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LordBlunt

“If you do this, a bloodline will end.”

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19 hours ago, agarrett said:

  Many other cultures have been mentioned in fictions. I don't know any details of the sale, and what FFG owns or doesn't. Still, my advice is to stay away from other cultures. The isolation of Rokugan is part of who they are. The eternal backbiting and fighting within the clans is exacerbated by the lack of an external enemy (which is why AEG's regular outside enemy attacks fictions wound up damaging the world, aside from being repetitive.) The Shadowlands is still there, but they're not such an overt threat most of the time - unless you're a Crab, of course ;)

 The old AEG line worked really well, where Rokugan knew gaijin cultures existed. They'd fought them, and won, centuries ago, thus proving their inevitable and obvious superiority, and now they'd just put them out of their minds and never concern themselves with them again. And then the bloody Unicorn had to come back and spoil all that - unforgivable, really.

I disagree. Involving the other people from that world - either directly with Rokugan or in their own stories/game - just adds more depth and options to the world. 

This doesn't mean Rokugan should be constantly invaded or have forgieners in their country at all times, but ignoring everything else completely......

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I prefer they dont expand as fast as what AEG did. Pretty sure they can add more stories and twists just within Rokugan before they run out of ideas and eventually having to add all the other nearby countries and creature groups into the story.

I actually prefer Shadowlands to remain as mindless attacking monsters for now with the occasional sneaky goblins even though I look forward to the discovery of the black scrolls. ?

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There are anyways some foreign powers that have been hinted at in the RPG beta, by referring to Unicorn and Mantis clans culture having knowledge of foreign languages Ivinda, Mekhem, Banatu and Portuga. 

while they do not own maybe the rights to Burning Sands of Ivory Kingdoms IP, those are still the border countries of Rokugan. They will I bet be used, but with non already trademarked names. 

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12 hours ago, Yogo Rye X said:

I actually prefer Shadowlands to remain as mindless attacking monsters for now with the occasional sneaky goblins even though I look forward to the discovery of the black scrolls. ?

The Shadowlands are already shown to be beyond the "mindless attacking monsters" stage.  In the first Crab fiction they mention how the Shadowlands army is organized and part of the reason why Kisada is so concerned.

I'm all well and good with their not being any official Shadowlands faction for a bit.  The clans need to be based out a little more and see the potential for corruption in so if them before we know which clans will ultimately fall.  We know there will be another Shadowlands character, supposedly a pretty big one, in the next expansion cycle, so it's going to happen at some point.  It needs to and it should happen.  Clan Wars are interesting but you can only pit everyone against each other so many times before that gets worn out too

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I just hope they think of some new threats beside "ancient primordial evil bent on the destruction of Rokugan" or "the clans are butting heads again." Once is fine, but there's only so many times you can write that before it gets stale. The invasion of a foreign military that isn't just a horde of monsters, or a new Emperor who wants total control and tries to abolish the clans, or an Emperor who's less interested in tradition and throws Rokugan's society into disarray could all be interesting story lines to go down.

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7 hours ago, Swordbreaker said:

I just hope they think of some new threats beside "ancient primordial evil bent on the destruction of Rokugan" or "the clans are butting heads again." Once is fine, but there's only so many times you can write that before it gets stale. The invasion of a foreign military that isn't just a horde of monsters, or a new Emperor who wants total control and tries to abolish the clans, or an Emperor who's less interested in tradition and throws Rokugan's society into disarray could all be interesting story lines to go down.

A Meiji/Satsuma Rebellion civil war sounds like it'd be an interesting story. The new Emperor wants to modernize Rokugan and/or centralize power in the Imperial Throne even further, but is opposed by the Clans who see their hegemony being threatened.

Actually, that sounds bit like the Iron Empire from the 4th Ed. RPG, now that I think about it.

I'm not sure if some fans would be comfortable with the changes to the setting something like that might cause, though.

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"Modernize" need not mean Westernize. There is already the question of Meishodo. What if an enterprising young Emperor combined a taste for active rule with a knack for foreign magic. The Unicorn Champion already thinks her role is to "modernize" the Empire in terms of opening it up to development via outside influence. If the next reigning Hantei sympathized with that - and let me be clear here - that hideous notion, there could well be some trouble.

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Cultural clash is anyway coming to the empire. An "heresy" like the pure land sect and it's view on the relations between caste is the perfect brew for a religious civil war. 

For those who got Imperial History, the time of the famine, erased from history by the shosuro/Ikoma alliance shows how social inequalities can bring civil war. 

