Victory II-class Focused List

[KrisWall 966]

Hello all,

I've posted multiple Vic lists before.  I've got a new one that I'm looking for feedback on.  I've historically run multiple Vics with just Disposable Capacitors and Dual Turbolaser Turrets.  I'm trying to add a bit of punch using some old standbys plus a new Wave VII card.

• 394 Points
• Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85)
  • Admiral Motti (24)
  • Taskmaster Grint (5)
  • Disposable Capacitors (3)
  • Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85)
  • Quad Battery Turrets (5)
  • Disposable Capacitors (3)
  • Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
  • Gunnery Team (7)
• Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85)
  • Quad Battery Turrets (5)
  • Disposable Capacitors (3)
  • Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
  • Gunnery Team (7)
• Gozanti-class Cruiser (23)
  • Repair Crews (4)
• Gozanti-class Cruiser (23)
  • Repair Crews (4)
• Advanced Gunnery, Contested Outpost, Solar Corona

The goal would be to flank the flagship with the two jazzed up Vics and fly the Gozantis in behind for repair.  The flagship would probably spam Engineering with Grint to repair 3 shields or drop 2 damage every turn, making sure Motti stays alive throughout the game.

I'm adding Heavy Ion Emplacements from the Profundity/MC75 kit.  It looks to be a potentially great card.  On a blue crit, it strips one shield from the target hull zone and each adjacent zone.  In the early game, that's basically an extra 3 damage on the attack.  Three blue dice give me a 57.8% chance to get a blue crit and trigger Heavy Ion Emplacements.  With Gunnery Teams and taking two shots, there is an 82.2% chance that one of them will be able to make use of HIE.

Motti + Grint + spammed Engineering means the flagship will be pretty hard to kill.  The two Repair Crew Gozantis will tend to the others and generally mill around.  If needed, I can span Engineering on all three Vics.  Generally speaking, I'd spam Concentrated Fire on the two jazzed up ones for a potential 8 dice out the front.

Thoughts?  I realize this is weak against bomber heavy lists.  If you have actual advice on how to deal with bombers, I'd love to hear it.  If you're planning on telling me that this list will auto-lose against anyone with squadrons or anyone who refuses to engage, I'm all good.  Heard it before and it hasn't been my experience.

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

Tua+RBDs might do more than Grint, given that you can still repair/ navigate. Looks fun, I’ll have to try this.

[TallGiraffe 3,447]

I would prefer Leading shots over HIE. Gives you 10 points to mess with. Maybe put 7th Fleet on 2 of the Destroyers.

[Norell 1,198]

Leadig shots instead of HIE for sure.

With Vics every one of your front arc shot count as there may not be many of them. And without a way to reroll, those red dice can be really cruel to you...

[KrisWall 966]

11 hours ago, Norell said:

Leadig shots instead of HIE for sure.

With Vics every one of your front arc shot count as there may not be many of them. And without a way to reroll, those red dice can be really cruel to you...

I'm torn on this.  Yes, Leading Shots is cheaper and yes it let's you do a selective re-roll...  but it does cost you a die.  HIE is potentially worth 3 damage.  I know it's risky, but fortune favors the bold, right?  I think I'm going to play a few games with HIE and then a few with LS.  It's a tough call situation because the math is so dependent on your ability to set up shots.  Without consistent targets, I think LS is better.  If you can consistently line up overlapping front arcs, I think HIE will take down ships quicker.  I tend to fly in formation, so I think overlapping front arcs is a reasonable expectation.

HIEs are so dang expensive.

[ImpStarDeuces 526]

If you really want to make HIEs work you need a dice mod mechanic. So Screed or Vader.

[KrisWall 966]

42 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

If you really want to make HIEs work you need a dice mod mechanic. So Screed or Vader.

I was thinking about Screed.  I don't like Vader given that the Vics only have three defense tokens.  The opportunity cost being an 8 hull drop across my fleet.  Motti effectively adds an extra Vic's worth of hull for my opponent to chew through.  Screed ups the chance that I'll get a blue crit.  I already have a pretty solid chance of rolling a blue crit as is on one of my two shots each turn.

[TallGiraffe 3,447]

6 hours ago, KrisWall said:

I'm torn on this.  Yes, Leading Shots is cheaper and yes it let's you do a selective re-roll...  but it does cost you a die.  HIE is potentially worth 3 damage.  I know it's risky, but fortune favors the bold, right?  I think I'm going to play a few games with HIE and then a few with LS.  It's a tough call situation because the math is so dependent on your ability to set up shots.  Without consistent targets, I think LS is better.  If you can consistently line up overlapping front arcs, I think HIE will take down ships quicker.  I tend to fly in formation, so I think overlapping front arcs is a reasonable expectation.

HIEs are so dang expensive.

