Jump to content
APOLLO457

FFG has a lot of catching up to do...

Recommended Posts

So I just need to vent and I know most of you won't agree, but I am taking the time to type this up in the hope someone from FFG sees this post and takes note of it.

I have been a huge fan of FFG products in the past with heavy investments into X-Wing, Armada, LCG, Destiny, and recently Imperial Assault. What originally drew me to Imperial Assault back in August was my play group's interest in 40K. I saw the potential to proxy a really cool Star Wars army using IA miniatures and was figuring out what that might cost when Legion was announced. I new at that moment it was a sign from on high that I must have this game and field Star Wars troopers against my friends' 40k armies. And so began the waiting...months roll by with the occasional pathetic 5 paragraph articles with 1-2 card "spoilers" and rehashing of rules already seen at GenCon...then more waiting...and just when there was the slightest sign of hope last week that warehouses were starting to see product, BAM! You've got two more months of waiting! Well at this point we have been waiting 5 MONTHS already for this game and my friends are all heavily into 40k, and I am sick of waiting for FFG to figure out how to run their PR and supply chain so today I pulled the trigger on a used 40k army.

And you know what? With the momentum that 40k has been gaining in my local community (not just my friend group) due in part to the recent rules overhaul, I just do not see how FFG will stand to compete with their current marketing and product strategy. Sure people will buy the Legion starter and try it out because it is Star Wars, and maybe the game will expand the genre to people that may not have played otherwise, but the core audience that spends real money (aka 40k players) are not going to jump ship on their investment for a pile of fleet troopers. How is FFG serious with that unit?!? I cannot think of a more pathetic rebel squad than the fleet troopers that got mowed down at the start of A New Hope. So now that we know the first expansion wave that will be released in what, August? if we are lucky? Do you know what is going to happen to that new group of players FFG creates who are going to get bored 1-2 months from release? They are going to meet a 40k guy at a tournament who will hear their frustration about the lack of content in Legion, and he is going to tell them all about this strikingly similar game called 40k and everyone is going to go buy GW product. Sure 40k has a 30+ year head start, but you don't start a fight with a 30 year old fan base by first letting everyone wait SEVEN MONTHS for the base game to show up.

If FFG seriously expects to keep the attention of miniature fans by doling out 2 sentences worth of spoilers week after week between months and months of waiting for product they are in for a rough ride.

I'll check in next year and see if this game has survived, best of luck!

/endrant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

March release date was/is a terrible idea. Secondary your right people will get bored of the inital release or turn into angry people if they spend too much cash to make 800 points off the bat only to see cool new units come out on 6 months time. Ffg need to have a really tight and organised release schedule and past history doesn't say they do.

BUT the game looks really really cool which holds a heap of sway with me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol, like a Star Wars miniature wargame released by FFG would have any problems "surviving" :D 

Star Wars attracts fans as flies to s.... And the ruleset, from what we know, seems far more fun and exciting then 40k will ever be until perhaps its next edition.

So preaching doom here is probably not a meaningful way to spend your time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an avid 40k player id like to toss in my opinion for whatever its worth. Yes waiting stinks, i know I've been waiting what? 15 years or so for new sisters of battle minis, my favorite army. Im still waiting.. GW has given them a few little tidbits over the years but now its just an internet joke more than anything else. I've waiting so long and settled by building others armies.. im tired of their crappy support and ridiculous prices.

Meanwhile i had to wait less than half a year to finally get miniatures Ive seen a hundred times and dreamt of fielding in battle. Stormtroopers.. rebels.. snowspeeders.. at-st's..  sign me up! Im in!!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speak for yourself, but the Star Wars IP alone sells this game over the 40k lore. And some of us prefer a slower release so we aren’t overwhelmed with purchases needed to play a game. That 30 year head start is also a detriment to those who have nothing and don’t want to go around investing in everything needed that’s still sort of relevant, with knowledge another edition could mess it up.