The Empire will have a hard time to suddenly start an industrial revolution, closed and xenophobe as it is. like in Iron Empire, it may need a foreign intervention to force it. 

Edited by Nitenman

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3 hours ago, Nitenman said:

An "heresy" like the pure land sect and it's view on the relations between caste is the perfect brew for a religious civil war.

Not An FFG Official Opinion (tm): this is why I was so excited to see the Perfect Land Sect introduced to the story in the reboot, and why I'm loving the chance to work on that part of things. It's not MWAHAHAHA I AM A FORCE OF EVIL OUT TO TAKE OVER EVERYTHING YOU MUST UNITE AGAINST ME -- it's a lot subtler and more complicated than that, but still with a lot of potential to cause Empire-wide strife, depending on how FFG chooses to have it play out. I find that way more interesting to write than some god coming in and stomping all over everything.

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Also not an official FFG stance, just mine...I have no problem with A conflict that revolves around the Shadowlands that threatens the Empire. I would not, however, want it to become a recurring thing. L5R is always going to need conflict, both for the game(s), which are fundamentally about conflict; and for the story, because stories without conflict of some sort aren't really stories at all. That said, there's a HUGE pool of potential conflict within and among the clans, at levels that range from personal to Empire-wide. I think part of the reason the story, in the past, involved external threats so often was because they were easy...you generally didn't have "winners" and "losers" among the clans if they were united against something like Yogo Junzo, or Daigotsu, or Iuchiban, or who/whatever. Given the extent to which players and fans embrace particular clans in this game environment, if the clans clash, then the "losers" can come away pretty PO'd and frustrated. Imbalances in the associated game products (mainly the card game, but I suppose we could see other L5R games coming to influence the story) exacerbates this--if clan A is performing very well in the game, and clan B is behind the curve, then clan B's losses just seem that much more egregious.

It's a tough juggling act, serving all of the clans in a dramatic sense while maintaining a coherent and interesting story, while incorporating story results from game products that are probably not ever going to be perfectly balanced.

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On 5/3/2018 at 12:48 PM, Nitenman said:

There are anyways some foreign powers that have been hinted at in the RPG beta, by referring to Unicorn and Mantis clans culture having knowledge of foreign languages Ivinda, Mekhem, Banatu and Portuga. 

while they do not own maybe the rights to Burning Sands of Ivory Kingdoms IP, those are still the border countries of Rokugan. They will I bet be used, but with non already trademarked names. 

Wait, they went with Portuga? Well, there goes my chance of convincing anyone to take this game seriously...

Edited by Suzume Chikahisa
typo

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5 hours ago, Yogo Rye X said:

Lets hope they dont start implementing the Kage system and use of modern equipment like cellphones and ninja tools. ?

Hey, that could lead to some interesting cards...

Sexy Jutsu - Neutral Attachment 

4 Fate / +1 Mil / +1 Pol

Jutsu. Illusion.

Action: During a conflict in which the attached character is participating, bow this attachment - bow all participating characters who identify as male that your opponents control. Then, take 1 honor from each opponent who had a character bowed by this effect. 

Shadow Clone - Neutral Conflict Character

3 Fate / 0 Mil / 0 Pol

Shinobi. Illusion. 

Reaction: When this character enters play, choose another shinobi character you control - this character gains Mil and Pol skill equal to that character's printed skill values. 

Forced Interrupt: When this character would be bowed, discard the character instead. 

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What ever happened to the Gozoku in the old lore? I don't recall the resolution of that storyline  (unless it was Kurohito cutting his wife's head off and committing seppuku). A similar "threat" COULD be more interesting than an outright coup...

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13 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

What ever happened to the Gozoku in the old lore? I don't recall the resolution of that storyline  (unless it was Kurohito cutting his wife's head off and committing seppuku). A similar "threat" COULD be more interesting than an outright coup...

Well, I'm Reading the 4th Ed. RPG books, and according to those, the Gozoku was dismantled when the Dragon- and Lion-backed Empress Yugozohime challenged her (Gozoku puppet) brother for the Throne, and won. She then either executed or allowed the Crane Clan leader of the Gozoku to commit seppuku.

The Phoenix Clan Gozoku leader recognizes that the game is up, and surrenders; in return for sparing his life, he helps dismantle the organization. The Scorpion Clan leader refuses to surrender, sparking a quick and quiet civil war among the Scorpion, that ends after the Gozoku-supporters leader is found dead in her chambers. The last leader of the Gozoku is brought before the Empress and executed.

There were some survivors, most prominently the Gozoku-created Nasu family as vassals to the Phoenix Clans Shiba family, but other than that, I don't know how many survived.

