Jump to content
APOLLO457

FFG has a lot of catching up to do...

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Yea. It is cheap and pre-painted along with being easy to get into.

Yep and they even sell it at barnes n noble, it's easier to find in stores. But moreso than anything the basics of the game are quick and easy to understand. With 40k you have to be a numbers person, if you hate numbers you're gonna hate GW games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rammstein117 said:

Yep and they even sell it at barnes n noble, it's easier to find in stores. But moreso than anything the basics of the game are quick and easy to understand. With 40k you have to be a numbers person, if you hate numbers you're gonna hate GW games.

Not to mention many GW players are in the game more for model painting than playing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DelGriffen said:

I give Legion 3 years and it starts outselling 40K. There are more former 40k players than current players. Legion will have a tighter tournament setting and you don’t have to buy codexes. 

That's a very bold claim.

 

I sincerely hope it does, even as a 40k player.  X-wing outsold it not from it being a great or better version of 40k, but it being a different approach to a tabletop miniatures game.  I don't think it will outsell it from what has been announced with wave 1 and 2, but they're a good start.  They need to follow up and give it some serious support if they plan on beating out 40k.  I think by the end of the year we'll have a better idea of where it will be because I'm curious how much support they are going to give this game.  I hope they don't just rely on it being star wars and scalping some sales from 40k.  I'm skeptical, but so far, I like what I see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

X-wing and Armada were gate-way products for the 100% non-gamer.  Like, never considered it ... not my thing ... but intellectually curious and, hey, love Star Wars.

A guy like me

Went to a local game store's X-Wing night.  Then, I saw the 40K and historical minis.  Got curious but nothing I liked.  Was thinking ... now, if they combined SW with minis in a battle format ... I could get down with that.  For me, though, that all happened in a short period of time and I got lucky, as I had no sunken cost in X-Wing or other games

Gonna say a large cross section of X-Wing players fit into my category.  Sales figures don't lie.  Meanwhile, sure a large number of 40K folks that most likely play X-Wing.  

As was said, the IP is the Star Wars universe.  It will sell.  A lot.  Of product.  And I still say their concern is not grabbing players from 40k.  It is a given hardcore gamers/hobbyist will cross over.  

Target audience is ALL the people, who had never played a miniature based game, and taking them full cycle "hobbying" ... painting and modeling ... flocking and basing ... priming and shading ... from a starting point of a game like X-Wing.  

Based on the volume of recent trending sales, FFG has their hooks in a bunch of folks addicted to their gate-way offerings and, honestly, I agree their supply chain and viable product "stuff" is not awesome but ... let's be honest ...

They are going to make some money with Legion.  Whole bunch with traditional gamers.  And a whole bunch with guys like me.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, dmguy said:

That's a very bold claim.

 

I sincerely hope it does, even as a 40k player.  X-wing outsold it not from it being a great or better version of 40k, but it being a different approach to a tabletop miniatures game.  I don't think it will outsell it from what has been announced with wave 1 and 2, but they're a good start.  They need to follow up and give it some serious support if they plan on beating out 40k.  I think by the end of the year we'll have a better idea of where it will be because I'm curious how much support they are going to give this game.  I hope they don't just rely on it being star wars and scalping some sales from 40k.  I'm skeptical, but so far, I like what I see.

I agree, but I am fully expecting 4 to six waves this year.  And new factions announced this year if not released. I think it will have six fully released factions in 3 years. It also has the advantage of GW shooting its face off at any given time since by then they will be in 9th edition! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also FFG as cultivated a huuuge Star Wars gaming community with all the table top, role playing and card games, not to mention the collectors ( huge market, look at the early Lord of the Rings sales) and painters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Dash Two said:

Target audience is ALL the people, who had never played a miniature based game, and taking them full cycle "hobbying" ... painting and modeling ... flocking and basing ... priming and shading ... from a starting point of a game like X-Wing.  

I am not too sure that FFG will have an enforceable rule that makes the hobby compulsory. I think it may come from the communities that form, when people see painted armies playing on terrain, if they like what they see and are encouraged and given positive feedback then they may "give it a try".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DelGriffen said:

Also FFG as cultivated a huuuge Star Wars gaming community with all the table top, role playing and card games, not to mention the collectors ( huge market, look at the early Lord of the Rings sales) and painters

They also helped me repurpose my old decipher star wars cards: slipped them into the backs of my armada and xwing clear card sleeves as custom backs. Just about everyone that sees the card backs with the ancient decipher cards instantly mentions it. Feels good man :P

Edited by oddeye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Gunbunnie said:

Just out of curiosity, where is everybody seeing the " on the boat " status, the product status I see on the product pages is "preorder".

