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TheSapient

Shadowrun Conversion Thoughts

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So the question becomes whether cybernetics make magic more tiring or more difficult when casting spells. If it becomes more tiring since you have less "essence" then strain costs should increase.

If it is more difficult then it could be a combination of setback dice and difficulty increases or automatic threat (or even failures) that are gained as casters get more implants.  Each .5 Brawn (or fraction), add one threat to the casting check. The only problem with this is that casters with a high Brawn can have more implants before loosing their ability to cast and will accumulate more potential threat.

Alternately you could do a combination of the the above options. 

As a side note, in Shadowrun, characters can take enough physical damage to reduce their essence. This should be added to the Crit Table somewhere above 120 (I dont have the book in front of me).

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18 minutes ago, lyinggod said:

So the question becomes whether cybernetics make magic more tiring or more difficult when casting spells. If it becomes more tiring since you have less "essence" then strain costs should increase.

If it is more difficult then it could be a combination of setback dice and difficulty increases or automatic threat (or even failures) that are gained as casters get more implants.  Each .5 Brawn (or fraction), add one threat to the casting check. The only problem with this is that casters with a high Brawn can have more implants before loosing their ability to cast and will accumulate more potential threat.

Alternately you could do a combination of the the above options. 

As a side note, in Shadowrun, characters can take enough physical damage to reduce their essence. This should be added to the Crit Table somewhere above 120 (I dont have the book in front of me).

3

Well if you go by the Shadowrun rules. It lowers your magic stat, leading to ups Difficulty and upping the possibility of drain, also lower how powerful of spells you can cast.

using Genesys we have three ways to handle this that I think models this effect(in a Genesys way). 

 

1. Add black dice.

2. Upgrade the difficulty.

3. Downgrade the skill.

4. Add extra strain.

you could also do sort of combo of above.

I think number 4 does not model what happens in the Shadowrun system but is more how to spell has been handled so far in Genesys.

with number four once you add that more then once it's going to start adding up fast.

after working all this out I'm kind of liking number 3 or perhaps 3 and 2/1.

adding cyber just makes your caster more of a mediocre spell caster but never stop them from casting fully.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, adairhammer said:

Well if you go by the Shadowrun rules. It lowers your magic stat, leading to ups Difficulty and upping the possibility of drain, also lower how powerful of spells you can cast.

As you said, harder to cast and more draining. The question is how closely are these going to be modeled in Genesys. Increasing both strain and difficulty, if applied correctly, will provide the necessary encouragement for mages to, not only not go nuts with cyberware but to avoid cyberware all together. A straight increase of difficulty and strain for each per level of brawn used might be excessive. However the question needs to be asked regarding how hard it is for a essence 1 caster to do magic, in SR, compared to an essence 6 caster. Is it appropriate to approximate the severity of casting difficulty in Genesys? If the an essence 1 caster, in SR, has a very low chance of successfully casting a spell and will pass out after only two attempts then perhaps increasing strain and difficulty per point of Brawn would be appropriate. 

17 minutes ago, adairhammer said:

adding cyber just makes your caster more of a mediocre spell caster but never stop them from casting fully.

I havent taken a close look at the last two editions of SR but in earlier editions, if caster has a low essence (between 1.1 and 1.9) and takes sufficiently critical damage, he can loose a point of essense resulting in his essense being less then 1. It takes at least an essence of 1 to be able to do magic at all. If this is to be modeled in Genesys then this potential needs to be taken into account.

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2 hours ago, lyinggod said:

As you said, harder to cast and more draining. The question is how closely are these going to be modeled in Genesys. Increasing both strain and difficulty, if applied correctly, will provide the necessary encouragement for mages to, not only not go nuts with cyberware but to avoid cyberware all together. A straight increase of difficulty and strain for each per level of brawn used might be excessive. However the question needs to be asked regarding how hard it is for a essence 1 caster to do magic, in SR, compared to an essence 6 caster. Is it appropriate to approximate the severity of casting difficulty in Genesys? If the an essence 1 caster, in SR, has a very low chance of successfully casting a spell and will pass out after only two attempts then perhaps increasing strain and difficulty per point of Brawn would be appropriate. 

I havent taken a close look at the last two editions of SR but in earlier editions, if caster has a low essence (between 1.1 and 1.9) and takes sufficiently critical damage, he can loose a point of essense resulting in his essense being less then 1. It takes at least an essence of 1 to be able to do magic at all. If this is to be modeled in Genesys then this potential needs to be taken into account.

here how magic works in 4e-5e and how cyber effect. (in short form. base on starting char ). cyber lowers the magic stat by one and lowers the cap by one(If I recall that's only 5e) for each point essence lost. if your magic =0 then are no longer magical. if your essence =0 your no long alive. 

casting spell first you pick a force for the spell. the force must be lower then your magic rating x2

the force is how many 5 or 6s you need to roll to succeed (1 dice = 1/3 of a success on avg). you roll a number of dice(d6) = to your magic skill(max of 6 in 4e, 12 in 5e)(6 is cap at the start and normal for focused char) + magic(max of 6-essence lost) 

then you need to resit drain(does not matter if spell worked or not).  drain = force of the spell +/- a number. normally combat spell are 1-3 depending on the area of the spell and most none combat spell is -. 

every success removes one point of drain you would take. the dice you roll = your magic stat + a second stat. (normally will or cha depending one type of caster. ). it is stun unless the force of the spell is over you magic stat

other effect cyber/tech  has is lots of spell (exp healing) are harder on cybered up people.

so if you had a magic stat of 1 you could still could with a roll of 13( max dice in 5e(avg 4) 7 in 4e(or starting cap) and a drain of 7-8 dice. (unlikely given you just burned all your magic.)  you could cast light spells and alot of out of combat stuff but it would not be powerful. people dont take drain alot in shadowrun from my plays in it.  your only really losing one dice but you max powerlevel you can cast at is going down by two. I think the math works out so that you would take less drain on avg. but if they both cast on the same power level the person with the lost magic is more likely to have unhanded drain. by about 1/3 of a point of drain per magic lost.

 

I would not want players to have to select force as (1. most players I have had its seems hard  time trying get their head around what force to cast and it add what I see as needless compaction. 2. does not feel very genesysy)

this is why I see  just adding strain does not model this well . that does not lower your power level just lowers how long you can cast. black dice/upgrade/downgrade works better for that. less likely to cast harder spells and more likely to end up with leftover threat(added drain). this models both parts of magic in shadowrun to me. 

 

sorry for any poor spelling I'm dyslexic

 

 

 

Edited by adairhammer

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9 hours ago, TheSapient said:

Essence is modeled by the Brawn cap on Cybernetics and by the penalties that come with them.

So I went back to double check I wasn’t misremembering but the brawn cap was dropped in Genesys for the Strain cost.

Not that you couldn’t use it anyway but just clarifying 

Edited by ESP77

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What about this?  This system would include cybernetics that count as a partial cybernetic (e.g. data jack = 0.2 cybernetic).  Cybernetics both reduce the maximum difficulty spell that can be cast, and makes casting more difficult.

Cybernetics Max Spell  Difficulty Setback
0 5 0
0.1-.9 4 0
1 4 1
1.1-1.9 3 1
2 3 2
2.1-2.9 2 2
3 2 3
3.1-3.9 1 3
4 1 4
> 4 - -

I think this allows for minor enhancements for casters, or minor casting for more enhanced characters.  Of course, to cast at all, you need to have a career that grants a Spell Skill, so the dedicated Street Samurai is not going to summon the occasional spirit.

 

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