Jesus why unpainted?!

[TylerTT 1,295]

Dunning Kruger is strong today

The dust premium line was made by dust studios. FFG does not have that production capacity in house. Look at their horror line to see what they are capable of in terms of pre painted humans.

ffg’s own Pre paint facilities are still having trouble keeping the X-wing line in print. I doubt they could train up enough workers to make a premium line in time for launch.

but maybe down the line? Who knows?

just don’t underestimate the difficulty of production it’s a very complex problem.

[steveisbig 152]

Soon after launch there will be pre-painted copies of the core/expansions on ebay. Just wait for those of us that like painting to get our extra copies and exercise capitalism.

[ninclouse2000 1,051]

6 hours ago, srMontresor said:

You won't regret those Army Painter brushes, they are excellent. Take care of them, only use them for what they're intended, and they will last a long time. They're my brush of choice in almost all cases. But do buy some cheap brushes for mixing paints etc.

Thanks.  I’ll make a trip to michaels to buy some extra cheap brushes before the game releases.  Are the army painter ones intended for fine detail?

[steveisbig 152]

24 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Thanks.  I’ll make a trip to michaels to buy some extra cheap brushes before the game releases.  Are the army painter ones intended for fine detail?

The light green ones from michaels are great. They will start to curl after a while, but i still use them from time to time. 

[srMontresor 165]

1 hour ago, ninclouse2000 said:

Thanks.  I’ll make a trip to michaels to buy some extra cheap brushes before the game releases.  Are the army painter ones intended for fine detail?

It depends on the brush. You can use their base-coat brushes for almost anything, including fine detail if your hands are steady enough for it. I generally just get their 3-brush starter packs and use those for almost everything I need. They hold up really well.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

3 hours ago, TylerTT said:

just don’t underestimate the difficulty of production it’s a very complex problem.

As various Kickstarters have learned to the dismay of their backers. 

[Virgil Cain 18]

For those of yall discussing brushes, while more expensive, the Kolensky Sable brushes are worth every penny, especially for fine detail work. 

[The Cocky Rooster 429]

4 hours ago, Jimbo2142 said:

Thank you for all of that benevolent recommendations and all that "paint them, or leave it and s*** up" statements - of course youre right. Lets comment on that things I could do with Legion:

Paint it by myself: So Im not new in modelling at all. I've been playing, building and modelling my own tabletop projects since I was 14 years old (Im 24 now). In that years I played 40k, FoW and some other tabletop systems. There are many paintings and assembly I've done in this time so im not a "noob" in that.... but I have 0 talent in painting. According to that for me its not an option to punish that Star Wars minis with my retardation.

Send it to a professional painter: Seems to be a way to get hands at well painted Legion minis. But its connected with many work like searching for a suitable painter, paying the money or getting the minis shipped. So.. this really is an option but not the best way for me.

Why dont they bring a premium Version like in DUST tactics? It would be soooooo easy. Order it - pay more money then standard - play. All the ppl who wants do paint and assemble on their own can still buy the standard and waaay cheaper version. Why not? I think it would be a win-win situation on that.

And I think there are no real counter-arguments except higher production costs by lower production outcome for FFG (which can be compensated by a horrendously higher price). So, to bring it all togehter, for me it seems just like a simple decision by FFG made here to not bringing pre-painted Legion minis

Great idea! This is what i did with Tomb of Annihilation.

[Amanal 2,557]

Watch ebay, in 2-3 months some of the top painters will be auctioning off their work. If you like a particular painter you can then open up a discussion as to painting more on commission.

For the most part the mark up between what I have seen in Dust basic to Dust Premium will be close to these sorts of costs but be so far removed in quality.

[TylerTT 1,295]

Zem brushes are a fantastic factory brand. You can get kolensky sable for very affordable rates. Just know they run a bit small.

[Ralgon 1,005]

12 hours ago, Jimbo2142 said:

 

Why dont they bring a premium Version like in DUST tactics? It would be soooooo easy. Order it - pay more money then standard - play. All the ppl who wants do paint and assemble on their own can still buy the standard and waaay cheaper version. Why not? I think it would be a win-win situation on that.

And I think there are no real counter-arguments except higher production costs by lower production outcome for FFG (which can be compensated by a horrendously higher price). So, to bring it all togehter, for me it seems just like a simple decision by FFG made here to not bringing pre-painted Legion minis

This is the part of the topic done to death. Dust wasn't painted by ffg, and ffg have come out and said the rrp of painted legion wouldn't be commercially viable in their opinion.