I rejected 40k when a friend tried to get me sucked in. Yet here I am trying to go for Legion. The rules sound better and more simplified, the IP is cool, and I’m still getting all the hobbyist benefits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I’m looking forward to the game and will be playing the **** out of it, he has the kernel of a point in that rant.

Its overblown and hyperbolic, but he’s not entirely wrong. FFG do really need to sort out their release schedule, how/when they market stuff and above all keep people interested. With only 2 factions they will need to keep up a decent rate of new material to stop burnout and boredom.

I mean...I’ll be getting into it big time, and sayin the game will struggle to survive is a bit laughable, but there are elements of truth there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, the constant comparing to 40k and GW is a bit unfair to FFG.

GW has been generating and selling 2 products for the last 30 years. 40k and Fantasy. (yes they dabble in other specialist games, but really).

They have a MASSIVE back catalogue of miniatures, IP, fluff and multimedia that have been introduced over DECADES. You can by a whole army from any race instantly. They have gotten really good at the supply chain of there 1 product. They know when to announce something because they know when it will be on the shelves.

FFG have only really been doing mini's since what, 2012? Each game they have is only in their first iteration of ruleset. They have just gone through a merger with another company and manufacturing and supply has not been bedded down.

This is a brand new game in a new scale. They have to generate the miniature base from scratch. It is going to take time. Everything they make now has to be vetted by the Mouse's Story group (GW doesn't have that roadblock)

Yes I am frustrated that things are taking time. yes I wish FFG would wait until they know an on shelf date before they announce it. 

BUT, FFG are the new kids on the block, shaking up the status quo with great games with fun rules accross many genres, and they have the exclusive license to the best IP in the galaxy! I am willing to give them a little rope to ensure they continue to provide us with great games

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, APOLLO457 said:

So I just need to vent and I know most of you won't agree, but I am taking the time to type this up in the hope someone from FFG sees this post and takes note of it.

I have been a huge fan of FFG products in the past with heavy investments into X-Wing, Armada, LCG, Destiny, and recently Imperial Assault. What originally drew me to Imperial Assault back in August was my play group's interest in 40K. I saw the potential to proxy a really cool Star Wars army using IA miniatures and was figuring out what that might cost when Legion was announced. I new at that moment it was a sign from on high that I must have this game and field Star Wars troopers against my friends' 40k armies. And so began the waiting...months roll by with the occasional pathetic 5 paragraph articles with 1-2 card "spoilers" and rehashing of rules already seen at GenCon...then more waiting...and just when there was the slightest sign of hope last week that warehouses were starting to see product, BAM! You've got two more months of waiting! Well at this point we have been waiting 5 MONTHS already for this game and my friends are all heavily into 40k, and I am sick of waiting for FFG to figure out how to run their PR and supply chain so today I pulled the trigger on a used 40k army.

And you know what? With the momentum that 40k has been gaining in my local community (not just my friend group) due in part to the recent rules overhaul, I just do not see how FFG will stand to compete with their current marketing and product strategy. Sure people will buy the Legion starter and try it out because it is Star Wars, and maybe the game will expand the genre to people that may not have played otherwise, but the core audience that spends real money (aka 40k players) are not going to jump ship on their investment for a pile of fleet troopers. How is FFG serious with that unit?!? I cannot think of a more pathetic rebel squad than the fleet troopers that got mowed down at the start of A New Hope. So now that we know the first expansion wave that will be released in what, August? if we are lucky? Do you know what is going to happen to that new group of players FFG creates who are going to get bored 1-2 months from release? They are going to meet a 40k guy at a tournament who will hear their frustration about the lack of content in Legion, and he is going to tell them all about this strikingly similar game called 40k and everyone is going to go buy GW product. Sure 40k has a 30+ year head start, but you don't start a fight with a 30 year old fan base by first letting everyone wait SEVEN MONTHS for the base game to show up.

