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BrobaFett

Wave 7 Regional with a Wave 6 Fleet - So Cal Regional AAR

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It's been a long day of Armada, and while my brain is soup, half of that soup will be spoiled by tomorrow morning so if I want to get out all my thoughts, I gotta do it now.

 

First off, I gotta say that at 32 people the field in So Cal was unbelievably competitive. The scores were tight, the fleets were diverse, and I am SO fortunate to live in area where Armada is flourishing, and we have 5 stores within 30 minutes with populous Armada groups, and we had a fair number of out of towners as well. To those who came to breakfast, I am so glad that we could get together and get to know each other better. The Armada community is at it's best when it's reaching out and bringing new people into the family. 

Going into the regional I had two fleets, one was a Raddus MC30, Profundity, Hammerhead list not entirely dissimilar to the list JJ used in the vassal WC. I really like the list, and MC75 in particular, and was having good results with it, but it ran on the ragged edge and I wasn't sure I had enough mastery of it to take it to a tournament with success. On the other hand I my Motti Combat Air Patrol. This is the fleet I am using in the WC. It's a fleet that looks like confused garbage, but wins games. Morna, Maarek, and Jendon dump out damage, Motti Demo with ET and Tua/ECM is hard hard hard to kill, and without being over encumbered the 71pt quasar is a prime trade up ship. In 2 of my 4 games today I didn't lose a ship. One of those was a 10/1 tabling. But it was the very definition of a wave 6 fleet. It has dumb flotilla spam, relay, and a beefy squad compliment. But I wasn't playing wave 6 any more. I was very confident in a wave 6 environment, but wave 7 was so new I just didn't know what to even expect.

I was torn on which to run. I wanted to use Raddus at the tournament, but everyone told me that not using the fleet I had practiced and was confident with was a mistake. @MandalorianMoose told me I would regret taking an insufficiently tested fleet. I was worried that my Motti fleet was too countered by wave 7, after getting dealt a painful 13 MOV loss by JJ in the WC. Plus I had just tabled the guy who ended up winning 5th or 6th overall with Raddus and liked the likely matchups for that fleet. End result was I went with Motti, and as I suspected, the fleet is horribly outclassed in wave 7.

 

First round- 

Played against Graham, a guy who I had NOT played yet, but I had connected with the week prior. This was his first tournament, and his was the list I figured I would see a lot of all day - light squads, big ship. He had a Dodonna MC75 with Garel's Honor, External Racks, and Ordnance Experts, mc30 admonition with H9 and Walex, and a couple flotillas. Tycho, Shara, and 2 VCX's for the squads. We had the same bid and I won the toss and took first player. I deployed pretty conservative, and Graham deployed at an angle to intercept. Our fleets started to move together, but then suddenly he determined that I was about to inflict heavy losses on him, so he turned and ran. With the MC75 out of reach, Admonition being admo, and the hammerhead in profundity I killed the squads and the game ended with a 6/5 for me as I chased him to the board edge.

 

Second Round-

Second example of the fleet I figured I would face all day, squadronless ISD, Demo, 3x Gozanti. He had bid by 1pt, and chose first player. We played my Nav Hazards, I outdeployed him, so I dropped my squad ball middle table and waited for all his ships to get placed. Then I counter deployed him with Quasar and Demo, Demo going wide and quasar going near. His ships were moving slow to help make up the deploymet advantage, but he lost it when he kept them slow turn 1. It let my squadrons get real far out in front of my ships and start bombing. Turn 2 Morna/Maarek/Jendon (MMJ) killed a raider by themselves. Turn 3 MMJ killed another Raider and injued a GR75. Turn 4 I killed a Gozanti and Started on Demo. Turn 5 I kill Demo, Turn 6 I killed the ISD. My Demo had 1 hull damage on him and mauler had taken 1 as well. Highlight of the game was playing Nav Hazards to move a rock underneath the speed 1 ISD. It drew comms net, went to 0, and Demo unloaded two turns into it. This game made me feel bad. It was an example of everything wrong with this list. Final score was 415-0. He took 1 shot, and did 1 hull to Demo.

