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Stormbourne

armour attachment: crystal weave (revamp)

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okay so i found some loose president for items like this to be in game but i was only a single line and further research didn't yield anything solid but still think this would be cool

Price

Restricted

Rarity

Required HP

Base Effect

Mods

25000

Yes

10

3

When making a force check may dedicate C equal to the powers force rating to sustain the basic effect, suffer 1 strain per turn per C

2 “may grant the same effect to an engaged ally” mods

so yea ideas, criticism, improvements and what not are all welcome

OLD IDEAS

 

Price

Restricted

Rarity

Required HP

Special

Base effect

Mods

19,000

Yes

9

3

When installing make a hard astrogation check if successful choose one skill

CommitC: add success to chosen skill (cannot activate multiple times)

2 “add advantage to chosen skill” mods

 

Price

Restricted

Rarity

Required HP

Base effect

Mods

19,000

Yes

9

3

Commit C: add to all rolls (cannot commit more then one C)

2 “add advantage to combined force power checks” mods

Edited by Stormbourne

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1 hour ago, TheSapient said:

I'd like to read your analysis of this from both a lore and a mechanics perspective.  How does it fit into the universe?  Are there examples of this in canon or legends?  How did you arrive at the cost?

mechanics and cost both come from the same answer: kyber crystals (2x the cost of illum to be exact), lore wise no 1:1 parallel but few loose connections like the jed'ii tradition of using a kyber, a sword, and a force sensitive being to make all three act as one, granting the sword in the hands of the maker lightsaber-esk qualities

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My question about mechanics was in relation to game mechanics.  How do you think this did in with established game mechanics.  Is it priced comparably to other items with comparable mechanical advantage?  

You could, for example, consider how much better this is than Empty Soul, then find items that have that level of similarity to other talents and consider how expensive those talents are.

This does have the problem of basically guaranteeing the results of a force check.  For a high level force user, they would always be able to have an effective result.  As written, I would not allow it in my game anymore than I would allow Empty Soul to be taken multiple times.

Is this supposed to be made out of Kyber crystals?  They tend to explode if broken.  The idea of Kyber crystals as a force filter is....interesting.  I don't know if it makes sense, but I'm not opposed to it.

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12 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

My question about mechanics was in relation to game mechanics.  How do you think this did in with established game mechanics.  Is it priced comparably to other items with comparable mechanical advantage?  

You could, for example, consider how much better this is than Empty Soul, then find items that have that level of similarity to other talents and consider how expensive those talents are.

This does have the problem of basically guaranteeing the results of a force check.  For a high level force user, they would always be able to have an effective result.  As written, I would not allow it in my game anymore than I would allow Empty Soul to be taken multiple times.

Is this supposed to be made out of Kyber crystals?  They tend to explode if broken.  The idea of Kyber crystals as a force filter is....interesting.  I don't know if it makes sense, but I'm not opposed to it.

while the ability is similar to empty soul and one with the universe, it's less of a have extra pips and more stabilises on dice and i just realised that i didn't make it clear that is can be activated once

well if exploding is a problem for kybers then how about hard mechanics to install

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So basically this adds a Force die to everything for 20k. As I see no reason not to commit the die as "all rolls" also include other Force Power rolls presumably? Honestly Passive Force Dice to skills are one of the best things you can do with your force dices. They give huge flexibility.

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43 minutes ago, Xelian said:

So basically this adds a Force die to everything for 20k. As I see no reason not to commit the die as "all rolls" also include other Force Power rolls presumably? Honestly Passive Force Dice to skills are one of the best things you can do with your force dices. They give huge flexibility.

this adds a pip to all force rolls including combined power checks yes, but takes away one force dice. so in essence it stabilizes one force dice, you can't roll ○○ nor can you roll any ●, you get some mild consistency 

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I'm not sure if this is better or worse to be honest. The Force die have 7 black sides and only 5 white. So that's a sure success on everything. Or advantage if you don't need the success. On the other side the attachment requires 3 HP which is quite a lot so I don't know.

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The core problem with this is that it turns the committed Force die into a guaranteed light side Force point every round and for every usage of a Force power, since it impacts "all rolls" and a Force power check is a "roll."  Which breaks on of the game's core design tenets in that calling upon the Force (i.e. rolling a Force die) should never be a "guaranteed thing" and that there's always some element of temptation to draw upon the dark side (i.e. use black pips), especially for PCs on the lower-end of the Force Rating spectrum.