Yea HIE is 3 damage. 3 shield damage. On 3 different arcs. And if you roll 2 blanks on your red dice and say 2 accuracies. Then what?

[Englishpete 1,379]

I to am a lover of the Vic. I think you get more mileage from Screed if you are going to run HIE's. You really want that crit to land and if your opponent has lost all their shields you can still take a normal crit. I am a trying running as gunships with a new list and I wouldn't run it without Screed.

Name: Victory or Death
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault: Targeting Beacons
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

Victory II (85)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 139 Points

Victory II (85)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 110 Points

Victory II (85)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 110 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Gamma Squadron (10)
= 40 Points

Total Points: 399

[Democratus 1,698]

There's a reason the GT/DC/QBT build is so common. It works!
Add in 7th Fleet for a little more defensive oomph.

 

Name: What Price Victory?
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

Victory II (85)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
= 133 Points

Victory II (85)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
= 109 Points

Victory II (85)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5)
= 109 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
= 23 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 399

Edited February 14, 2018 by Democratus

[KrisWall 966]

14 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Yea HIE is 3 damage. 3 shield damage. On 3 different arcs. And if you roll 2 blanks on your red dice and say 2 accuracies. Then what?

Well...  given that you'll only get 2 blanks and 2 accuracies on 4 red dice about 0.1% of the time...  I'm willing to take the risk.  Generally speaking, you'll roll 3-4 damage on 4 red dice.

I do like the NK-7 idea.  Expensive upgrade, but it's nasty if it goes off early.

[KrisWall 966]

13 hours ago, Englishpete said:

I to am a lover of the Vic. I think you get more mileage from Screed if you are going to run HIE's. You really want that crit to land and if your opponent has lost all their shields you can still take a normal crit. I am a trying running as gunships with a new list and I wouldn't run it without Screed.

Name: Victory or Death
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault: Targeting Beacons
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

Victory II (85)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 139 Points

Victory II (85)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 110 Points

Victory II (85)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 110 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Gamma Squadron (10)
= 40 Points

Total Points: 399

So...  for Intel Officer and NK-7 versus something like an ISD.  Would you Intel Officer the Brace and then trigger NK-7?  I guess the opponent would drop a Redirect/Contain to NK-7 and then get at least one use out of the Brace before it goes away?

I might try this combination with Screed.  It seems super nasty.

[Englishpete 1,379]

2 hours ago, KrisWall said:

So...  for Intel Officer and NK-7 versus something like an ISD.  Would you Intel Officer the Brace and then trigger NK-7?  I guess the opponent would drop a Redirect/Contain to NK-7 and then get at least one use out of the Brace before it goes away?

I might try this combination with Screed.  It seems super nasty.

Intel Officer would trigger first and I would certainly take the brace. Only a DCO can stop the NK-7 as it is a special crit. The other way to stop it is to force a reroll the most likely being an Evade token. Most of the time though you'll get 2 blue crits, one from a natural roll and one from Screed so its a solid investment.

[KrisWall 966]

13 minutes ago, Englishpete said:

Intel Officer would trigger first and I would certainly take the brace. Only a DCO can stop the NK-7 as it is a special crit. The other way to stop it is to force a reroll the most likely being an Evade token. Most of the time though you'll get 2 blue crits, one from a natural roll and one from Screed so its a solid investment.

I'm going to give it a shot this weekend.  Being able to mitigate defense tokens would have to make Vic shooting a lot scarier.

[KrisWall 966]

I think this is the fleet I'll try running this weekend.

• Admiral Motti, Taskmaster Grint and the two Repair Crew Gozantis should do pretty well to keep me alive.
• Quad Battery Turrets plus a Concentrated Fire command gives me 5 blue dice.  The odds are pretty good of getting at least one crit in there...  76.2% to be exact.  I won't get one every shot, but an average of 3 out of 4 shots isn't bad.  If I miss the shot I want the crit for, I can try for a second shot.  The odds improve to 92.5% that at least one of the two shots gets a crit and triggers NK-7.
• Fly in tight formation with the Gozantis in the rear and the flagship a little behind the other two Vics.  Try to set up overlapping front arc shots.  Three side by side Vics have an enormous combined front arc.  The NK-7 Vics try to go first to clear some defense tokens from the primary target.  Motti follows up with what I hope is a kill shot.
• Hope the opponent doesn't bring bombers.  Normal squadrons are annoying, but take down one Vic at best over the course of several rounds.  If they do, fire anti-squadron with every ship every turn.  That's 2-3 blue dice against each squadron each turn if I'm lucky.

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

Victory II (85)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Taskmaster Grint (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
= 122 Points

Victory II (85)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 110 Points

Victory II (85)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 110 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Repair Crews (4)
= 27 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Repair Crews (4)
= 27 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 396

[Englishpete 1,379]

It's a ballsy list for sure. No squads in my local meta is a death sentence though.

