Hit and Run with Teleportarium and Murder-Servitors

[Dangerbutton 3]

Our Dynasty's ship has both the Murder-Servitor and Teleportarium components. Both allow for a +20 bonus in the Hit and Run actions. I'm debating how I should handle this. What I'm debating between is letting it stack, or simply allowing them to go on two hit and run actions per strategic round, one with each. Or, perhaps if it stacks, have the combined bonus be only +30. Or, should I allow the +40? Any suggestions.

[MILLANDSON 306]

To balance it a little, I'd definitely go for +30. Otherwise you can just do evasive maneouvers all the time whilst whittling them down with Hit-and-Run attacks.

[Dangerbutton 3]

What I'm starting to think I might do is simply not suggest the teleportarium, and let them take the +20 on hit and runs with the murder servitors. If they come up with the idea of using the teleportarium, then I owe it to them for usin their noggins (though do I really? It's right there in the book. . .  meh, whatever). As far as making it balanced in-game, letting them widdle the enemy ships down with hit and runs whilst they rock the evasive maneuvers really doesn't sound fair, but this is a roleplaying game. Using your head deserves a reward. Besides, what they won't know is that the enemy ships are protected by special murder servitors that get +30 on the command test.

[Brother Praetus 11]

I say let them stack as normal.  They're circumstance modifiers, after all.  Now, what I would do is hit them with a choice.  If you are performing H&R on your opponent, chances are they might return the favor.  I'd rule you can only use your Murder Servitors to attack or defend, not both at once. 

-=Brother Praetus=-

[Dangerbutton 3]

Brother Praetus said:

  I'd rule you can only use your Murder Servitors to attack or defend, not both at once. 

-=Brother Praetus=-

Good idea. the players may be able to hit pretty hard, but the enemy can certainly return the favor. That's the kinda dynamics I like to see.

[Cifer 211]

If they come up with the idea of using the teleportarium, then I owe it to them for usin their noggins (though do I really? It's right there in the book. . . meh, whatever).

Um... the components kinda stick out when you think about it for a second. It's among the most obvious connections in the book.

 

If you are performing H&R on your opponent, chances are they might return the favor.

The problem with that is that the technology for both murder servitors and the teleportarium are supposed to be rare, with the teleportarium being almost lost technology. Handing the combination to every opponent is like equipping every ganger in the street with a powersword and a boltgun.

 

I'd rule you can only use your Murder Servitors to attack or defend, not both at once.

Neither the Teleportarium nor the Murder Servitors can be used to defend at all.

 

I agree with Millandson that either granting a diminishing return (say, +30) or letting them make two attacks at +20 each sounds more feasible.

[Dalnor Surloc 1]

Generally I

 

A)Don't let PCs get one.

B)Make it so if you fail a command roll badly you damage the servitors.

C)Have bad guys which are immune to H&R, have good command skills, or high modifiers.  If you give an NPC capitan a 40-50 command score and baracks then thing are more even.

D)Have ways to counter the teleportarium.  They are pretty rare so if the PCs start using one a lot pirates and the like will get word of it, and find ways to jam it.

 

These are my house rules for this:

 

Teleportarium

Being transported through the Warp to arrive at your destination is an imperfect science, made all the harder by the fact that next to nothing is known about exactly how these ancient devices work.

 

A character operating the Teleportarium may make a psyniscience or tech use skill check.  If a character has both he recieves a +20 bonus to his best skill. 

 

If the enemy ship has an active gellar field the roll is -20,  and -10 for warpbane hulls (-30 with warpbane with active gellar).  Note that keeping the gellar field active is a drain on power, and all rolls for ship actions are at -10.  Unless the ship diverts power from a weapon system (unpowered), shields(unpowered), or drives(1/2 speed).  (Normally in warp a ship does not have to worry about powering it's shields, or weapons.)

 

Success indicates that the target has arrived relatively safely, with degrees of success or failure used to judge how far off target the teleported character lands. Sending a character to a teleport beacon, or retrieving a group with one, gives +20 on this check. 

 

If a 90-95 is rolled.   Roll on the phenomena table twice.  The 1st roll is for the target area, and the 2nd for the teleportarium room.   If a 96-100 is rolled for the skill check the teleport fails and roll once on phenomena table for the teleportarium room. Even at the best of times, a teleportation is dangerous. If the skill check was successful, the subject takes 1d5 damage, -1 for every degree of success. A failed roll causes 2d5 damage, +1 for every degree of failure. This damage ignores armour, but not toughness. 

 

Note that generally a failed skill check doesn't mean the teleport fails unless a 96-100 is rolled.  The exception being if the target has an active gellar field in which case the teleport roll must suceed, and the target ship is immune to phenomena caused by 90-95 rolls.

 

In ship scale combat use a command roll instead.  Damage is not tracked. Most phenomena results will be confined to the teleportarium with little effect.  For more serious effects the GM may rule that the teleportarium is damaged, or other effects linger.  (IE daemonic forces may be hiding on board shp.)

 

These devices may only be used 3 times in a ship turn.  This includes retrieving a hit and run force.  Of course  hit and run attacks by other means may still be done.  Putting large explosive devices on the pad is dangerous as they may detonate on the pad with a failed skill roll......