Instead of going to products, go to “upcoming” and to save yourself time, filter by genre to “miniatures”. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, DelGriffen said:

I think the big advantage FFG has is you don’t have to pay for rules. For me that means a lot

Not to mention the core set and the first waves seems more reasonably priced compared to GW products.  I mean, it's not as cheap as x-wing, but I imagine that if a box of scout troopers have the same model count as storm troopers, they'll have the same cost.  Meanwhile, GW will charge you wildly different prices for boxes of similar units. (Usually having the more needed or better units being more expensive)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jcmonson said:

As I've mentioned before, releasing Veers in April and Leia in May would be a huge mistake, and has me worried about the future of the game.  Issuing orders is a core part of the game.  Giving one side two commanders while limiting the other to one severely unbalances the game, especially given that some of the starting positions split deployment areas and breakthrough.

I doubt there will be many (if any!) official tournaments in that time, and the casual environment should be able to survive fairly well for at most one month. Heck, it could be a single week, hardly long enough for many casual games anyway. It's still not NEARLY a bad of a misstep as the utter broken rules nonsense of some of the WH40k releases, and how long do some of their players wait for new codexes to "level" the playing field? Back when I last played 40k regularly, I remember the release of the Helldrake overshadowing every other model/army in the entire game. This is minor mistake at worst, and hardly THAT severe of an unbalancing, especially with a 10 point upgrade on the initial Commanders to allow them to issue orders to ANY unit on the battlefield ignoring range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DelGriffen said:

I think the big advantage FFG has is you don’t have to pay for rules. For me that means a lot

Cards aren't rules? I know that GW typically requires that you bring your codices with you, but I don't recall needing to buy multiple copies of Frag and Krak grenades to use them with my figures (maybe you do now, it's been over a decade).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Cards aren't rules? I know that GW typically requires that you bring your codices with you, but I don't recall needing to buy multiple copies of Frag and Krak grenades to use them with my figures (maybe you do now, it's been over a decade).

Yes cards can be considered rules, but you can freely and easily read the core rules of the game online prior to purchasing anything. For people trying to decide whether or not a particular game is worth their time, having an idea of how a standard turn works, and what size of force is necessary to purchase. This can help in making purchasing decisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I doubt there will be many (if any!) official tournaments in that time, and the casual environment should be able to survive fairly well for at most one month. Heck, it could be a single week, hardly long enough for many casual games anyway. It's still not NEARLY a bad of a misstep as the utter broken rules nonsense of some of the WH40k releases, and how long do some of their players wait for new codexes to "level" the playing field? Back when I last played 40k regularly, I remember the release of the Helldrake overshadowing every other model/army in the entire game. This is minor mistake at worst, and hardly THAT severe of an unbalancing, especially with a 10 point upgrade on the initial Commanders to allow them to issue orders to ANY unit on the battlefield ignoring range.

It could as well be almost 2 months actually if Veers releases in the first week of April and Leia releases at the last week of May, though that combination does seem unlikely.  The more damaging part in my mind is the appearance this gives FFG.  It, along with the release timing/hype misstep makes it look like FFG has no idea what they are doing with this game.  That will turn people away more than any actual imbalance, and has put a damper on my interest in the game.  I'm still buying but I'm no ware near as excited as I was even a month ago.  The reason this looks this way is both of those problems are/were easy fixes.  All they had to do is not hit the hype train so hard for the last couple of weeks and hold off veers until Leia is ready, a relatively short delay.

plus one range coms only works on speederbikes and I assume the ATRT

Edited by jcmonson
added the comms part

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Cards aren't rules? I know that GW typically requires that you bring your codices with you, but I don't recall needing to buy multiple copies of Frag and Krak grenades to use them with my figures (maybe you do now, it's been over a decade).

Yes and no. Taking 8th ed 40k as a  comparison example, you don't have to buy the new starter box or the core rule book if you don't wish to or go to bootleg copies on the internet if you make that choice (it will be a free dl pdf on the product page at some point around/just after release). 

Yes the cards are rules, but pretty much everthing you need to field a unit comes with a unit when you buy it.

You may need to buy more than you need or seperate cards out of a starter box if you want to play competitively, but then that's nothing new to anyone dealing with ffg games, although runewars and legion *so far* has done exceedingly well at avoiding this issue

Edited by Ralgon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

It could as well be almost 2 months actually if Veers releases in the first week of April and Leia releases at the last week of May, though that combination does seem unlikely.  The more damaging part in my mind is the appearance this gives FFG.  It, along with the release timing/hype misstep makes it look like FFG has no idea what they are doing with this game.  That will turn people away more than any actual imbalance, and has put a damper on my interest in the game.  I'm still buying but I'm no ware near as excited as I was even a month ago.  The reason this looks this way is both of those problems are/were easy fixes.  All they had to do is not hit the hype train so hard for the last couple of weeks and hold off veers until Leia is ready, a relatively short delay.