Source is an interview in tabletop gaming mag either dec 17/jan 18 issue

[Jimbo2142 52]

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

[...] and ffg have come out and said the rrp of painted legion wouldn't be commercially viable in their opinion.

Source is an interview in tabletop gaming mag either dec 17/jan 18 issue

Thank you for that information, Ralgon! I think there we got the made decision I was talking/thinking about.

Regards

Jimbo

[Eddie 108]

On 2/20/2018 at 2:41 AM, Undeadguy said:

Let's say you spend $300 on the painting investment and terrain stuff.

Compare that to a nice even mark up of 50% on all Legion products. If I remember correctly, buying 1 of everything from the start is $300, with a mark up it's $450. So yea, at the start it will be cheaper if they were painted. But that still only gets you 3 corps of each trooper. And there are more things coming out. By wave 4 or 5, unpainted will be far cheaper and that $300 investment will stretch much farther since you can water down paints. 

I've spent maybe $100 on stuff. Nearly none of it the high end stuff and it works great. I got a 24 pack of acrylic from A.C.Moore for $10, and 2 paint bush sets for $10 a piece. Got some detailing brushes for another $10. 3 terrain base paints on sale for $3, and they are 200mL. I also search the cheap paint aisle at Michaels and pick up $0.79 paints, and the best part is the 200 or so colors and styles. If you have no idea how to paint like me, it's not that bad. Once you get experience, that's when you buy the good paints.

As a general comment, not just as a reaction to you. If there is one piece of advice I want to give new people starting out: please do not purchase those cheap paints. It is always disheartening to see pictures of people painting miniatures with these, more so if they ask for feedback. They always look terrible to me. I never react to these posts cause I never want to hurt someones feelings. It is even worse when you see that their technique is good but the result looks terrible due to the paints used.

If you are going to spend your time painting, consider buying somewhat more expensive but specialized paints. Doesn't matter if you use vallejo, GW, army painter or another brand. 

[Undeadguy 5,749]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

As a general comment, not just as a reaction to you. If there is one piece of advice I want to give new people starting out: please do not purchase those cheap paints. It is always disheartening to see pictures of people painting miniatures with these, more so if they ask for feedback. They always look terrible to me. I never react to these posts cause I never want to hurt someones feelings. It is even worse when you see that their technique is good but the result looks terrible due to the paints used.

If you are going to spend your time painting, consider buying somewhat more expensive but specialized paints. Doesn't matter if you use vallejo, GW, army painter or another brand. 

If you have no skill when you start, you're better off learning the techniques instead of wasting money on paint when both will result in a subpar mini. Once you develop your painting skills, you should start to move onto higher quality paints. 

[Eddie 108]

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

If you have no skill when you start, you're better off learning the techniques instead of wasting money on paint when both will result in a subpar mini. Once you develop your painting skills, you should start to move onto higher quality paints. 

Well, I obviously disagree. In one case you might end up with a half decent mini. In the other case you might as well throw it in the garbage can or strip it right away. If you are thinking about getting into the hobby, better start with 8 pots of good paint than 24 pots of garbage. As you learn and need more different colors, you can expand your paint collection.

[KrisWall 966]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Well, I obviously disagree. In one case you might end up with a half decent mini. In the other case you might as well throw it in the garbage can or strip it right away. If you are thinking about getting into the hobby, better start with 8 pots of good paint than 24 pots of garbage. As you learn and need more different colors, you can expand your paint collection.

I want to throw my opinion in here as well.  The cheap paints are great for painting terrain.  They are terrible for painting miniatures.  On a mini, you'll find it very, very difficult to get a smooth finish using cheap paint.  You're absolutely better off getting a "starter kit" with basic colors from one of the various manufacturers.  Most of the basic colors can be mixed.  Need an orange?  Buy one OR just mix red and yellow from your starter kit.  Etc, etc.

• $33 - Games Workshop - comes with 12 small paints, a decent brush, some clippers and super glue.
  • https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Age-of-Sigmar-Citadel-Essentials-Set-USA
• $30 - Army Painter - comes with 10 normal sized paints and a decent detail brush
  • https://shop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=16#Warpaints Starter Paint Set
• $50 - Vallejo - comes with 16 normal sized paints
  • https://www.amazon.com/Game-Color-Intro-Set-16/dp/B000PHCTRK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1519219469&sr=8-6&keywords=vallejo+paint+set

Of the above, I'd be most likely to recommend the Army Painter kit.  The GW kit comes with half size paints, making it the most expensive kit per pot.  The Vallejo kit is the better kit, but $50 is high for a starter kit.  The Army Painter kit has a good assortment of paints, including a wash and comes with a "free" brush.