If FFG seriously expects to keep the attention of miniature fans by doling out 2 sentences worth of spoilers week after week between months and months of waiting for product they are in for a rough ride.

I'll check in next year and see if this game has survived, best of luck!

/endrant

*sigh*

Some real first world problems on display here.

I hope you enjoy 40k! I'm glad there's a large base of friends you have to play with. I just find it funny to hear from all of these people that seems to know more about releasing games than FFG. I understand when a video game has an release date set and then gets pushed back its frustrating, but that's not even the case here. They gave a quarter, and then a specific date in that quarter.

There's lots of valid concerns to have over any new, expensive game:

  • Will it persist?
  • Will power creep invalidate my initial purchases?
  • Will there be a community to play with?
  • Will it be any fun?

And if you're really concerned, by all means don't buy in when it arrives. But when you complain and compare to the development and selection of a game like 40k, its just so absurd. How is that even a reasonable comparison? There's been 8 editions of 40k and how many different units? Does FFG mess up games? Sure. I still love Star Wars LCG and am disheartened to see it get replaced by Destiny (which had a poor release in terms of availability but is still super popular). But not every game is going to last as long as magic or 40k. You take the good times and experiences you had with the game and move on. Its just hubris to think that FFG is beholden to please APOLLO457 et. al. when it comes to things like how often they put out an article or what unit they chose to throw in their first wave. You don't get to define who the "core audience that spends real money" is for a game that's not even out. People are going to buy and play this game for myriad reasons: they like to paint minis, they love star wars, they like to make terrain, they want to play with their kids, they want to play with friends at a FLGS, whatever. You don't get to define to plays this for what reasons.

I'm sorry 7 months has been too long for you to wait for a game. But when and if you come back, don't expect there to be some perfectly balanced game with all of your favorite character running around everywhere. I guarantee they'll be a FotM, some unit/faction everyone is complaining about being OP, some rules issues over some card. If you play a game, you should be playing it primarily to have fun with your friends. I hope you get that experience in any game you play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Additionally, the Spanish site (which had March up for the Core before the official announcement) currently lists April and May dates for the next batch of expansions. Even if the game itself tanks, they are still making STAR WARS MINIS. There's the old West End Games rules that they can be used with, and you better believe if the rules stink, other people will modify other rules to allow people to play Star Wars ground battles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think FFG bit off a bit more than they could chew between the Runewars Miniatures game release and Legion. Runewars unfortunately has yet to see some new content at all since the last expansion came out other than Store Champs announcements. I think they need to work on a better PR presence more than one or two articles a day. 

 

1 hour ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

March release date was/is a terrible idea. Secondary your right people will get bored of the inital release or turn into angry people if they spend too much cash to make 800 points off the bat only to see cool new units come out on 6 months time. Ffg need to have a really tight and organised release schedule and past history doesn't say they do.

BUT the game looks really really cool which holds a heap of sway with me.

 

I don't think the March release date is a terrible idea provided they can get their wave 1 content out along side with the core release. The lack of content between the core set and first set of expansions (Usually containing copies of units in the core) meant you had to purchase multiple cores (If you wanted only one faction you could trade with another person) to expand your armies. It kinda killed Runewars Hype a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 7 month wait has been perfect for giving me enough time to make my Endor terrain. Come March 22nd, all I'll need to concern myself with is playing the game and painting it. Plus, I've been waiting for FFG to make a game like this since 2012, so waiting 7 months for my dream game is nothing. ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of these days people will figure out that 7.5 months from announcement to release isn't bad. As I've said in other threads, X-Wing was announced over TWO years before it was released. The demos done at the first GenCon after announcement was done with cardboard pogs instead of actual ships. The following GenCon saw actual models on the table of demos and then finally at the third GenCon after announcement, it was released. 

Armada saw a similar release schedule as Legion. Announced at GenCon, available the following March. I haven't seen Armada not take off. Sure, it isn't as big as X-Wing, but it still a pretty sizable tournament scene at GenCon. Significantly larger than AoS, 40K, Malifaux, and Guildball. It's also larger than most of the Warmachine/Hordes events in that setting. 

