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Villan

Unplayable/useless ships?

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45 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I know you said you don't want to buy more ships, but there's a few that are really nice to have. Do you have a YT-2400? That comes with a great build right out of the box. So does the First Order TIE Fighter expansion. Sounds like you've got a K-Wing? That's good. You might also consider Heroes of the Resistance. 

The YT-2400 is one of the best "Stand Alone" expansions out IMHO. While you are not getting "everything" you need, it is dang close.

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Most ships have a way to build them to make them useable. That said, the amount of spike damage around these days puts me off many things like the hwk-290, a wings, any of the OT TIEs...

I have this theory that FAA t-65s might be good which I’m going to test out as I start working on my options for the Open next month.

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1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Heres the secret...

If you play good things with bad things you can enjoy any of the bad things in any setting. 

The more I think about it there aren't any ships in the game that are terrible. 

Quadjumper? The only ship I own I’ve never flown.

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I wouldn't categorize these ships as "unplayable/useless" ships.  Id'd say are they take work to make work: G-1A Starfighter (Misthunter), Quadjumper, TIE /ln & Interceptor (sorry, 3 hull isn't doing it any more).

There ARE uses for these ships, like for blocking or using a pilot ablility or equipping them with a specific upgrade but they are very difficult to make Viable in today's game (assuming you're trying to stay competitive).

My favorite Imperial List that does a lot of work and surprises my opponents is mostly based on "older" ships:

"Deathfire" (17)
Extra Munitions (2)
Unguided Rockets (2)
Cluster Mines (4)

"Dark Curse" (16)
Stealth Device (3)

The Inquisitor (25)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

"Zeta Leader" (20)
Wired (1)
Advanced Optics (2)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

AND it's fun t fly.

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3 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Quadjumper? The only ship I own I’ve never flown.

A Jakku Gunrunner is only 15 pts and can fit into any # of lists with broken things. Its not super good...but it doesnt really need to be. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Heres the secret...

If you play good things with bad things you can enjoy any of the bad things in any setting. 

The more I think about it there aren't any ships in the game that are terrible. 

This entirely depends on what you mean by "enjoy," "any setting," and "terrible."

Since it seems like I completely disagree with your conclusion, I suspect we are using these terms very differently, because I think there are some ships in the game that I would call terrible and that I would struggle to find any enjoyment in flying them at a Regional I drove 4 hours to get to and spent $25 on admission, because for me, at least part of enjoying that experience will depend on me feeling like I have winnable games and not getting hopelessly stomped for nine straight hours.

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4 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This entirely depends on what you mean by "enjoy," "any setting," and "terrible."

Since it seems like I completely disagree with your conclusion, I suspect we are using these terms very differently, because I think there are some ships in the game that I would call terrible and that I would struggle to find any enjoyment in flying them at a Regional I drove 4 hours to get to and spent $25 on admission, because for me, at least part of enjoying that experience will depend on me feeling like I have winnable games and not getting hopelessly stomped for nine straight hours.

Im 99% sure you could play any ship in the game with Timewalk Assaj, Miranda, or Kylo Silencer and make Top 16 at any regional. 

There are bad ships in the game no doubt. But I don't think anything can be categorized as Unplayable. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Fake news. Corran Horn is still amazing. 

Are we talking about ships or about pilots?  I thought we were talking about ships, as per the OP.  On that front, the E-Wing probably has the worst portfolio for its price-point, and outside of Corran's amazing pilot ability, the ship is radically underwhelming (a bit like Biggs vs the T-65 platform, though Wes Jansen has always done a good job of being just interesting enough to keep the T65 from being a complete one-trick pony, with honorable mention to Wedge thanks mostly to his PS9).  I mean, someone can believe that Biggs is amazing and still say that the T65 is a terrible ship.  I think this is even more true for the E-Wing: Corran is fantastic despite being yoked to one of the absolute worst platforms in the game.

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11 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

A Jakku Gunrunner is only 15 pts and can fit into any # of lists with broken things. Its not super good...but it doesnt really need to be. 

For 20-22 points:

You can have an annoying pocket bomber with the Gunrunner. 

Jakku Gunrunner (15)

Cad Bane (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Cloaking Device (2)

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15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Im 99% sure you could play any ship in the game with Timewalk Assaj, Miranda, or Kylo Silencer and make Top 16 at any regional. 

There are bad ships in the game no doubt. But I don't think anything can be categorized as Unplayable. 

LOL we clearly aren't playing in the same Regionals.  There's no way a Miranda shackled to a U-Wing is gonna go 7-2 at a 150 person Regional.  Heck, if nothing else she's gonna spend about three matches probably playing against herself in a mirror match, except instead of the opponent having also pissed away a bunch of points on a U-Wing they're gonna have something like Nym, Dash, Poe, Lowhrick, or a host of other things that are many times more effective point-for-point than a U-Wing. 

That math doesn't add up... since you're basically claiming that:

(Miranda + Garbage) > (Miranda + Gold)

and I don't see how that could ever be the case...

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

There is no meta, only Zuul.

@Villan while it's true that some ships (and combinations of ships, pilots and upgrades) are very powerful, it depends a lot on how you play the game and how you want to play the game.  If you play the game casually with family and friends, then you shouldn't really need to worry troo much about tailoring your list and flying meta builds unless your friends and family are really competitive).  If you want to jump into the tournament scene, then it's probably worth checking out what lists are doing welll and what the top players are flying.

Take that list that @Vordyn posted above - those ships are not all necessarily bad, they're just not being flown very often at the moment in (recorded) tournament play.  In fact, some of the pilots there (Soontir Fel, Whisper, Carnor Jax, Jake Farrell, Tycho Celchu) can be absolutely amazing if flown well.