 

Murder Servitors

 

Murder Servitors may be only used for one command roll in a given turn.  If a command roll is failed by more than 20 this component is damaged and must be repaired.

[Dangerbutton 3]

Well, in under two hours we'll be playing RT, and this situation will be put to the test. The rules I'm setting down for this one . . .

-A Hit and Run action with the Murder Servitors may only be done once per turn

-A Hit and Run action with the Teleportarium may only be done once per turn

-A Hit and Run action with the bonus from the barracks may only be done once per turn

-Each of these will have the listed bonuses

-Bonus for Barracks is applied to defending against a Hit and Run, unless it was used on a Hit and Run that turn.

-Teleportarium and Murder Servitors do not help on the defense.

I'm thinkin the above guidelines should be fair. Even then, the enemy ships will be hitting pretty hard. They're small ships, just frigates, but they're special frigates. They're some sort of ancient sentinel ships, entirely manned by archeotech servitors, which the explorers are going to mistakenly awaken while putting their noses where they shouldn't.  They'll likely be using a lot of evasive maneuvers while repeatedly hitting our ship with the H&R. Should be a fun one.

[Face Eater 35]

Does it mention it under the rules for teleportarium that you can't use while Void shields are up?

[Cifer 211]

Does it mention it under the rules for teleportarium that you can't use while Void shields are up?

It doesn't.

[Dangerbutton 3]

I'd really hope not. That's a Star Trek thing, and if there's anything that is definitely not Star Trek, it's Warhammer 40k. (yet, as a proud nerd, I must confess that I love both)

Anyhow, it turned out that this really wasn't an issue. Lucky rolls on the shooting action, coupled with the opposite from the enemy ships made for a quick and easy battle. Only one hit and run action, in which a PC almost got himself killed (he's glad he held onto that last fate point), and a series of really angry barrages from our batteries, and the enemy was obliterated.

Oh well, they're bound to have a harder ship battle sometime.

[Cifer 211]

I'd really hope not. That's a Star Trek thing, and if there's anything that is definitely not Star Trek, it's Warhammer 40k. (yet, as a proud nerd, I must confess that I love both)

Funny you should say that, because in Battle Fleet Gothic, teleport assaults can only be done on shieldless enemies...

[Aajav-Khan 1]

Cifer said:

I'd really hope not. That's a Star Trek thing, and if there's anything that is definitely not Star Trek, it's Warhammer 40k. (yet, as a proud nerd, I must confess that I love both)

Funny you should say that, because in Battle Fleet Gothic, teleport assaults can only be done on shieldless enemies...

     This was also mentioned in the Errata thread. 

[MILLANDSON 306]

Aajav-Khan said:

Cifer said:

 

I'd really hope not. That's a Star Trek thing, and if there's anything that is definitely not Star Trek, it's Warhammer 40k. (yet, as a proud nerd, I must confess that I love both)

Funny you should say that, because in Battle Fleet Gothic, teleport assaults can only be done on shieldless enemies...

 

 

     This was also mentioned in the Errata thread. 

And the Emperor could only teleport onto Horus' ship because Horus dropped the shields. So yea... that should be in there.

[babyseal 0]

afaik using a hit-and-run action forces you to give up your shooting action for the turn.

how are you going to ever be successful with a hit-and-run teleportarium attack if its impossible for a single ship to both the void shields and hit-and-run in the same round?

[Cifer 211]

afaik using a hit-and-run action forces you to give up your shooting action for the turn.

Where does it say that? Certainly, a character can't both shoot and hit&run, but a ship can.

[dvang 10]

Personally, I would just implement a 'fatigue' effect on the murder servitors.  After all, each hit and run attack will cause casualties that are not quickly replaced.  So, reduce murder servitor's effectiveness after each attack and/or limit the number of times the murder servitors can be used in a battle.  You could also have the players make a roll to see if the servitors "exhaust", or somesuch.

[babyseal 0]

apparently i'm horribly  misinformed.

you aren't allowed to shoot and board in the same round, but you are able to hit and run while shooting and moving. silly me.

[ArghMark 2]

Honestly, the people suggesting they weaken the ability are going to ruin the fun of it. Don't ruin it for the PC's! Why make it so their awesome ability is no longer awesome? Let them be awesome. That doesn't mean they win, but they do get to shine in their element.

 

Just because it is a good combination doesn't make it overpowering. Add that to the shields down thing and there should be no drama.

 

[mhrocznykiciak 0]

Hi,

Can somebody tell my if i can use in one turn in one hit and run action Murder servitors + teleportum + barracks?

The bonus would be +60, yes?

I'm asking about RAW rules.

Thanks.

[Cifer 211]

@mhrocznykiciak

RAW, they would. What influence that has on anyone's game is another question...

 

@ArghMark

Honestly, the people suggesting they weaken the ability are going to ruin the fun of it. Don't ruin it for the PC's! Why make it so their awesome ability is no longer awesome? Let them be awesome. That doesn't mean they win, but they do get to shine in their element.