Also, Apollo457 doesn't want to play Legion, he wants to play 40K with Star Wars miniatures. If that's the case, then go out and buy some used WotC minis. The scale will be closer and you can probably pick them up fairly cheap. Or, do what many have done with 40K over the years when they want to play a Star Wars themed army. Paint up space marines as stormtroopers and a librarian as Darth Vader. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Additionally, the Spanish site (which had March up for the Core before the official announcement) currently lists April and May dates for the next batch of expansions. Even if the game itself tanks, they are still making STAR WARS MINIS. There's the old West End Games rules that they can be used with, and you better believe if the rules stink, other people will modify other rules to allow people to play Star Wars ground battles. 

As I've mentioned before, releasing Veers in April and Leia in May would be a huge mistake, and has me worried about the future of the game.  Issuing orders is a core part of the game.  Giving one side two commanders while limiting the other to one severely unbalances the game, especially given that some of the starting positions split deployment areas and breakthrough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

I think FFG bit off a bit more than they could chew between the Runewars Miniatures game release and Legion. Runewars unfortunately has yet to see some new content at all since the last expansion came out other than Store Champs announcements. I think they need to work on a better PR presence more than one or two articles a day. 

 

I don't think the March release date is a terrible idea provided they can get their wave 1 content out along side with the core release. The lack of content between the core set and first set of expansions (Usually containing copies of units in the core) meant you had to purchase multiple cores (If you wanted only one faction you could trade with another person) to expand your armies. It kinda killed Runewars Hype a bit.

RuneWars was pretty badly scheduled as far as expansion releases. It looks like FFG is going a long way to fix that with all of the wave 1 stuff releasing the same day. If the following releases are too far out, then a build up in points similar to what Armada did would be a good option for organized play. Hopefully, there will also be some kind of escalation campaign/event set up for Legion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While the 40K comparison seems to persist in peoples minds, it's not on a scale where certain individuals would place it and really is more about YOUR local gaming culture and not the games themselves. 

So far, most people who've heard of Legion are from existing FFG gamers, GenCon attendees (and now Adepticon), and word of mouth.. either through clubs, ads, videos, FB groups, podcasts etc. The majority of GW players who only seem to play their game(s) whether Age of Sigmar or 40K haven't heard of Legion. Not yet anyways. Or, if they have, it is very little. Usually, club wise, it's by FFG Armada/X-Wing players discussing Legion in club chat and others pick up on the conversation. And a lot of GW players could care less. It's not because Legion isn't cool looking or has Star Wars brand on it.. or even that it's another models wargame. It's because they are so heavily invested into GW.. time, money, collections, friends.. that to do something else would take a majority of that gaming circle to agree. A lot of players are still in college or freshly out.. or working out in the job force making ends meet that spare income is tied up with one maybe two different games. GW doesn't just price people OUT of their hobby.. .they also price people INTO the hobby and make them stay. 

40K is not a game that is a target to overthrow with another. It simply won't. The only way it will degrade is by the hands of GW themselves. 7th edition was hurting it.. thus 8th came out.

I am a Warhammer Fantasy now Age of Sigmar player since 4th edition back in the very early 90's. I have large collections.. 17 armies, 14 tables worth of terrain, and even a couple 40K armies. I am obviously heavily invested into GW. But I dislike 40K.  The models are, for the most part, of great quality and appeal. But I HATE the setting. Grim Dark is not my thing. The setting is terrible and uninteresting to me. In my local area, 40K is the popular models game.. where you can show up to any of the local game stores and find 5-10 players on any given day. Age of Sigmar is vastly growing.. but not anywhere near the level of 40K.. not here anyways. Legion will be the same difficulty.. if not more. But it is MY sci fi game. It's the one I am most interested in and I will be introducing it to my local area. Demos. Game nights. Hopefully a league. Excitement and commitment builds the same. Make that a regular time per day/week/month etc and you will attract players. This game isn't out yet and people don't have the patience to wait... dear God what's going to happen when they take it to there store and get others to play? Give up there too? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand the frustration about the game not coming out.  Heck, I want the game in my hands now.  I want to be playing it with my family RIGHT NOW and it's frustrating that, unlike a video game, that when it does come out, I won't be able to jump right in and play it.  That's the nature of Tabletop games.  On the other hand, I've been spending my time preparing for a board for the game, so that when the day comes and I can have Vader field his stormies against Luke, I'll have a feast for the eyes and have a spectacle in my game.