 

Third Round- 

At this point I am doing pretty well sitting in fifth place over all. Honestly, I was starting to think maybe everyone was right and I would be fine with Motti. Then I got matched up against Sloane. Now, not to sound arrogant, but this fleet is more than adequate to beat Sloane. I've done it MANY times. I'm probably..... 5 wins and 1 loss with this fleet against sloane. I was pretty confident going into this round that I could 7 or 8 out of this match. But this Sloane was updated for wave 7 with Strategic Advisor. Because of that, he effectively had 6 activations (ISD Avenger, 4 Gozanti) so if I gave him first he would first last, if I took first he would have 2 activations after me. Either way was bad. I picked first figuring I could draw the alpha on a ship, which is my normal way of dealing with Sloane. However, in this one, at the start of the game my opponent dropped his ISD to 0 and essentially said he was going to take the 6/5 0 mov second player win. To try and avoid that, since we were playing superior positions, first I dangled the rear of a Gozanti trying to get him to alpha it, then the rear of the quasar, then another gozanti rear. Turn 5 he chases a Gozanti, but by then it was too late. I ran it off the board edge to prevent him from farming it for Superior Positions. I couldn't make up points without making it worse, so I took the 5. This was incredibly frustrating as we had just played 6 rounds of Armada without shooting each other. That sucks ***. I get sometimes at a tournament it can be a thing, but this was my second game of runaway don't fight in a single tournament. With a 5pt loss I had officially lost a shot at the overall win, as the top table was two guys who traveled together so it would go 6/5 to keep anyone from being able to displace one of them. However I could still get top 4, I figured, with an 8 or better. Optimistically, I mused that with my Sloane matchup out of the way, I was bound to play a fleet that could put me within striking distance. So I went into the next round excited that 8pts really hasn't been an issue for my fleet (in wave 6). I felt confident that after 2 boring no shooting run away games I was going to get a decent game.

 

Fourth Round-

But I was wrong. I drew another Wave 7 Sloane. ZZZ This time it was a truly wave 7 take on the admiral not just an improved wave 6 fleet. It had another Avenger ISD with 2 gozantis and Pryce with a 27(?) pt bid for first. The same squad heavy matchup, twice in a row had me seriously sad. Soon as I heard my matchup I knew my tournament was done cause I wasn't about to fight a third run away game. But I knew I was AGAIN faced with the decision to charge into destruction, or run away for a 6/5. In hindsight, a 6 here would put me 7th overall, getting me dice which I would have been happy with. But I was ******* tired, and ******* tired of not playing armada during a full day of Armada games, so I decided to go for broke. My opponent set Pryce to turn 3, so I figured I would surprise him by driving the quasar right into his grill and alpha-ing him turn 2 when I could essentially last then kinda first him. I moved the quasar into position, and I saw his eyes go wide when he realized what was about to happen. Unforunately, by this point my brain was incredibly tired, and I made an unbelievably foolish mistake. Activating squads end of turn 1 I said to myself that in order to alpha turn 2 I needed them in position by turn 2. But that is wrong, to alpha turn 2 I need them in position by turn 1. I DO NOT know how this wire got crossed in my brain. It does not make any sense, and I think this is the potentially the worst error I've made in a tournament since I was brand spanking new. But I wasn't into the matchup, and I zoned out. So I messed up and deployed my squads too conservative at the end of round 1 so they couldn't reach anything the next turn when I was supposed to be alpha-ing. At that point, I was at cross purpose. My quasar was already committed, per my plan, and my squads were out of position. The moment the turn counter changed and I looked at the board, then at the 2 on the turn counter, then back at the board I realized what I just did and resolved that this was the end of my tournament and I would just go down swinging. Squads died, we bled each others screen, and he killed the quasar for an 8pt win against me. II was right, 8pts was good enough for 3rd. I played very poorly, but he didn't particularly play his squads well either. It was just ineffient enough that I kept a flicker of hope that if I could just tank that double alpha I could pull something out of this one, but last first with sloane just wears you down too much, by turn 4 when I activated they couldn't trade back fast enough. Since I only got 3 points out of this one, I dropped from 5th all the way to 13th. Don't regret going for it, a game of Armada you fight and lose is better than dice any day of the week. 

