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LordBlunt

“If you do this, a bloodline will end.”

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3 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

Did they give a date somewhere?

I was going by the old timeline and what has happen so far. 

Understood. Yes, the date is 1123; since I'm one of the writers, I kinda need to know the date! That said, I'm not sure where in the various stuff published so far where it actually SAYS its 1123 publicly, but I can assure you it is. The story background documentation FFG provides us, that we work from, specifies that.

But don't try to read very much, from the old story's events of 1123 into this new story's version of 1123. As has been noted on here, there are already substantial departures from the old story. The new story very much has its own trajectory, so the events around, for example, the Scorpion Clan Coup of the old canon by no means necessarily apply to what's happening now and in the new future for the Empire.

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2 hours ago, DGLaderoute said:

Understood. Yes, the date is 1123; since I'm one of the writers, I kinda need to know the date! That said, I'm not sure where in the various stuff published so far where it actually SAYS its 1123 publicly, but I can assure you it is. The story background documentation FFG provides us, that we work from, specifies that.

Shame on you, sir! How can you not know where in the fiction they publicly say the date? It was on your Court Games fiction, when opening the court session:

"The tenth day of the month of Akodo, in the year 1123"

As punishment for not remembering, now go write two fictions about the Phoenix! I want them at my desk next week, tops!

 

Edited by Tabris2k

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3 hours ago, Manchu said:

Writing Phoenix fiction is a punishment?

:D

No. The punishment is having to cope with Phoenix fanbase after handing them down the fiction. Nearly half of it will love it, the other half will hate it... and there’s still room for some Phoenix players wanting more maho in it. And you can be sure we will argue about it. Oh, how we will we argue. For weeks, for months, even for years....

Yeah, we’re not easy to please. 

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LOL...right you are. I consider myself hoisted on my own petard. My only excuse is I've written a lot, am writing a lot MORE, and kinda lost track. In fact, I have to go back and reread my own stuff to see what I've already said, to remain consistent with myself!

And I'd happily write some Phoenix fiction...it just hasn't worked out that way (yet).

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2 hours ago, Tabris2k said:

No. The punishment is having to cope with Phoenix fanbase after handing them down the fiction. Nearly half of it will love it, the other half will hate it... and there’s still room for some Phoenix players wanting more maho in it. And you can be sure we will argue about it. Oh, how we will we argue. For weeks, for months, even for years....

Yeah, we’re not easy to please. 

I'm pretty sure the Phoenix players will be disappointed if they ended up with a fiction they all enjoy. What are they going to argue about?

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9 hours ago, Tetsuhiko said:

I'm pretty sure the Phoenix players will be disappointed if they ended up with a fiction they all enjoy. What are they going to argue about?

I can honestly say if the Phoenix fanbase ever got united behind something, we'd be utterly baffled. We're so used to internal strife (admittedly, a big part of that was that AEG's treatment of the Phoenix was all over the friggin' place- depending on when you started paying attention, you could have very, very different reasons for going Firechicken) we might well be shocked into tonic immobility.


Funny how the fanbase reflects the clan that way...

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On 2/18/2018 at 8:59 AM, Tabris2k said:

And all the times the Phoenix went “Oooh, look, Maho. Let’s play with it!” was because some players used corrupted/tainted decks and won with them. 

Not the first time. The first time, ICly, Tadaka thought he was doing everyone a favor by opening the Black Scrolls, and then the stronghold was rewritten to show how Phoenix shugenja were dabbling in corruption (and initially, weren't losing honor for using the Shadowlands clause on the stronghold). The players went along with it because the game was new, and didn't realize they were playing into Fu Leng's hands. 

The game was still new. The impact of players was still something that Wick and AEG were working on, and it essentially wasn't until the Crab players as a whole refused to play corrupt (and got rewarded for it) that anyone knew it was possible for the players to affect the story without winning a story tournament.

And then, as the Crab threw off their alliance with the Shadowlands, the Phoenix players kept at it because they thought the downside was the Obsidian era stronghold MRP that removed the honor gains for corrupting a shugenja to bring it into play. Then a little later, the Day of Thunder kicked the Phoenix over.

 

 

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13 hours ago, SirEuain said:

Not the first time. The first time, ICly, Tadaka thought he was doing everyone a favor by opening the Black Scrolls, and then the stronghold was rewritten to show how Phoenix shugenja were dabbling in corruption (and initially, weren't losing honor for using the Shadowlands clause on the stronghold). The players went along with it because the game was new, and didn't realize they were playing into Fu Leng's hands.

In fairness... he was.

Fu Leng couldn't be defeated until all of the scrolls were opened- and it wasn't until the Elemental Council popped those things open like cheap beers at a college party that anyone but maybe Togashi and the Hooded Ronin really knew about the prophecy of the Seven Thunders.

Mind you, having most of the maho in the CCG be shugenja-specific was always going to leave the Phoenix as the heaviest users, which was always kind of stupid. (In RPG-land, much of the point of maho was that one didn't need to be a shugenja to use it).