It only serves to make a Force user with Force Rating 2+ even more powerful, since they can commit one Force dice for a guaranteed Force Point (since most PCs are going to be using white pips to generate Force points by default) and still have a die to roll for Force power checks.

Sorry, but this fails the "stinky cheese" test as there's almost no reason for a PC that focuses on heavy Force usage to not make use of this attachment, especially since Keeping the Peace offers armor options that have plenty of hard points, making the 3HP this attachment requires almost trivial.

Admittedly it's an improvement over power power-gaming munchkinism of some of your earlier offerings, but it's still a game-breaker since as I said there's very little reason for a PC not to take this attachment, especially with the option for free Advantages on checks such as for Influence's "mind trick" control upgrade or Protect/Unleash.

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Just now, TheSapient said:

But how do you come to that conclusion?  

Well, if you compare it to some of his earlier efforts, this one is fairly tame.  So by that metric, it's a "mid-tier" attachment.

Granted, compared to all of the attachments that FFG has thus far published, this is still a game-breaker, so it's all a matter of perspective.

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18 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Well, if you compare it to some of his earlier efforts, this one is fairly tame.  So by that metric, it's a "mid-tier" attachment.

Granted, compared to all of the attachments that FFG has thus far published, this is still a game-breaker, so it's all a matter of perspective.

if you compare this to my other works this is the lowest power of all of them

20 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

But how do you come to that conclusion?  

personal preference, there are other attachments that i would install before this but it is still on my list of consideration

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I would disallow any item that guaranteed a force pip. Anything that allows a PC to pay credits for an automatic success on a random roll breaks the spirit of the force rules as written, as it now offers a PC the ability to never have to take conflict to succeed at a given use of the force. 

Committing a force die is supposed to remove it from the pool a character has available to generate pips for other uses. That is the mechanic; it dilutes their potency by splitting their focus. They get some other specified benefit, but it is no longer in use to help with other force powers. It may upgrade an enemy's attack difficulty, upgrade the PC's Vigilance and Perception checks, or maintain a power that they already rolled for (and opened themselves up to potential conflict from), but it does not take a force die and essentially lay it on the table with one white force pip showing no matter what for every other roll for the rest of the session. 

As far as the power level of such an attachment, it is far more game altering than Cortosis Weave, almost to the point where such an item should be a unique force artifact. 

If this were an artifact, I would allow it to grant a character the ability to change the facing on a force die once per session, using the same guidelines as the Smuggler Signature Ability - so this would take a Destiny Point at the minimum (probably two), be limited to one use in a session, and restrict the change to a facing on the die adjacent to one that was rolled. Finding such an artifact would be the focus of a campaign, and if the PC succeeded in finding it, the rest of their adventuring days would be plagued by other ridiculously powerful force users trying to take it from them by any means available. 

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10 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

The core problem with this is that it turns the committed Force die into a guaranteed light side Force point every round and for every usage of a Force power, since it impacts "all rolls" and a Force power check is a "roll."  Which breaks on of the game's core design tenets in that calling upon the Force (i.e. rolling a Force die) should never be a "guaranteed thing" and that there's always some element of temptation to draw upon the dark side (i.e. use black pips), especially for PCs on the lower-end of the Force Rating spectrum.

It only serves to make a Force user with Force Rating 2+ even more powerful, since they can commit one Force dice for a guaranteed Force Point (since most PCs are going to be using white pips to generate Force points by default) and still have a die to roll for Force power checks.

Sorry, but this fails the "stinky cheese" test as there's almost no reason for a PC that focuses on heavy Force usage to not make use of this attachment, especially since Keeping the Peace offers armor options that have plenty of hard points, making the 3HP this attachment requires almost trivial.

Admittedly it's an improvement over power power-gaming munchkinism of some of your earlier offerings, but it's still a game-breaker since as I said there's very little reason for a PC not to take this attachment, especially with the option for free Advantages on checks such as for Influence's "mind trick" control upgrade or Protect/Unleash.

 

7 hours ago, JRRP said:

I would disallow any item that guaranteed a force pip. Anything that allows a PC to pay credits for an automatic success on a random roll breaks the spirit of the force rules as written, as it now offers a PC the ability to never have to take conflict to succeed at a given use of the force. 

Committing a force die is supposed to remove it from the pool a character has available to generate pips for other uses. That is the mechanic; it dilutes their potency by splitting their focus. They get some other specified benefit, but it is no longer in use to help with other force powers. It may upgrade an enemy's attack difficulty, upgrade the PC's Vigilance and Perception checks, or maintain a power that they already rolled for (and opened themselves up to potential conflict from), but it does not take a force die and essentially lay it on the table with one white force pip showing no matter what for every other roll for the rest of the session. 