 

Overall, the wave 7 meta is a conundrum. In some sense, it is certainly a shake up. Big ships are great again- kinda.  Large ships with light squads were there, but they eluded me in the matchups overall and squadrons again rose to the top. I myself brought a wave 6 knife to a wave 7 squad fight. And it is clear at the end of the day, the issues of wave 7 are still here to stay. The top fleets had all the jank. Flotillas, relay, and now buffed even MORE by cards like Strategic Adviser and Bail/Pryce. Top 3 were all max squads and at least 2 of the 3 had Pryce or Bail and I think all three did. I can wonder how things would have turned out if I brought Raddus, but the reality is it didn't have a great answer for a squad fleet either. If you take 134 pts in squads, the games where you match against other max squad players end in 6/5 or 7/4 and are either mutually bloody or boring games of armada. If you don't end up against a squad player, either they run for 6/5 and another boring game of armada or or you table them. In my case, I could have gotten 7th overall on 3 runaways and 1 table. I decided to go for broke and shoot for range templates knowing it wasn't favorable after my error, and it didn't pan out.

I am interested to see where the wave 7 meta goes from here. Our area in So Cal is insanely competitive, so this is only the beginning and I know fleets will continue to change and evolve. Thanks to everyone I got to hang out with, everyone who came to breakfast, and all my opponents.

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Nice report, I hate the thought of playing runaway games - much like I'm probably not ever going to use a bye; I just want to play Armada!

After playing the Welsh Regionals the meta seems to polarised into either 1-2 big ships or max squads and slam ships/flotillas.

Seems to be no place for mediums any more. Flotilla spam wasn't as bad but still a few fleets with 3-4.

Barring the odd fleet, I think all Imps had an ISD and Rebels were either an MC-75 or Yavaris max squads.

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Thanks for encouraging Graham and I to come out! Crazy long day but very enjoyable. Too bad we didn’t get to see how you would have done against my Cymoon death Avenger (probably well… I HATE relay). He certainly didn’t run away at all yesterday. Haha

Edited by mr_mithrandir

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1 hour ago, mr_mithrandir said:

Thanks for encouraging Graham and I to come out! Crazy long day but very enjoyable. Too bad we didn’t get to see how you would have done against my Cymoon death Avenger (probably well… I HATE relay). He certainly didn’t run away at all yesterday. Haha

Im so glad you came out! You and Graham both did killer and now I've played both of you we gotta get a beer league game in soon!

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32!   I had to choose AZ or Socal regionals this year, and Imperial Outpost games are awesome and I had a good time there, but hopefully next year Socal and Az will have more than a 1 week space so I can hit both :)

 

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That is an awesome Bat Rep. I wish the results were more in your favor, since I know what that fleet can do (and I eventually will steal it for my own! :-)

One question though.  Round two, when you place the obstacle "under the ISD" you mean in front of so it would run over it? Nav hazards says you can't place to overlap a ship. I ask because I REALLY want to practice that objective, and any bat reps where folks are using it, I pay attention. Do you like how it plays out for you? Maybe I should just jump on vassal with you and play it so I can get some tips sometime....

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2 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:

That is an awesome Bat Rep. I wish the results were more in your favor, since I know what that fleet can do (and I eventually will steal it for my own! :-)

One question though.  Round two, when you place the obstacle "under the ISD" you mean in front of so it would run over it? Nav hazards says you can't place to overlap a ship. I ask because I REALLY want to practice that objective, and any bat reps where folks are using it, I pay attention. Do you like how it plays out for you? Maybe I should just jump on vassal with you and play it so I can get some tips sometime....

Yeah, i meant that i placed the rock right in front of him and when he hit it he drew coms net..... at close range of a demo side arc.

At the start of the next turn, per nav hazards rules, the obstacle was moved out from under his base as it must be moved and cannot end the movement under a base. 

Nav hazards is typically a low scoring objective, but I found in both games I played that it let me build a wall so to speak in the optimal attack vectors. Having played it twice now in competition, and thus officially being an expert, i can say I was suprised by its use. It is definitely going to be something I revist for fleets that struggle with blue objective choice (I dislike DT, it cost me the 7pts in game 1!)

