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Warenhari

[Rules Question] Does Shadowland count for all Objectives with province or territory requirement?

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Shadowland section in a rulebook sounds as follow:

Quote

The Shadowlands do not provide players with honor at the end of the game. A player does not gain honor for controlling Shadowlands territories or for having faceup control tokens in either Shadowlands province.

But does player gain Honor from Objective, like:

Quote

Emerald Empire
At the end of the game, if you control six consecutively adjacent provinces that span three different territories, you earn 10 honor.

Web of Influence
At the end of the game, if you control at least one province in each of seven different territories, you earn 10 honor.

At first I thought yes, but after re-reading Shadowland rule I wasn't so sure.

In case of

Quote

Reclaiming Lost Lands
At the end of the game, if you control both Shadowlands provinces, you earn 3 honor.

Card specific rule triumphs Rulebook general rule here so it's all fine. But in case of Emerald Empire and Web of Influence, it's no so clear whatever non-specific descriptor Province was intended as Any Province, even Shadowlands overriding Shadowlands gives no Honor, or as generic statement still under the rule of Shadowlands gives no Honor.

Fluff-wise arguments also arise, as one would expect political and empire-centric objectives would depend on civilized regions and not some cursed, kami-forgotten wasteland.

Interpretation changes tactics and value of those objectives a lot, as gaining 6 provinces across 3 territories including Shadowlands means you need only Crab territory and both Shadowlands to satisfy 10 Honor worth objective. Same goes with Web of Influence, where you can fulfill 3/7 of requirement if you keep your capital and take Shadowlands that have no strategic value (doesn't count for final score for anyone except one with Reclaiming Lost Lands objective.)

I'm interested both in private opinions and rules interpretation as I'd appreciate official comment on intended ruling as I'm always interested in playing game as-designed first.

Regards,

Warenhari

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Edit: formatting fixes.

Edited by Warenhari

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8 hours ago, Victarion13 said:

For what I understand and I know, Reclaiming Lost Lands is the only way for gain honor with shadowlands territory.

Can you point any argument or rule about it? What makes, by rules, one gain honor from Reclaiming Lost Lands and not i.e. Emerald Empire including shadowland provinces for count?

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13 hours ago, Warenhari said:

Can you point any argument or rule about it? What makes, by rules, one gain honor from Reclaiming Lost Lands and not i.e. Emerald Empire including shadowland provinces for count?

Well, I just go for logic. 

The rule of the Shadolands is: no honor.

And also the Web of Influence say: "seven territories", so the 7 clans, and their 7 territories. Shadowlands are not in those 7.  I think on this there are no mistake in understanding. 7 clans, 7 territories, and you have to get one part in all the territories.

For Emerald Empire... the Shadowlands are not a part of the Empire, this is not a rule, but a part of the Legend of the Five rings BG, so put them with the Emerald Empire makes no sense (but I repeat this is a no sense based on the BG of the game, and not raw rule).

For my point of view, the cards Reclaiming Lost Lands is specific on overruling the base rule of the Shadowlands. And it's the only cards that is doing that. Other cards giving no specific overruling, are keep on with Shadowlands giving no honor also for their objectives

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