As far as the power level of such an attachment, it is far more game altering than Cortosis Weave, almost to the point where such an item should be a unique force artifact. 

If this were an artifact, I would allow it to grant a character the ability to change the facing on a force die once per session, using the same guidelines as the Smuggler Signature Ability - so this would take a Destiny Point at the minimum (probably two), be limited to one use in a session, and restrict the change to a facing on the die adjacent to one that was rolled. Finding such an artifact would be the focus of a campaign, and if the PC succeeded in finding it, the rest of their adventuring days would be plagued by other ridiculously powerful force users trying to take it from them by any means available. 

 

okay how about:

commit FD: when commiting force dice choose a skill, when rolling that skill add a success to the roll

mods: 2 "when rolling chosen skill add additional advantage" mods

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32 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

 

 

okay how about:

commit FD: when commiting force dice choose a skill, when rolling that skill add a success to the roll

mods: 2 "when rolling chosen skill add additional advantage" mods

I know you really want to create something that people would be impressed with.  This approach is not the way to go about it. 

Learn the system.  Read through a core book cover to cover, at least twice.  Read a few sourcebooks.  Play the game for a while.  Then, when you have a feel for something that is missing, starting working.  Think about the Star Wars universe and how things work within it.  When you have something consistent with the theme, start working on the mechanics.  Critically compair it to other items in the game.  Understand why other items are priced the way they are.  Spend some time considering alternate variations.  

If you can't write at least half a page explaining how you arrived at the final item, then you have not put enough thought into it.  Right now you are just putting down random things and then demanding detailed explanation of why it is bad.

Edited by TheSapient

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44 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

I know you really want to create something that people would be impressed with.  This approach is not the way to go about it. 

Learn the system.  Read through a core book cover to cover, at least twice.  Read a few sourcebooks.  Play the game for a while.  Then, when you have a feel for something that is missing, starting working.  Think about the Star Wars universe and how things work within it.  When you have something consistent with the theme, start working on the mechanics.  Critically compair it to other items in the game.  Understand why other items are priced the way they are.  Spend some time considering alternate variations.  

If you can't write at least half a page explaining how you arrived at the final item, then you have not put enough thought into it.  Right now you are just putting down random things and then demanding detailed explanation of why it is bad.

my personal experience begs to differ with your statement, while yes i have read the core books and a few source books this only gives a basic framework a start point, for a intuitive understanding, which is what i am aiming for, the best way i have found is start with a shotgun and work up to a sniper rifle.

if people require a half page explanation on every idea submitted then our two modes of thought are too dissimilar to understand each other, i don't read half the fluff on any given post i look for the feel of the idea and try to understand that.

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34 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

... i don't read half the fluff on any given post i look for the feel of the idea and try to understand that.

WOW!!!

If you want feedback try reading said feedback and understand why you recieved said feedback.

Otherwise don't bother posting things "hoping" to get feedback because you don't truely want the feedback, you just want to impress people with your ideas... which is not really impressing anyone. It sounds like you like the sound of your own voice and could care less about others thoughts. 

We are here to help people who are wanting help. We are here to be a community of like minded gamers. We are here to enjoy a game that is near and dear to our hearts. We are not here to validate others peoples existance by lying and saying "Good job".

Oh wait... I might as well delete all of this since you won't bother reading any of it anyway.

Seriously!

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2 minutes ago, jayc007 said:

WOW!!!

If you want feedback try reading said feedback and understand why you recieved said feedback.

Otherwise don't bother posting things "hoping" to get feedback because you don't truely want the feedback, you just want to impress people with your ideas... which is not really impressing anyone. It sounds like you like the sound of your own voice and could care less about others thoughts. 

We are here to help people who are wanting help. We are here to be a community of like minded gamers. We are here to enjoy a game that is near and dear to our hearts. We are not here to validate others peoples existance by lying and saying "Good job".

Oh wait... I might as well delete all of this since you won't bother reading any of it anyway.