Edited by BrobaFett

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5 hours ago, elbmc1969 said:

Anybody catch the SoCal finals today?

I played in it!....

 

and lost 6-5. To an outside observer it wasn't going to be an entertaining game to watch. I flew a Sato MC75 list, and my opponent flew a Motti double Quasar Bomber fleet. He had 7 Tie Bombers, Jendon and Steele, and Ruthless Strategists on the Quasars.

 

I made the decision to not dive in with my ordinance cruiser. I wanted to bait him in to diving my MC75, with the hope of drawing out his intel so I could lock him down before my dive in. He used Squall to get Maarek in pouncing range of a flotilla that didn't have a fighter screen on it. He stripped it of it's scatter token. He then piled enough bombers on to kill the flotilla. Playing from behind, I had to engage his squadrons out of my ideal position. He won with an MOV of 32 in one of the lowest scoring games of Armada I've ever played, where we waited each other out until we found a crack in the armor of the other player. He found mine first.

My list was meant to big game hunt, and I felt that diving in on the quasars was going to result in me trading down hard in points. I didn't want to take the bait with only one brace and redirect available.

 

Here is my list:

1 • MC75 Ordnance Cruiser - Commander Sato - Bail Organa - Ordnance Experts - Reinforced Blast Doors - Assault Proton Torpedoes - External Racks (156)
2 • Nebulon-B Support Refit - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits - Salvation (65)
3 • GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
4 • GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
5 • GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
6 • Han Solo Millennium Falcon (26)
7 • VCX-100 Freighter (15)
8 • VCX-100 Freighter (15)
9 • Shara Bey A-wing Squadron (17)
10 • Tycho Celchu A-wing Squadron (16)
11 • A-wing Squadron (11)
12 • A-wing Squadron (11)
13 • HWK-290 (12)

All said and done, I had a great time flying the last two days. His list was designed to punish me for diving in, and I opted to try to squeeze out a win under the thinnest of margins. I failed to do so.

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First off great battle report @BrobaFett, you had the well done Galactic Republic scheme painted fleet!  I think we played tables next to each other twice and it was enjoyable both times.  That third round game was brutal.  Your opponent, El, is one of our toughest players and his bread and butter is flying sloane and ISDs.  Also going speed zero is his thing.  In our group chat his nickname is "Turtle Speed" so it wasn't something solely brought out for just a tournie.  Idk what else to say, it's brutal.  You faced very likely one of the top 4 most skilled players there flying a list that yours is weaker to and still came to essentially a tie.  My takeaway from yesterday was a reminder how much of it is insanely RNG based on how you get your matchups :/

You were really pleasant so I imagine it's not meant with malice or ill-will, but I was one of those top two guys on the Round 4 top table, we were not going for 6/5, and it's disappointing that's the assumption.  We both were trying to beat the other just like in any other of our matches.  I actually didn't travel with my opponent as we came as a group of EIGHT of us and took three cars.  With a quarter of the total players from our one store where we play 1-4 games a week, we're going to face our own group and no way are we going to take it easy.  Example: Your opponent Round 3, El, dunked another of our players 9-2 Round 1, then squeaked a 6/5 against another of our players, Nick who eventually rose to 3rd by the end.
It's a tournie, we're friends, and going to laugh, joke, and encourage each other, but we were and will continue to absolutely play to win.  
Again, you seem a great guy, but the casual 'of course they're going to 6-5' is a bit saddening and hurtful :/

Hey @elbmc1969,
I flew in today's championship game and won!  It was exciting to win and I'll post a full battle report with photos in the next day or two with lists etc...
Edit: I was flying Double Queso.  Also since I just signed up, despite posting this Sun evening it needs a mod approval.

Edited by Wackkoman

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I'm still pretty salty that I only got to play 2 games.  Stupid bye!  Also sad that I was ineligible for any prizes since I had to leave early.  Any idea what place a score of 23 would have gotten me?

High point of the day was definitely meeting everybody, including by not limited too, @thecactusman17@themightyhedgehog, @mr_mithrandir, Graham and @MandalorianMoose.