 

THAT SAID, I'm also a 40k player and I've been slowly (very slowly) painting up an Ork army.  Whatever terrain and buildings I make for Star Wars I can use for 40k (it'll be mismatched, but w/e).  So, terrain building is how I've been spending my time waiting that keeps me hyped and constructive.  I really do get where you're coming from and if things do shape up the way you're talking about, that would be a tragedy for Legion, which, so far, seems like a great game.  I trust it won't end up like that and FFG is working hard to do this right and learning from any and all mistakes made by their last miniatures game.

 

And Fleet Troopers are great.  Glad they're announced.  Wanted them from day 1.  I would have preferred them over the units we saw on Endor.  They are more of the iconic rebel uniform to me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think everyone is disappointed that the release is now 7 weeks away, when the various clues from FFG placed it a lot sooner. I do wish FFG would just announce these big event type of games with 6-8 weeks notice, rather than 6-8 months.

The strength of a game largely comes about because of the people playing it. The bigger the group you play with the better, even if this game was the best miniatures game on the planet right now, if you have no one to play it with you have wasted your time and money. Choosing to play 40k in a large group of friends makes perfectly good sense.

That said I have previously played 40k for about 15 years and grew tired of it, I then played Flames of War for about 12 years and dabbled in Armada for a good time. Armada mostly struggled because my play group was rather small and once Destiny came out we just slowly found Armada harder to make time for. My play group for Destiny is about 12 while Armada was 2 and no matter how good the game is, playing the same opponent over and over isn't a great long term process for fun. So for me, 40k is a game of the past, I enjoyed the game, the hobby and my time there but I have moved on.

However, I enjoy painting, enough that I have offered to paint two friends kit as they are no longer able. I also enjoy building terrain and have a good supply of kit already to go. So I am prepared to wait out this 7 weeks because this all scratches my many itches that Destiny doesn't. I am also, in talking with people I play destiny with looking at possibly having 4-8 opponents at the outset. The game looks healthy for the moment.

I also like what I have seen of the rules, this looks like a game that is easy to learn and hard to master.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well GW announced the Necromunda new board tiles are 40 bucks. If you think the grass is greener over there...well I don't know what to say. 40 bucks for cheap card with print on it...holy ****. Plus if you're not playing a power armor faction, you can forget about getting any substantial model releases anytime soon. Necron codex coming up....1 new plastic HQ model...oh joy. 

 

I hope Legion succeeds cause competition is good for the hobby, someone needs to be a threat to GW otherwise their prices will continue to get out of hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the real money is in former GW players. The ones that own 4 40k armies, 3 fantasy armies and about 1000 Lord of the rings figures. The ones tired of shelling out 400 dollars in books every 2 years. These are also the guys that have bought everything for x-wing, Armada and Imperial assault and plan to buy everything for legion. There is a reason x-wing outsells 40k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, DelGriffen said:

I think the real money is in former GW players. The ones that own 4 40k armies, 3 fantasy armies and about 1000 Lord of the rings figures. The ones tired of shelling out 400 dollars in books every 2 years. These are also the guys that have bought everything for x-wing, Armada and Imperial assault and plan to buy everything for legion. There is a reason x-wing outsells 40k

Yea. It is cheap and pre-painted along with being easy to get into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...