A craftsmen is only as good as his tools.  Get a decent brush and decent paints and you're in a position to learn how to paint decent looking minis.  Get craft paints and cheap brushes and your models will look bad.

[Cusm 466]

40 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

I want to throw my opinion in here as well.  The cheap paints are great for painting terrain.  They are terrible for painting miniatures.  On a mini, you'll find it very, very difficult to get a smooth finish using cheap paint.  You're absolutely better off getting a "starter kit" with basic colors from one of the various manufacturers.  Most of the basic colors can be mixed.  Need an orange?  Buy one OR just mix red and yellow from your starter kit.  Etc, etc.

• $33 - Games Workshop - comes with 12 small paints, a decent brush, some clippers and super glue.
  • https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Age-of-Sigmar-Citadel-Essentials-Set-USA
• $30 - Army Painter - comes with 10 normal sized paints and a decent detail brush
  • https://shop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=16#Warpaints Starter Paint Set
• $50 - Vallejo - comes with 16 normal sized paints
  • https://www.amazon.com/Game-Color-Intro-Set-16/dp/B000PHCTRK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1519219469&sr=8-6&keywords=vallejo+paint+set

Of the above, I'd be most likely to recommend the Army Painter kit.  The GW kit comes with half size paints, making it the most expensive kit per pot.  The Vallejo kit is the better kit, but $50 is high for a starter kit.  The Army Painter kit has a good assortment of paints, including a wash and comes with a "free" brush.

A craftsmen is only as good as his tools.  Get a decent brush and decent paints and you're in a position to learn how to paint decent looking minis.  Get craft paints and cheap brushes and your models will look bad.

IMO this is best for beginner painters.

https://www.amazon.com/Reaper-Miniatures-08906-Learn-Paint/dp/B00NTMC49G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519222173&sr=8-1&keywords=reaper+learn+to+paint+kit

$30 Comes with 11 normal size paints, missing a red oddly, 2 brushes, 3 minis, a guide on how to paint these minis and a handy case to store about 32 paint bottles.

This is what I am learning on and painting the 3 minis with the guide was easy and taught several basic techniques.

 

[KrisWall 966]

4 minutes ago, Cusm said:

IMO this is best for beginner painters.

https://www.amazon.com/Reaper-Miniatures-08906-Learn-Paint/dp/B00NTMC49G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519222173&sr=8-1&keywords=reaper+learn+to+paint+kit

$30 Comes with 11 normal size paints, missing a red oddly, 2 brushes, 3 minis, a guide on how to paint these minis and a handy case to store about 32 paint bottles.

This is what I am learning on and painting the 3 minis with the guide was easy and taught several basic techniques.

 

Oh yeah, that one is great.  I knew I was missing something.

[Skyguard 60]

If you know you your going to keep painting the Army Painter "Warpaints Mega Paint Set" at $77.97 comes in a great per paint value. 50 paints/washes and a med brush.  

https://www.gamenerdz.com/warpaints-mega-paint-set-2017

 

[KrisWall 966]

1 hour ago, Skyguard said:

If you know you your going to keep painting the Army Painter "Warpaints Mega Paint Set" at $77.97 comes in a great per paint value. 50 paints/washes and a med brush.  

https://www.gamenerdz.com/warpaints-mega-paint-set-2017

 

That's an amazing deal.  I might buy it and pitch all my older GW paints.  The lids cause them to dry out quickly.

 

[Susanooo 113]

If someone want a painted minis: pm me I am pretty good with painting and i will gladly paint your troops

[KalEl814 1,510]

4 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

If you have no skill when you start, you're better off learning the techniques instead of wasting money on paint when both will result in a subpar mini. Once you develop your painting skills, you should start to move onto higher quality paints. 

Honestly I think a lot of the cheap paints are totally fine and you can get decent, tabletop worthy results with them. The biggest mistake I see people make is that they don’t thin the paints at all, it’s going right from the palette to the mini undiluted. Doesn’t matter if you’re using the cheap stuff from Michael’s or a high quality, made-for-minis product if it’s just going to be globbed on.

