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nikk whyte

I see how it is.

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I would not call it silence. There is plenty of talk about the Ghost lists. 
But the same crowded who was crying for instant nerfs would be in big trouble if they do it again, because they would be looking just stupid. S-Tier lists have become a hydra. Remove one head and a new one will arise. This speaks volumes about the outcry for nerfs AND says as well something about calling them S-Tier instead of just Tier 1 as well. 

Besides, ironically we see anyway a good showing of lists that actually beat Ghosts as well. It's not like that the list is unbeatable, it just more like some regional tournaments got catched with their pants down by them. It seems that most people aware of the list took it themselves, while the rest did not bring counters to the list. :)

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Maybe the problem is just that regionals don't have enough rounds, so players end up not facing high odds of running into their 'hard counter' list?  (Or maybe that the 'hard counter' lists to the top-tier lists don't do well enough to get past the first round if they aren't paired against their preferred prey...so the top-tier list only has to worry about that first, random, round before they are safe?  Perhaps have 3 random rounds before going into Swiss pairings?)

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46 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

I would not call it silence. There is plenty of talk about the Ghost lists. 
But the same crowded who was crying for instant nerfs would be in big trouble if they do it again, because they would be looking just stupid. S-Tier lists have become a hydra. Remove one head and a new one will arise. This speaks volumes about the outcry for nerfs AND says as well something about calling them S-Tier instead of just Tier 1 as well. 

Besides, ironically we see anyway a good showing of lists that actually beat Ghosts as well. It's not like that the list is unbeatable, it just more like some regional tournaments got catched with their pants down by them. It seems that most people aware of the list took it themselves, while the rest did not bring counters to the list. :)

I'd rather fight a hydra with stump heads. Just saying. 

One day when Harpoons and TLTs are on the chopping block, I'll say it again, nerf 'em all! 

Fel's Wrath will rise again. And light to meet it. 

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Totally different experiences.  With Trajectory Nym it's eating a proton bomb from range 11 then taking a harpoon right after that for funsies.  Get rekt.

With this build it's beatable.  You just know you are going to get bloody doing it and have to have to tech for and approach it much different.  Plus with this one you can at least be rewarded with some MOV on a ghost for hitting it 8 times.

 

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1 hour ago, nikk whyte said:

Miranda/nym wins a cluster of regionals on the same day: pandemonium. Must ban cards. Broken experience. community members at each other’s throats 

 

kanan/Fenn wins a cluster of regionals on the same day : silence. 

Yeah, I don't think you're paying enough attention to the forums (not necessarily a bad thing) as there are multiple threads discussing the VCX+Fenn (and several podcasts are talking about it) .   It also wasn't one weekend for Nym/Miranda as people were concerned well before then .  The weekend you are talking about was a significant breaking point, but there was plenty of concern from the start of regional season.

The VCX+Fenn also isn't nearly as close -- at least yet -- to the domination that Miranda Nym was seeing (it was having success rates similar to Paratanni and pre-nerf Triple Jumps ).  I think people at least feel like they have more options counterplay against VCX+Fenn (though I do want to emphasize the word "feel").   I mean, Miranda/Nym made use of pretty much the most concerning/frustrating mechanics and upgrades in the game currently. 

EDIT:  And I just took a look and noted that even since the nerf, it's arguably more successful than the VCX but it just isn't being played as much.  It's still on top (and pretty comfortably so) for the new year.

Edited by AlexW

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26 minutes ago, AlexW said:

EDIT:  And I just took a look and noted that even since the nerf, it's arguably more successful than the VCX but it just isn't being played as much.  It's still on top (and pretty comfortably so) for the new year.

Which I find hilarious. NymMiranda is without doubt still a very powerful list. Suckers just got all butt hurt because it lost the Genius trajectory Simulator interaction and stopped playing it. 

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I honestly think the Ezra/Maul Fenn-Ghost is going to be so prevalent and successful that FFG will finally nerf TLT.  (Note that I'm making no statement on my own feelings about whether TLT needs nerfing.)  It is an amazing list, on par with Dengaroo.  People can just pick it up and fly it, assuming they know the interactions, and do well ... and once they know how to protect Fenn, it's an absolute monster.