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2 hours ago, Tiberius the Killer said:

I'm still pretty salty that I only got to play 2 games.  Stupid bye!  Also sad that I was ineligible for any prizes since I had to leave early.  Any idea what place a score of 23 would have gotten me?

High point of the day was definitely meeting everybody, including by not limited too, @thecactusman17@themightyhedgehog, @mr_mithrandir, Graham and @MandalorianMoose.

And me. You just didn't realize it.

I swear, I'm bringing "My Username Is" badges from now on.

;)

Edited by elbmc1969
New thought!

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https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/269936-regionals-data-feb-17/?do=findComment&comment=3218464

14, 15, and 16 all had 23 points.

You may well have been better off not using the bye. Always luck of the draw with the matchup. Elijah vaulted into first after the first round because he was matched against one of the least experienced players in the event. He was able to hold on to first throughout the tournament because of that.

Edited by elbmc1969

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7 hours ago, Tiberius the Killer said:

I'm still pretty salty that I only got to play 2 games.  Stupid bye!  Also sad that I was ineligible for any prizes since I had to leave early.  Any idea what place a score of 23 would have gotten me?

High point of the day was definitely meeting everybody, including by not limited too, @thecactusman17@themightyhedgehog, @mr_mithrandir, Graham and @MandalorianMoose.

Dude I am bummed that you only got two in. Let's try to get all of us in a store tournament in the near future so that we can rectify your lost game. 

Have to say my highlight of this day was playing against @themightyhedgehog. Gifted me with a couple of mistakes to allow the big win (Avenger is mean), but this game could have gone either way for the entire 6 rounds. Rieekan Aces vs. Vader's Cymoon of death. Fancy flying by Vader is probably the only reason the Star Destroyer survived. One of the most fun games of Armada that I have played. 

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16 hours ago, mr_mithrandir said:

Dude I am bummed that you only got two in. Let's try to get all of us in a store tournament in the near future so that we can rectify your lost game. 

Have to say my highlight of this day was playing against @themightyhedgehog. Gifted me with a couple of mistakes to allow the big win (Avenger is mean), but this game could have gone either way for the entire 6 rounds. Rieekan Aces vs. Vader's Cymoon of death. Fancy flying by Vader is probably the only reason the Star Destroyer survived. One of the most fun games of Armada that I have played. 

Honestly, the thing that I took away from this tournament is that our local group here is an awesome group! It makes me so insanely excited to show up to casual quarter tournament, push space ship with the buds, and have a good day.

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On 18.2.2018 at 10:46 AM, BrobaFett said:

First round- 

... so he turned and ran. ...

 

Third Round- 

...However, in this one, at the start of the game my opponent dropped his ISD to 0 and essentially said he was going to take the 6/5 0 mov second player win.

 

This is the really sad (problematic) part on Armada. If your opponent does not want to fight, it is hard to get a fight. And it is really hard to get a good MOV this way.

The drawback for these players is, that they cannot win the tournament at all (if this tactic is used to often). Their score will be to low.
For each 6-5 match you have, you need at least an 10-1 win in another round.

 

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2 hours ago, Tokra said:

This is the really sad (problematic) part on Armada. If your opponent does not want to fight, it is hard to get a fight. And it is really hard to get a good MOV this way.

The drawback for these players is, that they cannot win the tournament at all (if this tactic is used to often). Their score will be to low.
For each 6-5 match you have, you need at least an 10-1 win in another round.

 

100% correct. If you are there to win and draw a 6/5 it gets very tough. I managed to get the 10 round 2, but it still only put me in fifth. At that point i felt ok, but to hit another 6/5 round 3 was just bad luck for me AND my opponent. Wrecked both of our chances to catch the leaders.

 

Speaking of leaders, i dont know how I didn't see your comments till now @kaganator22 and @Wackkoman

Congrats on a hard won regional. You two (And your entire group!) had by FAR the best and most competitive wave 7 fleets in the field, and of course you all played them well on top of that. 

Connor, gotta excuse me if it felt like I was shading your round 4. Everything got typed at roughly 2am haha and I conflated the fact you guys were friends and you played each other in a way that after reading it here made it seem more negative than i meant.