Better paints absolutely behave more nicely, but if you’re going directly from a pot of Ceramite White to a Stormtrooper, you’re in trouble.

[Amanal 2,557]

6 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

If you have no skill when you start, you're better off learning the techniques instead of wasting money on paint when both will result in a subpar mini. Once you develop your painting skills, you should start to move onto higher quality paints. 

Yes, as long as you realise your sup-par results is probably caused by sup-par paints.

Paints consist of two parts, the pigment, which is the colour part and the medium which is used to move the pigment from the bottle to the brush and onto your surface. More often than not the pigment is cheep, and the medium is not only cheep but designed to hold texture. So brush strokes are not going to go away and it will cover details.

What you should be learning is the consistency to water the paints and how to use a brush. You'll be surprised at how much easier it gets with some good paint.

[KrisWall 966]

12 minutes ago, Amanal said:

Yes, as long as you realise your sup-par results is probably caused by sup-par paints.

Paints consist of two parts, the pigment, which is the colour part and the medium which is used to move the pigment from the bottle to the brush and onto your surface. More often than not the pigment is cheep, and the medium is not only cheep but designed to hold texture. So brush strokes are not going to go away and it will cover details.

What you should be learning is the consistency to water the paints and how to use a brush. You'll be surprised at how much easier it gets with some good paint.

Absolutely agreed.  For a little more information, miniature paints have very finely ground pigments suspended in a liquid medium.  "Craft" paints, have a much coarser pigment grind.  No matter how good you are as a painter, craft paints are always going to come out looking more "chalky" than a good miniature paint.  You're really best off just getting a handful of quality paints and then learning the basics.

The entire Imperial faction will require very few colors.  Prime black.  Vader gets a grey light drybrush all over, gloss on the glossy armor panels, red for the lightsaber and chest lights.  Stormtroopers get grey on the armor panels, grey light drybrush on the guns, black wash all over and then white on the armor panels, leaving grey in the cracks and edges.  Speeder Bikes get the same treatment with the addition of brown + dark wash and silver + dark wash in the appropriate places.  I'm thinking...

• black primer
• medium grey
• white
• red
• medium to light brown color
• dark wash/shade

Rebels would use the above plus maybe green and a fleshtone.  Also, blue or light green for Luke's saber blade. 

Painting videos like Sorastro makes are fantastic, but are really geared towards painters who have already largely mastered the basics.  The Warhammer TV Youtube channel has some pretty solid tutorials that are a little easier to achieve with most colors being basecoat + wash + highlights if wanted.  Highlights make things look better, but basecoat + wash usually looks "good enough".

[Skyguard 60]

46 minutes ago, Amanal said:

Yes, as long as you realise your sup-par results is probably caused by sup-par paints.

Paints consist of two parts, the pigment, which is the colour part and the medium which is used to move the pigment from the bottle to the brush and onto your surface. More often than not the pigment is cheep, and the medium is not only cheep but designed to hold texture. So brush strokes are not going to go away and it will cover details.

What you should be learning is the consistency to water the paints and how to use a brush. You'll be surprised at how much easier it gets with some good paint.

100% agree, when  I first started I used the cheap craft paint from walmart/michaels, and I was amazed at the difference when I bought some Vallejo paints for the first time. While yes you can paint to table top quality with the cheap craft stuff, you're making it so much harder. Pick up a limited palette of nicer paints and a good quality brush and go from there.  I know it is super tempting to just spend $0.50 a color for the apple barrel stuff at walmart but you're going to spend so much more time fighting the paint. 

 

Painting videos like Sorastro makes are fantastic, but are really geared towards painters who have already largely mastered the basics.  The Warhammer TV Youtube channel has some pretty solid tutorials that are a little easier to achieve with most colors being basecoat + wash + highlights if wanted.  Highlights make things look better, but basecoat + wash usually looks "good enough".

I think if you look at the early Sorastro IA video's they are geared to a more basic level, (The Stormtrooper, Royal Guards and Probe Droids ones are great starters for dry brushing and the idea of basecoat+wash+highlight) he has added more techniques as he continued to make the videos building off the basics he teaches in the early videos. The biggest downside of Sorastro for a true beginner is that he uses a lot of colors which can be daunting when your just starting out, it's ok to mix colors if you don't want to drop as much money to get started.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Skyguard