And that comes from practice, more than anything else.  I usually take the approach first and foremost, you should enjoy flying the ships you're using.  If you're putting Fenn and the Ghost on the table because it's what the top players are using, but you don't particularly enjoy flying them, then what's the point?  It's much more rewarding taking something you enjoy and getting some good games out of it.

I think this is the best advise. Yes, most newer ships are on a higher power level.  It doesn't mean all previous ships aren't worth buying.  It does mean you should talk to your main opponents and figure HOW you want to play.  If you want to play with all ships and your brother wants to play high level tournament lists....you will have a hard time.

I also say feel free to proxy any upgrade you don't have as that will help.

Heroes of the Aturi Cluster is also great and I highly recommend it.

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Especially in casual games, I make an effort to mix it up as often as I can and I have yet to find a ship that just croaked. Obviously this doesn't mean there are no power gaps, but when I could take down Nymranda on saturday with a list comprised of a Punisher, a Bomber and an Advanced, against an opponent that has played and won against me numerous times, I may be an outlier, but one that feels especially for Casual Play the Doom and Gloom is overstated. And no, dice were not very hot or cold for either of us.

My unwavering optimism out of the way, I have to absolutely agree that competitively, things very apparently look different. Nowhere near broken, but it would be idiotic of me to deny the trends- and while I despise ranty shouts, I am not going to close my eyes here. Most of the points brought up here are true, yet I'd like to remind that @Villan's position allows the framework of thought to be a casual one. Reps are still king here (as is fun, so "efficiency" in all slots should not be the first thing to think about in the first place).

What spoke to me the most is that  2 attack ships above a certain point cost are a very hard sell and that swarms are too easily disrupted or killed to be worth the effort. I've found that loosely ganging up on opponents with the likes of Mauler or Scourge though allows you to be freeform enough that you can dodge around a bit, and these two are decent at improving their attack. Keep them low-cost, expect their demise and capitalize on it.

Anyone remember that you can bring a Deci and three TiEs? It's fun, it's got space for synergy, you can bring Wampa- just don't use it at a tourney.

Edited by DampfGecko

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11 hours ago, Vordyn said:

Current bottom 11 ships on meta-wing.com

44.) A-Wing

45.) Upsilon-class Shuttle

46.) B-Wing

47.) Z-95 (Scum)

48.) HWK-290 (Rebel)

49.) G1-A

50.) Firespray-31 (Imp)

51.) TIE Interceptor

52.) TIE Phantom

53.) U-Wing

54.) TIE Punisher

This is almost a complete list of my favorite, fun-to-fly ships. :D

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14 hours ago, Zazaa said:

Every single ship is good in casual game, cant really go wrong there! :ph34r:

^This.

12 hours ago, DailyRich said:

Man, I remember a time when every single Imperial list might as well have had "and Soontir Fel" permanently attached to it....

I just played Fel with a TIE Phantom and a TIE Silncer, which worked well.

I was playing against 2 Kimogilas, the Ghost, an A-Wing, and Nym of the Everlasting Exploding Rabbit Turdlet Generator.

The game was a lot of fun.  Which supports this idea:

 

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Heres the secret...

If you play good things with bad things you can enjoy any of the bad things in any setting. 

The more I think about it there aren't any ships in the game that are terrible. 

If you at least mix and match, and not netlist the entire list with today's OP ships, the older ships can still have a dynamic role.

12 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

Are you "soapboxing" or "grandstanding?"  I get my "on a raised platform" metaphors confused. ;)

Edited by Darth Meanie

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11 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Quadjumper? The only ship I own I’ve never flown.

Quadjumpers are perfectly viable when paired with cloaking device and Cikatro, especially Unkar and the gunrunner.

My list of truly useless ships at the moment is as follows, and is defined as ships that are eclipsed in their role by other builds doing the same thing better/cheaper/more reliably.

B-Wing
E-wing
HWK-290
U-Wing
T-65 X-wing
YT-1300
Y-wing (except maybe stress bot)

Firespray (despite a phenomenal player winning a regional recently with one)
TIE Advanced (even vader)
TIE Advaced Prototype
TIE Bomber
TIE Fighter (except as filler)
TIE Interceptor
TIE Phantom
Upsilon Shuttle

Aggressor
G1-A
Kimogila
M3-A Interceptor
Starviper (except the amazingly fun Thweek)
YV-666

All these ships have nice gimmicks and synergies, but they're simply eclipsed by other ships that do the same - or incredibly similar - things far better.

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I'm sure this is a useless answer, but I long since figured out a couple things about this game:

1) I will probably never have the time it would take to GIT GUD. *Maybe* the capacity, but not the time.

2) I have more fun losing at X-Wing than playing just about any other game out there

I respect the people who want to go flying the top ships at the top tables. I think not every ship or every person is going to get there, though. I think people need to be more realistic about that than I often see. Above all, I think it's important just to figure out what you like to fly and have fun with it.

5 hours ago, stuffedskullcat said:

This is almost a complete list of my favorite, fun-to-fly ships. :D

It's a little off mine, but not tons off!

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2 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I'm sure this is a useless answer, but I long since figured out a couple things about this game:

1) I will probably never have the time it would take to GIT GUD. *Maybe* the capacity, but not the time.

2) I have more fun losing at X-Wing than playing just about any other game out there

I respect the people who want to go flying the top ships at the top tables. I think not every ship or every person is going to get there, though. I think people need to be more realistic about that than I often see. Above all, I think it's important just to figure out what you like to fly and have fun with it.

It's a little off mine, but not tons off!

This. Which also means that I can take and fly almost any ships - I just have to ones I like.

Also, well flown yet silly lists can beat top meta lists, just not regularly. A friend of mine took a U-Wing to the top 16 of a 132 player regional and only lost (to a former UK national champion) because of some amazing evade dice rolls.

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