd Michlitsch

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by viktr

[macmastermind 203]

Yeah,  I think that ruling goes against the spirit of the ability (versatility, not omniscience or time travel).

You declare an attack with a weapon.  A weapon is defined by the dice/colors.  Every other unit in the game works this way, but for some reason the devs want Arsenal to have the added benefit of seeing the future...

In a world where this ruling doesn't exist anywhere in the RRG/FAQ, they have an opportunity to at least soften the currently broken IG fix.  But I guess that's not going to happen...

/Rant. 

[brettpkelly 774]

As if IG wasn't good enough already.

[macmastermind 203]

Quote

So basically Run For Cover allows the defender to remove 1 green die or 1 ? die from IG attack pool. 

Would it specifically be able to remove the green die (I assume you mean the focus die)?  Doesn't that get added at the time the dice are actually rolled?  Meaning your opportunity to remove one would only apply to the two iggy's controller could decide on?

[a1bert 4,115]

Focused adds a green die when you declare an attack or attribute test.

 

[Arviss 41]

On 3/2/2018 at 8:32 PM, a1bert said:

Focused adds a green die when you declare an attack or attribute test.

 

and this makes me want to go back to greedo losing focus after dying on slow on the draw and making parting shot

[a1bert 4,115]

34 minutes ago, Arviss said:

and this makes me want to go back to greedo losing focus after dying on slow on the draw and making parting shot

Focused is however discarded (only) after you resolve an attack or attribute test (as also defined by the condition card).

In the scenario of Slow On the Draw + Parting Shot, Greedo hasn't resolved an attack until the end of Parting Shot.

Edited March 4, 2018 by a1bert