[AlexW 2,902]

On 2/13/2018 at 7:27 PM, TallGiraffe said:

Yea HIE is 3 damage. 3 shield damage. On 3 different arcs. And if you roll 2 blanks on your red dice and say 2 accuracies. Then what?

It’s got some hidden value though, in that it quickly lowers the effectivenss of redirect, especially when you have another ship firing in the same arc.

[KrisWall 966]

11 hours ago, Englishpete said:

It's a ballsy list for sure. No squads in my local meta is a death sentence though.

My local meta is different.  I recently won a 12 person tournament with a no squadron list.

[SpaceC0wboy 69]

I have 3 Vics and desperately want to make them work. My big issue is their maneuverability. How do you make them work without Moff Jerjerrod?

 

[KrisWall 966]

Lots of practice.  I think I fly Vics better than the average bear at this point.  Fly them in tight formation and practice until you can reliably move without bumping into each other.  I put three on my coffee table one day while watching a movie (Rogue One!) and practiced maneuvers for about 2 hours.  I deploy them about 2-3 cm apart and rarely bump myself throughout an entire game.  Occasionally, I'll bump on purpose to maintain a firing arc.  You also really need to anticipate where your enemy is headed and start pointing that direction about 3 turns early. 

Deployment is very important.  Solar Corona helps.  Contested Outpost also helps because any veteran player could probably predict deployment for both fleets with that mission.  Advanced Gunnery is a wild card.  If you deploy pointed in the wrong direction, you're in trouble.  You'll want Nav commands for turns 1 and 2.  That lets you change speed and bank a token at the start of the game.  After that, stack Engineering if you're worried or Concentrated Fire if you're feeling frisky.

[Lobokai 1,518]

Big fan of triple VSDs. In old WW2 naval games I’d run Kongo and her sisters... very similar feel. Good ideas above. Thanks guys

[KrisWall 966]

I ended up playing a Screed variant with NK-7s.  Total waste of time for me.  I used the Screed effect once only.  I also don't like Gozanti/Repair Crews.  It's hard to keep them close enough to be effective.  If you're taking multiple Vics, I think you take JJ if you don't think you can maneuver properly or Motti in all other instances.  I also think you just focus on damage and ignore critical effects other than the standard one.

I think most people will give me Solar Corona if I'm second player.  Contested Outpost is super easy for multiple Vic lists to win.  Opening Salvo would be fun, but that would mean each Vic would get to fire 3 Red, 3 Blue and 3 Black (assuming a Concentrated Fire Command) at long range as their first shot.  With the XI7s and Leading Shots to fix the rolls, I think most people won't want to deal with that.

The Gozantis are there for activations and tokens.  Against a mean list, all three Vics stack Engineering and with Grint/Gozanti tokens are able to heal 3 shields or 2 hull every turn.  Against a softer list, the Gozantis pass forward Navigate or Concentrated Fire as needed.

• Triple Vics Fleet (394 total)
• Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85) (134 total)
  • Admiral Motti (24)
  • Taskmaster Grint (5)
  • Gunnery Team (7)
  • Disposable Capacitors (3)
  • XI7 Turbolasers (6)
  • Leading Shots (4)
• Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85) (105 total)
  • Gunnery Team (7)
  • Disposable Capacitors (3)
  • XI7 Turbolasers (6)
  • Leading Shots (4)
• Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85) (105 total)
  • Gunnery Team (7)
  • Disposable Capacitors (3)
  • XI7 Turbolasers (6)
  • Leading Shots (4)
• Gozanti Cruisers (23) (25 total)
  • Comms Net (2)
• Gozanti Cruisers (23) (25 total)
  • Comms Net (2)
• Contested Outpost, Opening Salvo, Solar Corona

[Englishpete 1,379]

I tried NK-7's and was underwhelmed, HIE's are better, but Xi-7's over Quads and JJ over Screed. HIE's become a gamble without direct access to ensuring a crit and I think the 27 points in a 3 VSD list is better spent elsewhere.

 

Even with DCaps and JJ, the VSD still suffers from maintaining optimal medium range. Medium being optimal in bringing all you dice to bear, whilst keeping your enemies black dice of off you.

 

Still keep trying. Never give up on the old warhorse.

[Lobokai 1,518]

What's better on a Tau VSD carrying your commander?  EWS or Blast Doors or Redundant Shields?  ...or something else?

[The Jabbawookie 5,613]

ECM. Sometimes RBDs (alright with Motti, or when squadrons are the biggest concern.) Redundant shields is expensive and takes your modification, preventing QBT usage. Can’t offer a solid opinion on EWS yet, but it has to be pretty good to edge out ECM.