Seriously!

no i don't want people to just praise and pamper me, but the thing is i weigh "this feels wrong" much heavier then "rules do not allow"

if i need to explain every little detail of an idea i am sorry i can not do that, if you want me to make something that requires you to interpret some of what i'm saying i can deliver that i swades.

for those of you that understand myersbriggs i am an INFP and so i overwhelmingly put effessis on the emotive not the rational, i can't deal with absolutes i can work with a open frame, and loose rules

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55 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

a good metric to use is "why would i not get this?" All of you items fit the there is no reason not to get them. which is a sure sign they are extremely over powered.

how bout this hard mechanics or astrogation check to install (this is supposed to be slightly wibbly wobbly)

success the player can determine the skill that this improves as they install it

any threats generated can spent on anything form

take conflict everytime using the item

GM decides the skill

flip destiny per use

convert X LS to DS

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40 minutes ago, Stormbourne said:

no i don't want people to just praise and pamper me, but the thing is i weigh "this feels wrong" much heavier then "rules do not allow"

if i need to explain every little detail of an idea i am sorry i can not do that, if you want me to make something that requires you to interpret some of what i'm saying i can deliver that i swades.

for those of you that understand myersbriggs i am an INFP and so i overwhelmingly put effessis on the emotive not the rational, i can't deal with absolutes i can work with a open frame, and loose rules

Can't is a four letter word. It's a limiting word. You should use it with care when you use it at all. And you should try to not use it for or on yourself at all.

As to your ideas... look through the special modifications source book and keeping the peace source book and endless vigil source book at the existing crafting rules to see how things are made in the system. Look through the equipment and attachments that are already in the system. Compare your ideas to existing items. Feel the difference between yours and existing. If you feel the existing items are weak and not that useful... there is a reason for that... It's called balance. So try balancing your items to the system and not make something that you HAVE TO HAVE for your character.

Do you really want to cakewalk over every encounter and every obstacle? Is that fun? I would feel bored. I feel so much more fulfilled in the game when my charater succeeds from their skills and cunning rather than their items and equipment... I want my character to make my equipment good not my equipment make me good. Some of my most memorable gaming experiences were from despair or failures and succeeding despite them not negating them completely. 

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I'm also going to suggest taking a step back and reconsidering your approach. Here's why: the game is not built on gear.

There are dozens of starships across the expansions, but mechanically they are all very similar. What makes them work is the life the group imparts the gear through their roleplaying experiences. There are no bad ships. There are not overpowered ships. The game is remarkably well balanced, and all that separates the various bits of gear are the fluff, and the story that gets imbued into it.

The same is true of weapons. There are tons of options for building a lightsaber, and aside from the fluff and some bits of interchangeable game mechanics, they all do the same thing (put the glowy bit into the bad person). Seriously, you could get bogged down in the minutia, but there is no reason to. Nothing, and I mean this in all sincerity, gives a cross-guard lightsaber a mechanical advantage over another type. It just comes down to what the player thinks would be awesome. I can generate the same stats for wildly disparate gear eight different ways for the same outlay of credits. 

After running this game for more than four years, I can tell you the only way a character becomes more potent and capable in this system is investing experience in their talent trees, and by purchasing force abilities (or other trees). That's it. That is how the game was designed, because that's how the lore of Star Wars works. Obi-Wan wore a bathrobe and carried the same weapon for decades. No upgrades. That, and maybe a jedi utility belt, were the sum total of his gear. Han had a catch-vest, a generic (though modified) heavy blaster pistol, and a starting ship. Chewie had a bowcaster and didn't wear clothing. All of those characters are absolutely awesome, and it is very easy to have equally kick-butt PCs, but not if you focus solely on the stuff.

The stuff doesn't matter.

If you made a character with 100xp beyond start and 50,000 credits of personal gear, I guarantee I could design one with 500xp and 1000 credits worth of equipment that would absolutely destroy the geared-out character. It wouldn't even be close. That is because I know from experience that this game is not about anything other than building up talents, and investing xp in skills that synergise. 

So learn the game first. From your posts, it is clear you don't yet grok how it goes. If you want to see the developers' take on max-powered gear, buy Nexus of Power and look at the unique artifacts they built intended to represent some of the most powerful force users in the history of the galaxy. It's so tame compared to what you want to do, mostly because they understand the game, and you don't yet.

Just play. Five sessions in, you'll see that boost and setback are way more impactful than your stuff, and those fly around pretty easily just by talking between players and GM and using the advantage and disadvantage that come up constantly in the course of rolling dice. You'll see that a couple ranks of ranged (light) make blaster pistols that look weak and ineffectual on paper absolutely devastating in combat. You fear the confident Rodian with a light blaster pistol and no armor a lot once you realize what a Gunslinger can do. They don't get shot a lot, on account of killing most threats before they get to act. With their talents. 

I don't bother to gear my NPCs anymore. They just have whatever generic thing they need. Because with a thorough understanding of the rules, you don't need to obsess over it.

Honest.

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