However, working in their favor is the fact that the people most acutely aware of the too early hype push for the core set are those of us who frequented FFG's webpage at lease semi-regularly already. I haven't seen any massive outcry on other forums, and staggered releases of product for armies is practically the norm in wargaming. I can't remember the last time GW or PP released a perfectly balanced new set of models/ armies. Heck, GW is in many ways the worst, as often if you don't have their latest model/army book you are underpowered, which is sometimes on purpose as it drives sales. 

Thing is, as a licensed movie product there are additional issues FFG has to overcome, and having something released a frequently as possible will be better for the game than artificially delaying product to "keep things balanced." They have a much more complicated approvals process to go through for any of their sculpts/units as they have to be approved by Disney, and in some cases the actor, or their estate.  This extra layer of approvals adds additional time between sculpting and production especially as it is not available in-house. It is better for the company to have the contracted factory be producing SOMETHING and shipping it out than to hold up production on an unrelated set of miniatures because of delays with one or two sculpts. 

Besides, if they had delayed Veers and Snowtroopers, we'd have people complaining about THAT :P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

However, working in their favor is the fact that the people most acutely aware of the too early hype push for the core set are those of us who frequented FFG's webpage at lease semi-regularly already. I haven't seen any massive outcry on other forums, and staggered releases of product for armies is practically the norm in wargaming. I can't remember the last time GW or PP released a perfectly balanced new set of models/ armies. Heck, GW is in many ways the worst, as often if you don't have their latest model/army book you are underpowered, which is sometimes on purpose as it drives sales. 

Thing is, as a licensed movie product there are additional issues FFG has to overcome, and having something released a frequently as possible will be better for the game than artificially delaying product to "keep things balanced." They have a much more complicated approvals process to go through for any of their sculpts/units as they have to be approved by Disney, and in some cases the actor, or their estate.  This extra layer of approvals adds additional time between sculpting and production especially as it is not available in-house. It is better for the company to have the contracted factory be producing SOMETHING and shipping it out than to hold up production on an unrelated set of miniatures because of delays with one or two sculpts. 

Besides, if they had delayed Veers and Snowtroopers, we'd have people complaining about THAT :P.

I guess we will just have to disagree.  I believe that the difference between 1 commander and 2 commanders will be significantly more than the difference between 2 commanders and 3 commanders.  As I said before my interest in this game was much higher a couple of weeks ago and to me these type of things are the main reason for my decreased interest.  I was prepared to be all in on this game and that isn't the case anymore.  I have the Core and wave one all on preorder, but I'm in a more wait and see after that.  It surely doesn't help that Fallout Wasteland Warfare is set to come out in May and I am super excited about that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

I guess we will just have to disagree.  I believe that the difference between 1 commander and 2 commanders will be significantly more than the difference between 2 commanders and 3 commanders.  As I said before my interest in this game was much higher a couple of weeks ago and to me these type of things are the main reason for my decreased interest.  I was prepared to be all in on this game and that isn't the case anymore.  I have the Core and wave one all on preorder, but I'm in a more wait and see after that.  It surely doesn't help that Fallout Wasteland Warfare is set to come out in May and I am super excited about that one.

Fair enough, and I think it will work out in the end, even if it is a relatively minor misstep. Again, this sort of imbalance in my opinion matters more when there is a large competitive community, and significant number of prize awarding tournaments going on in a given month.

Regardless, it is a good time to be a gamer, we are spoiled for choice! But that does make it harder for companies to keep our attention spans and therefore our dollars. Not that competition is a BAD thing for us the consumer. :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFG is very good about releasing things together. There is no way Veers and Leia will not be released together as Wave 2. There will be no difference in commanders or content. Imps won't get their own wave, and then Rebels. It's not FFGs style. We also know the tracking page is not correct, since Wave 7 of Armada was at the printer while Legion was on the boat, and yet Wave 7 just dropped today.

FFG knows what they are doing, except for their distribution network which is ****. Legion is going to be big, probably bigger than X-Wing. Just give it a few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People can love or hate the hype train (or lack of) all they want.

At the end of the day 22nd march is still in keeping with the q1they said it would be. Also, we'd propbably have better quality support video release wise by now had sorastro not been out sick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

FFG is very good about releasing things together. There is no way Veers and Leia will not be released together as Wave 2. There will be no difference in commanders or content. Imps won't get their own wave, and then Rebels. It's not FFGs style. We also know the tracking page is not correct, since Wave 7 of Armada was at the printer while Legion was on the boat, and yet Wave 7 just dropped today.

FFG knows what they are doing, except for their distribution network which is ****. Legion is going to be big, probably bigger than X-Wing. Just give it a few years.

the Spanish FFG site, which had the end of March release date up before it was announced here, has Veers and Snowtroopers listed as an April release and Leia and Fleet troopers as a May release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...