Edited by Mangod

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5 hours ago, Mangod said:

Well, I'm Reading the 4th Ed. RPG books, and according to those, the Gozoku was dismantled when the Dragon- and Lion-backed Empress Yugozohime challenged her (Gozoku puppet) brother for the Throne, and won. She then either executed or allowed the Crane Clan leader of the Gozoku to commit seppuku.

The Phoenix Clan Gozoku leader recognizes that the game is up, and surrenders; in return for sparing his Life, he helps dismantle the organization. The Scorpion Clan leader refuses to surrender, sparking a quick and quiet civil war among the Scorpion, that ends after the Gozoku-supporters leader is found dead in her chambers. The last leader of the Gozoku is brought before the Empress and executed.

There were some survivors, most prominently the Gozoku-created Nasu family as vassals to the Phoenix Clans Shiba family, but other than that, I don't know how many survived.

Erm, wasn't the Scorpion Gozoku leader Bayushi Atsuki?

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28 minutes ago, SirEuain said:

Erm, wasn't the Scorpion Gozoku leader Bayushi Atsuki?

Yes. However, he had "officially" retired from his position as the Scorpion Clan Champion, leaving the position to his daughter Minoko while he continued to serve as a leader of the Gozoku. When the Empress ordered his arrest, his daughter refused to hand him over, which sparked the internal conflict that ended with his daughter dead, Bayushi Junzen (one of Atsuki's old rivals) becoming the new Champion, and the old and sickly Atsuki getting handed over to the Empress for execution.

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2 hours ago, Mangod said:

Yes. However, he had "officially" retired from his position as the Scorpion Clan Champion, leaving the position to his daughter Minoko while he continued to serve as a leader of the Gozoku. When the Empress ordered his arrest, his daughter refused to hand him over, which sparked the internal conflict that ended with his daughter dead, Bayushi Junzen (one of Atsuki's old rivals) becoming the new Champion, and the old and sickly Atsuki getting handed over to the Empress for execution.

Meh. Atsuki 2.0 was a waste of a plotline anyway. 

 

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3 hours ago, SirEuain said:

Meh. Atsuki 2.0 was a waste of a plotline anyway. 

 

The idea of a second Gozoku, though, actually has some merit. Assuming that the Nasu still exist among the Phoenix, and since we're currently in the "Era of Declining Virtue" according to the Pure Land Sect, and how members of the Emperor's own court are doubting him... a resurgence of the Gozoku belief that the Emperor isn't the infallible Son of Heaven, but rather just another mortal who happens to descends from Hantei no Kami, and thus just as prone to failure as any mortal...

Yeah, I could actually see another Gozoku Conspiracy happening. It'd also allow for more Phoenix stories, since the second Gozoku would probably originate from there, which would no doubt please Shiba Gunichi. ;)

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22 hours ago, Mangod said:

The idea of a second Gozoku, though, actually has some merit. Assuming that the Nasu still exist among the Phoenix, and since we're currently in the "Era of Declining Virtue" according to the Pure Land Sect, and how members of the Emperor's own court are doubting him... a resurgence of the Gozoku belief that the Emperor isn't the infallible Son of Heaven, but rather just another mortal who happens to descends from Hantei no Kami, and thus just as prone to failure as any mortal...

Yeah, I could actually see another Gozoku Conspiracy happening. It'd also allow for more Phoenix stories, since the second Gozoku would probably originate from there, which would no doubt please Shiba Gunichi. ;)

Is the suggestion that the Phoenix clamped down on the Pure Land so brutally because they wanted to hide their links to it and the foundation of the new Gozoku?  In that case, Ujimitsu dies "untimely" to cover up the Council of Five's complicity?

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Better Gozoku ("We know best, of course we do!") than Maho- the one actually plays to Phoenix hubris in a way that isn't as blindingly terrible an idea- you can see the Phoenix going Gozioku without wondering where all the protest seppuku went.

It allows for villainy based on the clan's virtues as much as its flaws, which is far more compelling...

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On 5/20/2018 at 1:40 AM, HirumaShigure said:

Maybe it's Jesuit monks trying to visit Rokugan and they forgot the "L" at the end of Portuga?

Portuga and or Tuga are self-deprecating terms for the Portuguese. I mean there are a few who unashamedly call themselves that, but they are the reason the rest of us tend to use it as a sel-deprecating term.

Looking at that is a bit like having a country called Usian whose language is Redneck for the lack of a better comparison.

And if you you go for Brasilian Portuguese it is far more frequently used as an actual pejorative.

Also if Rokugani was in any way similar to Japanese it would be caled Porutogaru...

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