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I honestly think the Ezra/Maul Fenn-Ghost is going to be so prevalent and successful that FFG will finally nerf TLT.  (Note that I'm making no statement on my own feelings about whether TLT needs nerfing.)  It is an amazing list, on par with Dengaroo.  People can just pick it up and fly it, assuming they know the interactions, and do well ... and once they know how to protect Fenn, it's an absolute monster.

As the ******* who put two TLT based ghosts in one list, I'd be fine ruling it small ship only. It won't fix the Miranda problem, but it's a start on other lists. People will just switch to ion or synched which still could suck, but it's a bit more space that you are safe from it. 

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6 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

You can't have been looking very hard, considering there's an eight page thread on the first page of the forum...

Just for the record: the focus of said thread is or should be on adaption to play and lists, not calls for nerfs.

5 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It is an amazing list, on par with Dengaroo.  People can just pick it up and fly it, assuming they know the interactions, and do well ... and once they know how to protect Fenn, it's an absolute monster.

I‘m not yet sure about that. I think GhostFenn has more counters that are viable in the meta, and not such an incredibly strong matchup against as many lists as Dengaroo had.

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@nikk whyte

- traj sim was unique in that you could take ships off the board, before any engagement, without shooting at them. The community immediately realized that this was pretty terrible NPE and justifiably went nuts.

- ghost Fenn is a different critter altogether, but it’s central mechanic — the quad tlt shot combined with Fenn’s amazing ability - really does illustrate how incredible TLT is on a big base ship that can shoot it multiple times a round and act at ps11. To quote Dee, it is abusive. And yeah people have been calling for a tlt nerf for 6 waves now, and Fenn Ghost is an excellent illustration as to why.

just curious, have you played against it yet? Interested in your take on it. I think it can be beat,  but (prediction) it will have an serious warping effect on what was shaping up to be a healthy looking meta.

 

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1 hour ago, sozin said:

@nikk whyte

- traj sim was unique in that you could take ships off the board, before any engagement, without shooting at them. The community immediately realized that this was pretty terrible NPE and justifiably went nuts.

- ghost Fenn is a different critter altogether, but it’s central mechanic — the quad tlt shot combined with Fenn’s amazing ability - really does illustrate how incredible TLT is on a big base ship that can shoot it multiple times a round and act at ps11. To quote Dee, it is abusive. And yeah people have been calling for a tlt nerf for 6 waves now, and Fenn Ghost is an excellent illustration as to why.

just curious, have you played against it yet? Interested in your take on it. I think it can be beat,  but (prediction) it will have an serious warping effect on what was shaping up to be a healthy looking meta.

 

I haven’t played against a well flown one. I went 4-2 at the Atlanta regional last week, and only caught a weird synced turret version in the final Swiss round.

I believe if you can keep up the damage race, while stopping just 2 of the tlt shots you have a chance. I aim to find out in Nashville this weekend. 

Edited by nikk whyte

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7 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I honestly think the Ezra/Maul Fenn-Ghost is going to be so prevalent and successful that FFG will finally nerf TLT.  (Note that I'm making no statement on my own feelings about whether TLT needs nerfing.)  It is an amazing list, on par with Dengaroo.  People can just pick it up and fly it, assuming they know the interactions, and do well ... and once they know how to protect Fenn, it's an absolute monster.

I hope they nerf the Ghost, not TLT. 

It keeps the Falcons and garbage from coming to the top. 

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11 hours ago, nikk whyte said:

Miranda/nym wins a cluster of regionals on the same day: pandemonium. Must ban cards. Broken experience. community members at each other’s throats 

 

kanan/Fenn wins a cluster of regionals on the same day : silence. 

Scurrg and k-wing, never seen them in Disney Star Wars films or cartoons... Some Ghosts around are quite an advertise tho

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1 hour ago, Flaren48 said:

Scurrg and k-wing, never seen them in Disney Star Wars films or cartoons... Some Ghosts around are quite an advertise tho

That‘s actually a good point: flying Ghost with the Phantom II wins the award for most thematic list.

Especially if Maul+Ezra are used together!

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It's a simple fix for the TLT on the Ghost. just add, "Then assign a weapons disabled token to this ship" the ghost will then have to move for arc for a primary weapon shot and the use TLT in end phase. 

Doesn't change how the TLT functions and means it can be out played and you don't eat 4 TLT a round.

Edited by the1hodgy

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