And, in what was to become a truly depressing motif for almost all of AEG's run, the pattern was set for the Phoenix to be smacked in the face by anything they tried to do.

Quote

The game was still new. The impact of players was still something that Wick and AEG were working on, and it essentially wasn't until the Crab players as a whole refused to play corrupt (and got rewarded for it) that anyone knew it was possible for the players to affect the story without winning a story tournament.

And then, as the Crab threw off their alliance with the Shadowlands, the Phoenix players kept at it because they thought the downside was the Obsidian era stronghold MRP that removed the honor gains for corrupting a shugenja to bring it into play. Then a little later, the Day of Thunder kicked the Phoenix over.

Ah, for the days of, "you guys got so nuked by your own leadership that you're taking literally any shugenja who wants in." Good times.

Edited by Shiba Gunichi

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Remember AEG used the coup to send the scorpion to the burning sands and start up a second card game. If FFG doesn't intend on doing that the desire to remove one of the clans will be greatly reduced (though I would like to see the Burning Sands, Thrane, Yodotai, etc...) 

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7 minutes ago, Jedi samurai said:

Remember AEG used the coup to send the scorpion to the burning sands and start up a second card game. If FFG doesn't intend on doing that the desire to remove one of the clans will be greatly reduced (though I would like to see the Burning Sands, Thrane, Yodotai, etc...) 

  You're a bit off on the timeline there. The Scorpion Clan Coup was pre-Clan Wars, and led to the Scorpion being simply destroyed. A few scattered members survived and did their thing - Kachiko as Imperial Consort, Aramoro as her servant, and a few others. 

  During Hidden Emperor, after Clan War, with Toturi on the throne, Toturi vanished and the Scorpion were blamed. At this point, they were disbanded again, and this time they went into exile in the Burning Sands. It was a bit too much of a repeat of the setup for Clan Wars, and didn't prove to be one of their best stories, despite leaving us with several very memorable moments.

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4 minutes ago, agarrett said:

  You're a bit off on the timeline there. The Scorpion Clan Coup was pre-Clan Wars, and led to the Scorpion being simply destroyed. A few scattered members survived and did their thing - Kachiko as Imperial Consort, Aramoro as her servant, and a few others. 

  During Hidden Emperor, after Clan War, with Toturi on the throne, Toturi vanished and the Scorpion were blamed. At this point, they were disbanded again, and this time they went into exile in the Burning Sands. It was a bit too much of a repeat of the setup for Clan Wars, and didn't prove to be one of their best stories, despite leaving us with several very memorable moments.

Yes - it was just hte bayushi after the coup and the rest of hte clan later on - however I think the point still stands and FFG won't split up the characters and clans, use them launch other products etc... 

 

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Part of the reason I find the debate on the Scorpion Clan Coup interesting is that I am curious how you can start the Clan War without it.

In order to create the Clan War, you need EVERY GREAT CLAN willing to make total war against every other Great Clan. In the terms of Master Tiger (AKA Hobbes), bellum omnia contra omnes. To achieve this, you have to dismantle the power structures which prevent this. The Scorpion Clan and the Imperial dynasty are two of these forces. Having them severely damage each other destabilizes the situation. Just the same, you cannot have the rise of the Shadowlands without the corruption or destruction of the Crab Clan and Phoenix Clan, as they are the forces in the Empire which will stop that. The main question, and the answers I am looking forward to, is seeing HOW these things happen in the new storyline.

If FFG chooses to go a different route than the Clan War, I will likely be a little bit disappointed. 

Edited by sndwurks

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16 hours ago, Jedi samurai said:

Remember AEG used the coup to send the scorpion to the burning sands and start up a second card game. If FFG doesn't intend on doing that the desire to remove one of the clans will be greatly reduced (though I would like to see the Burning Sands, Thrane, Yodotai, etc...) 

FFG have stated (iirc it was Katrina or Brad) that they do not own the Burning Sands IP.  They did not buy it when they bought L5R.

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8 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

FFG have stated (iirc it was Katrina or Brad) that they do not own the Burning Sands IP.  They did not buy it when they bought L5R.

but they must own SOME of the other cultures in the world, haven't a couple of them been mentioned on fictions? 

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2 hours ago, Jedi samurai said:

but they must own SOME of the other cultures in the world, haven't a couple of them been mentioned on fictions? 

  Many other cultures have been mentioned in fictions. I don't know any details of the sale, and what FFG owns or doesn't. Still, my advice is to stay away from other cultures. The isolation of Rokugan is part of who they are. The eternal backbiting and fighting within the clans is exacerbated by the lack of an external enemy (which is why AEG's regular outside enemy attacks fictions wound up damaging the world, aside from being repetitive.) The Shadowlands is still there, but they're not such an overt threat most of the time - unless you're a Crab, of course ;)

 The old AEG line worked really well, where Rokugan knew gaijin cultures existed. They'd fought them, and won, centuries ago, thus proving their inevitable and obvious superiority, and now they'd just put them out of their minds and never concern themselves with them again. And then the bloody Unicorn had to come back and spoil all that - unforgivable, really.

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