Just because it is a good combination doesn't make it overpowering. Add that to the shields down thing and there should be no drama.

Considering most ships only have one shield, that won't exactly downgrade the ability.
Other than that... I don't know, but pretty much automatically dealing one critical effect from 1 to 6 of your choice per round, crippling any system you care to, does sound kind of overpowering to me. Can you describe a combat that could be won without this ability, still remains challenging with it and that doesn't rely on components that you really shouldn't put into every second ship?

[ArghMark 2]

Very well. All this in mind with the idea that in my PC's wanted a Teleportarium and Murder servitors, there's two short campaigns.

 

I could assume most ships of a more military bent would try to have a barracks, which gives + 20 (All command tests involving boarding or hit and run). Thats a fairly cheap trick, and not something I'd like to pull more than once though.

Murder servitors only work when used to conduct a hit and run action, not defend. Hence, between these two components, I would rate the Barracks as over-all more effective.

 

* Requested Example*

 

The problem is that I think you are looking for an 'average', 'standard' fight. The PC's are not and the bad guys should definately not be 'average'. The bad guys may be equal and opposite, but shouldn't all come with Barracks for instance. Each ship should be unique; they aren't all stock standard ships, they are ancient things. For example, a different weapon loadout -

Let us imagine two RTs in battle. One with a fast Raider and a standard Macrobattery and a Lance Battery (Something I think no more difficult to obtain than a standard lance cannon), the other in a cruiser or frigate with a teleportarium/servitor combo and more standard weapons. Using appropriate piloting rolls, that ship could stay at distance 6, or attempt to as much as possible. Stripping and damaging the opponents ship. With some creative use of distance (Tactics), they can attempt to minimize the time they are in distance 5 or less, and maximise 6 or greater. This equalizes the combat to a greater extent. Due to staying at range as much as possible, they are playing to their strengths. Is this a problem? Only for the PC's with the murder servitors who want to use them. Due to attempting to stay out of range, and the 1 - 5 critical that is delivered, chances are high people who would normally be doing things like boarding are now doing things like fixing the criticals.

 

This I assume is added to by the rogue trader who has things such as Iron Discipline and a decent Command skill. And a RT who doesn't prepare to repel murder servitors is asking for it.

 

This is what I think of as a challenge to the PC's. Do they get to use their combination? Sure! But they need to think strategically to put themselves in the position to do so. Will the party need the servitors to win? Nope. They can still trade cannon fire, but at an equal level.

 

Are there other ways to use different abilities? No problem. I might say it is very difficult to teleport anyone onto anything with a ghost field without an Auger check, though that is a house rule. Don't forget that a few ships may have Tenebro Mazes, which means the ships owner chooses the critical, not the hitter and runner. With Murder servitors, I might even say they get to choose between 1 and 6.

 

Let alone alien entities or ships with no critical hits to be had, or places to be unpowered or unpressured.

 

Does the ability win fights? It may do. Will it win them all? Nope. Try it against an Orky ship and see it work and the orcs board and kill you all.

 

 

 

I have provided a few examples where murder servitors won't win the fight ultimately, and where other ships will do perfectly well. But the murder servitors will be fun when they do get used.

 

That being said -

 

Teleportarium + Murder Servitors is a powerful combination. But if you let the PC's feel good about having such a combination, and just give them appropriate challenges, it makes the thing useful instead of overpowered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MILLANDSON 306]

ArghMark said:

I could assume most ships of a more military bent would try to have a barracks, which gives + 20 (All command tests involving boarding or hit and run). Thats a fairly cheap trick, and not something I'd like to pull more than once though.

You only get the +20 when you have troops in the barracks, and troops don't automatically come with the barracks component, you'd have to hire them separately.

[Xagroth 2]

You know, the main use of the tenebrae maze is to allow the defender to choose the system hit. Quite important if you have a Munitorum...

 

And teleportarium or not, a Lance with range 6/12 (which ignores armour...) can do quite a damage. I tried a ship-to-ship (20 VU away, a "duel"), and the frigate woth the lance obliterated the chaos frigate with a single salvo (gunner skill: 60+10 from the Rogue Trader... and two 04 in the dice. More than 50 hull damage to a ship with only 35... booom!). Nothing works better agains short-range tactics than to blew out them at long range ^^.

[Xagroth 2]

Argus Van Het said:

And teleportarium or not, a Lance with range 6/12 (which ignores armour...) can do quite a damage. I tried a ship-to-ship (20 VU away, a "duel"), and the frigate woth the lance obliterated the chaos frigate with a single salvo (gunner skill: 60+10 from the Rogue Trader... and two 04 in the dice. More than 50 hull damage to a ship with only 35... booom!). Nothing works better agains short-range tactics than to blew out them at long range ^^.

Tsss, no edit option...

My bad, it was not a lance but a laser macrobattery. A failure by my side, but really irrelevant, since only 51 points of damage were required to cripple the ship (which was done, and a little more) and it was a ship test (I'm trying different options of armament). The target was a chaos frigate from the BFG-converted documents, by the way (the difference between Ship Points was quite notorious: 60 for the attacker and 35 or so for the chaos frigate...).