I'm a pragmatic guy, after rd 3 I wanted to see if I could still win it, but when I looked at the scores I knew that I only had a chance if your game was a big blowout, and it made 0 sense for either of you to risk it. Friends, enemies, if you have a lock on the cut you take it and don't risk it. That's why I say I was shooting for top 4, I knew your game would be 6/5 cause it would be stupid for either if you to risk losing the spot at the cut.

You certainly earned the win and I am happy for you, you got paired against my buddy that is an awesome player playing an unforgiving fleet and got the win rd 1.

 

Also, not sure you remember me, but I played both Connor and Elijah a LONG time ago. At a wave... maybe.. 2 tourney. Glad to see familiar faces sticking around in Armada for the long haul. 

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You can mitigate the run to a certain extent by going second and taking objectives that earn points consistently like fire lanes, in that scenario it’s easy to farm the yellow and blue so you force them into taking the red objective really and then you only need to kill one thing to get big points with most wanted or you could always take precision with a bomber ball. 

Not saying it’s easy but you can conceivably force your opponent into a game with the right objectives.  Same goes in reverse too, if you take minefields and your opponent decides it’s just to hard to do anything that’s on you. 

 

At at least part of the strategy for tournaments has got to be ensuing that your opponent at least feels like they have a chance to win.  Harder and harder to do if people take binary killers like BT avenger which WILL destroy its target, you’ve taken the luck out of it so your opponent makes a binary choice and ?‍♂️...

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Just per the discussion, even though it can be frustrating (I’ve experienced it myself many a time) I always find it odd when someone not engaging / running away is begrudged in a competitive setting. 

Your opponent is trying to do the best they can to achieve the best victory they can. Sometimes that means that the best option they have (like in a mismatch) is just to run and aim for a 6-5. The onus is on you to destroy their fleet or otherwise score victory points. 

I don’t know, I know it’s not exactly what people mean (and it is a bit of an uncharitable reduction) but it always sounds funny to me when people are essentially complaining ‘Why didn’t my opponent just fly into me and die?’

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10 hours ago, Captain Weather said:

Just per the discussion, even though it can be frustrating (I’ve experienced it myself many a time) I always find it odd when someone not engaging / running away is begrudged in a competitive setting. 

Your opponent is trying to do the best they can to achieve the best victory they can. Sometimes that means that the best option they have (like in a mismatch) is just to run and aim for a 6-5. The onus is on you to destroy their fleet or otherwise score victory points. 

I don’t know, I know it’s not exactly what people mean (and it is a bit of an uncharitable reduction) but it always sounds funny to me when people are essentially complaining ‘Why didn’t my opponent just fly into me and die?’

I totally get this. Mathematically, if you only need a win because you blew out your first three opponents, why would you mass suicide "for the love of the game"? Especially in a regional that has implications for future tournaments? There is only one bye available. 

 

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10 hours ago, Captain Weather said:

Just per the discussion, even though it can be frustrating (I’ve experienced it myself many a time) I always find it odd when someone not engaging / running away is begrudged in a competitive setting. 

Your opponent is trying to do the best they can to achieve the best victory they can. Sometimes that means that the best option they have (like in a mismatch) is just to run and aim for a 6-5. The onus is on you to destroy their fleet or otherwise score victory points. 

I don’t know, I know it’s not exactly what people mean (and it is a bit of an uncharitable reduction) but it always sounds funny to me when people are essentially complaining ‘Why didn’t my opponent just fly into me and die?’

Very true.  Individually, you can't fault each player for drawing the conclusion that the best move for their performance would be to run away.  And especially in a competitive tournament, this is very understandable.

I think it would get very frustrating though if multiple opponents in the same day do that.  It sounds like Broba almost had 3/4 games turn out that way.  I'd be grumpy too.

That said, it can be a problem if certain archetypes have very clear-cut win/lose matchups.  I saw this happen in Firestorm where a certain fleet type could absolutely demolish certain others, and force a non-game in the event they drew one of their counters.  It did feel pretty bad.

Edited by duck_bird

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